New Poll. Most "Groundbreaking" Sci Fi Film. [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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Worf101
05-12-2005, 07:22 AM
You all know em, you've all watched em (probably a million times) so now it's time to rate em. Most groundbreaking SciFi Films. I will include Monster Movies in here because of the Sci Fi element of "giant" monsters and artificial life...

Let the games begin.

Da Worfster

Worf101
05-12-2005, 07:29 AM
I voted for "King Kong". It was so realistic people fainted. It ran for decades. Stop action done so painstakingly well that it shines as a beacon to this every day. Hell, Kong took on the the NY City Subway system.... and won!!! Nothing could rival it for decades afterwards...

Da Worfster :cool:

shokhead
05-12-2005, 07:34 AM
Anything with Ray Harryhausen .

topspeed
05-12-2005, 10:25 AM
Picking between 2001 and Star Wars is tough. I guess I went with SW because it really blew open the possibilities of not only blending genres (sci fi / western / action) but also merchandising. Until SW came out, no other movie generated so much profit from outside licensing and merchandising. If you were old enough to see the first one in the theaters, you had a Star Wars toy somewhere. SW3 is about to be released and you can't swing a cat without hitting something plastered with Darth Vader's visage staring back at ya!

Woochifer
05-12-2005, 10:45 AM
You want "groundbreaking"? How about going all the way to the beginning?

I would put Georges Melies' 1902 silent short of A Trip To The Moon on any list of groundbreaking sci-fi by virtue of the its status as the first science fiction movie. Probably the most famous single shot of the early silent film era is the iconic image of the space capsule poking into the "eye" of the moon. Looking at it now, it's a somewhat offbeat and goofy movie. But, considering the primitive technology and how unprecedented much of this movie's visuals and story elements were for its time, this probably broke more ground than any other sci-fi movie.

http://www.filmsite.org/posters/voya.gif

Among the movies on your list, I would put 2001: A Space Odyssey at the top of the list because it had that incredible level of abstraction in the storytelling, yet remained strangely "down-to-earth" in how it made the future and its advanced technology seem accessible and even mundane (the Pan-Am spaceflights, the AT&T toll charges for a space phone, the human flaws with HAL, etc.).

Plus, I would put the visual effects in this movie against just about any of the CGI extravaganzas we see today. The level of detail involved in how it all looked and the clear effort involved in making it seem realistic is very evident (what other movie acknowledges that outer space is a vacuum and therefore silent?).

kexodusc
05-12-2005, 10:49 AM
I went with 2001 just because of the era in which it was made, but now that I remember the "making of Star Wars" stuff I've seen, I think I have to agree Star Wars was the most unlikely movie of the bunch.

I certainly can't think of any movies SINCE Star Wars that broke more ground...

Worf101
05-12-2005, 10:51 AM
You want "groundbreaking"? How about going all the way to the beginning?

I would put Georges Melies' 1902 silent short of A Trip To The Moon on any list of groundbreaking sci-fi by virtue of the its status as the first science fiction movie. Probably the most famous single shot of the early silent film era is the iconic image of the space capsule poking into the "eye" of the moon. Looking at it now, it's a somewhat offbeat and goofy movie. But, considering the primitive technology and how unprecedented much of this movie's visuals and story elements were for its time, this probably broke more ground than any other sci-fi movie.

http://www.filmsite.org/posters/voya.gif

And I almost put it on the list BUT, to paraphrase a great Chris Rock routine,.... " want to have a conversation about film history??? Don't talk to "new P***y she ain't seen a movie older than last week!!!!" I just figured so few of the folks on this board would have seen this short, complete with girls from the Folles Bregerre pushing the capsule in the gun, as to make it a wasted pick. I almost put in "Metropolis" or the "The Shape of Things to Come" but left them both off for the same reason.

Da Worfster

Woochifer
05-12-2005, 11:01 AM
And I almost put it on the list BUT, to paraphrase a great Chris Rock routine,.... " want to have a conversation about film history??? Don't talk to "new P***y she ain't seen a movie older than last week!!!!" I just figured so few of the folks on this board would have seen this short, complete with girls from the Folles Bregerre pushing the capsule in the gun, as to make it a wasted pick. I almost put in "Metropolis" or the "The Shape of Things to Come" but left them both off for the same reason.

Da Worfster

I hear 'ya, but you'd be surprised as to what people have seen, or at least known about. Smashing Pumpkins did a send up of A Trip to the Moon on one of their music videos, and Queen's video for "Radio Ga-Ga" was transposed with Metropolis. Iconic films like those aren't necessarily seen in their original form, but are so engrained in pop culture that their influence remains significant.

And, if anyone wants to see A Trip to the Moon, it's actually included as a bonus feature on the Around The World in 80 Days DVD.

