Help with Speaker Decision Please

[larrye]

I currently own a 70s vintage pair of Ohm-H speakers, which I have never been happy with. I am thinking about a system upgrade and anticipate purchase of something like a Yamaha 1400, or comparable NAD or Denon. I am interested in speaker recommendations. I would like to begin with a pair of new floor-standing speakers that would pair up well with these receivers ... but ... I need more bass separation (but not necessarily more bass volume). Can I do this without a sub, and if so, what would your recommendations be? If I will need a sub, what would your recommendations be, and would you still recommend the same speakers (if going with a sub, does one still need the same caliber of main speakers ... or can one maybe go back to bookshelf speakers)? I would say that my price range is probably $700-$1000 for the pair ... and $700-1300 if a sub is needed.

My listening patterns and tastes: wide variety of music ... little bit of jazz, little bit of show music, but I would say 80-90% classic rock, current rock, and current day stuff like Creed, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Counting Crows, Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind, etc (no rap). I live in an 800 sq. ft. apartment.

Thanks for your help!

[RGA]

There are tons of speakers you could buy naturally. Are you going to build a home theater or just listen to 2 channel music?

I'm not a huge fan of integrating a sub...it takes two subwoofers to properly integrate the stereo image...otherwise it's not quite right. Most of the time they are pain to set-up right requiring you to buy a few meters and a parametric eq. Both will run another $100.00 or so dollars.

Not to disuade you on subs though. You can always buy one and if you're happy super...if not quite happy you can always add a second sub later on...so that's pretty good.

If you want two speakers and 2 channel...The Audio Note AN K Spe standmounts would be my pick...obviously since I own them. I doubt you'll find a better standmount this size or smaller at doing anything as well. You're looking at $1950.00US but soundhounds has em for around $1100.00US. Require little power, can play loud clean and offer excellent bass dynamics and detail. they require good quality high mass stands between 20 and 22 inch high. The AN E /D is usually $2700.00US but soundhounds...who got all of last years stock has em for 2k Cdn...they will ship. You may not be familiar with the Audio Note name...apparently they are now the second biggest audio manufacturer in Great Britain after B&W. They are most noted for their amplifiers and DA Converters which run over a hundred thousand dollars. Their top end speaker reach to $35kUS. The AN E D is a full range standmount but I have not heard it. They are internally upgradeable which protects your investment a bit. The higher models use better crossovers, wiring cabinet bracing, drivers etc.

http://www.stereotimes.com/speak071701.shtm
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=475

I would suggest you find a place to hear them if you like them go to soundhounds' website. http://www.soundhounds.com/

If you're thinking to save a bit of money and looks are critical or you intend to go surround sound B&W, Mission, Wharfedale, Paradigm, Linn, Boston Acoustics, Energy, Klipsch etc all have competant offerrings. But I ould go with standmounts in your budget.

A lot of floorstanders in this price range exhibit too much box resonance for my liking.

[larrye]

There are tons of speakers you could buy naturally. Are you going to build a home theater or just listen to 2 channel music?

I'm not a huge fan of integrating a sub...it takes two subwoofers to properly integrate the stereo image...otherwise it's not quite right. Most of the time they are pain to set-up right requiring you to buy a few meters and a parametric eq. Both will run another $100.00 or so dollars.

Not to disuade you on subs though. You can always buy one and if you're happy super...if not quite happy you can always add a second sub later on...so that's pretty good.

If you want two speakers and 2 channel...The Audio Note AN K Spe standmounts would be my pick...obviously since I own them. I doubt you'll find a better standmount this size or smaller at doing anything as well. You're looking at $1950.00US but soundhounds has em for around $1100.00US. Require little power, can play loud clean and offer excellent bass dynamics and detail. they require good quality high mass stands between 20 and 22 inch high. The AN E /D is usually $2700.00US but soundhounds...who got all of last years stock has em for 2k Cdn...they will ship. You may not be familiar with the Audio Note name...apparently they are now the second biggest audio manufacturer in Great Britain after B&W. They are most noted for their amplifiers and DA Converters which run over a hundred thousand dollars. Their top end speaker reach to $35kUS. The AN E D is a full range standmount but I have not heard it. They are internally upgradeable which protects your investment a bit. The higher models use better crossovers, wiring cabinet bracing, drivers etc.

http://www.stereotimes.com/speak071701.shtm
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=475

I would suggest you find a place to hear them if you like them go to soundhounds' website. http://www.soundhounds.com/

If you're thinking to save a bit of money and looks are critical or you intend to go surround sound B&W, Mission, Wharfedale, Paradigm, Linn, Boston Acoustics, Energy, Klipsch etc all have competant offerrings. But I ould go with standmounts in your budget.

A lot of floorstanders in this price range exhibit too much box resonance for my liking.

Thanks! What I'd like to do is to start with 2 new ones (and possibly a sub), and then add enough for HT at a later date, if possible. The Audio Notes sound nice, but I think they are a bit steep pricewise (although I'll look into any discounts here in the NE US). And I will be sure to listen to anything I consider, of course. Any specific recommendations with B&W, Mission, Wharfedale, Paradigm, Linn, Boston Acoustics, Energy, Klipsch?

[RGA]

Thanks! What I'd like to do is to start with 2 new ones (and possibly a sub), and then add enough for HT at a later date, if possible. The Audio Notes sound nice, but I think they are a bit steep pricewise (although I'll look into any discounts here in the NE US). And I will be sure to listen to anything I consider, of course. Any specific recommendations with B&W, Mission, Wharfedale, Paradigm, Linn, Boston Acoustics, Energy, Klipsch?

I'm not a huge fan of speakers using metal tweeters because they don't quite integrate well. The characteristic of the materials are not even close...so when I listen to an acoustic instrument that goes from the midrange to the treble like a violin or cello it sounds hard or off...which is why for classical music, jazz and female volals they're often totally irritating to me. Now I don't want to generalize because some with metal tweeters do it a LOT better than others but even with reference monitors in the $1300.00 range from PMC you still get that "metallic" sound. Some will argue this to be silly because you assume that metal speakers will have a matalic sound but i can't think of a better term - they sound harder or ringy.

Many of these companies employ lots of advertising telling you about detail and extension, the latter is true, the former is usually self noise generated by the tweeter. B&W incorporates a long tube to capture the distortion and later release it. Itworks best in their higher end models of course and less well in their lower end models.

JM Labs actually does it very well as well. Misison(not the M50 series which is arocious) use soft domes and are a very good and very respected budget territory speaker. They are a little laid back and less of a rocker...but most of their speakers are under $500.00-$700.00. They don't get much talk because they are not a WOW factor speaker. Meaning they don't have extended in your face kind of highs that are popular in north america(like Klipsch). I would check out their M70 series.

If home theater is critical then you want the front three speakers to match(generally easier if from the same brand). The B&W DM 602S3 is probably the safest bet for reasonable money ~$550.00US. You could get these and a matching Center channel and then add a set of DM 600S3 or DM 303 for the rear(These will be around $250-$300) The center channel I would not skimp on and would go for the better one. The entire package would be about 1k without the sub.

But if you buy them all together i would push for a 20% discount. Don't pay sticker price. $800.00 US I ould expect the 602S3, 303 in rear, LCR 600S3 center. Their subs are supposed to be quite good as well. I would expect the whole thing to be under $1250.00US.

And you're not sacrificing sound quality for music too much. The 602S3 is one of the best all-rounders for the money its own right. It is a big standmount that offers exceptional bass depth a solid midrange and nice highs though a little unrefinement...but that's true of every and all speaker in this price range.

If B&W is good enough for George Lucas then it should be good enough for most people(though that is marketing of course but still...)

http://www.bwspeakers.com/

Reviews of 600 series http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.reviews/Label/Range%20600%20Series%203

[Woochifer]

It really comes down to preference. I originally targeted floorstanders in your same price range, but found that most of the speakers in that range had box resonance problems which muddies up the imaging and creates imbalances in the overall sound. Most standmounts don't have box resonance problems. The standmounts lose a little bit of bass extension, but gain a lot of imaging clarity, and placement flexibility.

For what you listen to, I would suggest the B&W DM603 or 602, the Paradigm Monitor 7 or 9 and Studio 20 or 40, the Energy C-3 or C-5, the Klipsch RF-35 or RB-35, the Boston VR-2, the Polk LSi7, the JBL S-series, the Vandersteen 1c, and Infinity's IL series. That's by no means a definitive list, just a few in your price range to start with. They each have a different sound, and are a mix of bookshelf and floorstanding models. Pick out a few test discs that you are familiar with and represent what you listen to, and stick with them throughout all of the evaluations. If possible, try and listen to your favorite speakers at more than one dealer since the room acoustics of the demo room can heavily influence how the speakers sound. And lastly, arrange to borrow the speakers that you like best so that you can listen to them at home with your receiver and your room acoustics.

Don't get bogged down by what other people tell you that you should like. One person's clarity and detail is another person's brightness and harshness, one person's naturalness is another person's blandness, one person's irritating speaker is another's bliss, etc. Go with what sounds right and best for how you intend to use your speakers. A lot of audiophile speakers sound great with remote-miked acoustic music, but can't reproduce the kick of a trap drum or the impact of an amplified instrument with any kind of authority.

Also, if you plan to add home theatre components like the center and surround speakers, be sure to listen for how well they match with the mains. You'd be surprised at how much variability there is. Just as an example, Bose, Boston, and B&W have in the past produced center speakers that did not match their mains very well.

[Geoffcin]

I currently own a 70s vintage pair of Ohm-H speakers, which I have never been happy with. I am thinking about a system upgrade and anticipate purchase of something like a Yamaha 1400, or comparable NAD or Denon. I am interested in speaker recommendations. I would like to begin with a pair of new floor-standing speakers that would pair up well with these receivers ... but ... I need more bass separation (but not necessarily more bass volume). Can I do this without a sub, and if so, what would your recommendations be? If I will need a sub, what would your recommendations be, and would you still recommend the same speakers (if going with a sub, does one still need the same caliber of main speakers ... or can one maybe go back to bookshelf speakers)? I would say that my price range is probably $700-$1000 for the pair ... and $700-1300 if a sub is needed.

My listening patterns and tastes: wide variety of music ... little bit of jazz, little bit of show music, but I would say 80-90% classic rock, current rock, and current day stuff like Creed, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Counting Crows, Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind, etc (no rap). I live in an 800 sq. ft. apartment. Thanks for your help!

Wow, upgrading from 70's era Ohms!

I always liked Ohm speakers, way back when a friend had a pair that must have been like your model. Then I got to hear the big Walsh 5's. The first time I heard a pair of the Ohm Walsh speakers I was floored! The bass in particular was incredible and tight. I remember it being "gut punching" too. If I had my way, I would have a set of Ohm Walsh 5's now, but I simply have too much stuff already.

OK, the good news. Ohm will give you up to 25% of $895 in credit if you send your old 70's vintage speakers back to Ohm! I know it's hard to believe, but this is a company that not only still makes replacement parts for your old speakers, it offers an upgrade for them too. Not your average company I would say.

If I were you I would definitely check out the Ohm Walsh 100 mkII. It might just be what your looking for.

[larrye]

Interesting info on Ohm ... Thanks ... I'll be sure to check them out. But I sure don't like the bass on the ones I have.

I note with interest that no one has mentioned Infinity. Are they just not as prevalent in the industry as they used to be? When I was shopping in the 70s, they sounded great!

[spacedeckman]

The Canadians have invaded the speaker business. All the hot names of the 70s have essentially become charicatures of themselves. Infinity keeps trying to get back into the more upscale speaker business, but hasn't been able to do so for the past nearly 20 years. Infinity, JBL, Polk, Boston and a number of others have concentrated on making speakers for chain stores. Chain stores often have different needs, but they buy a lot of stuff.

In the independent dealers, these brands have been replaced by Energy, Mirage, Paradigm, PSB, and I guess you could add B&W to that since it is owned by a Canadian too. Athena is another Canadian brand that is now in Best Buy. It is a sister brand to Energy and Mirage (API).

The good news is that tweeters have generally gotten much better. The bad news is there are a lot of bad speakers out there, and some of them are really expensive. Best advice is to go out and listen. Speakers are still the most fun product to evaluate. Check out the Canadians, eh!