20to20K
05-12-2005, 11:11 AM
But I'd include both "Metropolis" by Fritz Lange and "Things to Come" by HG Wells
on the list as well. Both groundbreaking with unprescedented looks into the future.

Based on your list...I'll choose 2001.

eisforelectronic
05-12-2005, 11:40 AM
I'm gonna do a complete 180 on all of you and vote for Star Wars. 2001? There weren't even any lasers.

Kam
05-12-2005, 12:50 PM
but would like to add just one more, if not for groundbreaking, for its unfluence. the original 1931 Frankenstein. this had an incredible influence on stories from this point onwards, and pretty much any sci-fi (including star wars) has issues brought up here. oh and the invisible man too, pretty cool effects before this digital age. never thought having an unlimited amount of resources, and having everything you wanted was a good way for creativity to thrive. personally think you can come up with better stuff having to work through/around limitations. (for e.g. original star wars vs. sp ed)

on your list, i voted for 2001 though. tough flip between that and star wars, but went with 2001 because it was groundbreaking in both its sci-fi and filmmaking aspect (not that star wars wasnt, but in a different way). who else would dare put about 30-40mins of footage without a single word of dialogue, let alone that incredibly long epilepsy-inducing segment as bowman passes through the lights, and then about 30 mins of no dialogue to start the movie! about half the movie has no dialogue at all! pretty crazy stuff. but a good kind of crazy, like a peter jackson kind of crazy, not a michael jackson kind of crazy.

peace
k2

dean_martin
05-12-2005, 02:41 PM
For in-depth articles and interviews with key players covering sci-fi films (and other cool stuff) from the Silent Era through the 70's, I highly recommend subscribing to FilmFax magazine. Here's a link:

http://www.filmfax.com/

I'm impressed with the references to the Golden Age. I guess we're not all "New P***y" as Worf so eloquently put it. Some of us are in fact as old as dirt.

cam
05-12-2005, 06:50 PM
I voted for "King Kong". It was so realistic people fainted. It ran for decades. Stop action done so painstakingly well that it shines as a beacon to this every day. Hell, Kong took on the the NY City Subway system.... and won!!! Nothing could rival it for decades afterwards...

Da Worfster :cool:
I picked King Kong also. I think that movie came out in 79 which put me at 8 years old. All I remember was wow. Now normally you can trick an 8 year old by putting a guy in an ape suit and saying it is real, but I have seen this movie many times as an adult and it still looks like a real giant ape terrorizing New York. Awesome movie.

shokhead
05-13-2005, 06:09 AM
I thought we were talking about the first KK? :confused: :confused:

dean_martin
05-13-2005, 02:09 PM
I thought we were talking about the first KK? :confused: :confused:

When I read cam's post, I genuinely thought that it was the best bit of subtle humour I've seen around here in a while, especially when you figure in that avatar!

cam
05-13-2005, 05:25 PM
I thought we were talking about the first KK? :confused: :confused:
The first KK I have seen. It came out in 1933 or very close to it. Nothing ground breaking about it. Nothing.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
05-14-2005, 11:12 AM
The first KK I have seen. It came out in 1933 or very close to it. Nothing ground breaking about it. Nothing.

Cam!! I am surprised at this statement man. This movie began it all when it comes to stop action motion. Before this movie there was none better at this technology. I imagine you would have to put yourself back in the 1930's to understand how realistic it seemed to movie goers then, to us now it looks kinda hookey.

For me;
1. Metropolis has to be the most groundbreaking sci fi film of all time.
2. Star Wars is next as it brought Sci Fi back into the mainstream, had next generation visual effects and soundtrack.
3. Dark City for its composition, use of shadows, and concept.

cam
05-14-2005, 11:57 AM
Cam!! I am surprised at this statement man. This movie began it all when it comes to stop action motion. Before this movie there was none better at this technology. I imagine you would have to put yourself back in the 1930's to understand how realistic it seemed to movie goers then, to us now it looks kinda hookey.

For me;
1. Metropolis has to be the most groundbreaking sci fi film of all time.
2. Star Wars is next as it brought Sci Fi back into the mainstream, had next generation visual effects and soundtrack.
3. Dark City for its composition, use of shadows, and concept.
Laurel and Hardy was more ground breaking then the original Kong. HE HE HE!

shokhead
05-14-2005, 03:18 PM
Well,they were funnier then you. LOL :D

Worf101
05-14-2005, 08:36 PM
You, Cam are hereby thumped for illegal punnage.. foul humor and.... general silliness...
Off with his haid, his haid I say... You had me goin' for about 2 seconds then I smiled, chuckled and let it go. I was inches from a foul mouthed tirade (which is what you probably wanted me to do) when I figured both my legs and my dangle were being "pulled"...

Da Worfster :D

risabet
05-14-2005, 09:06 PM
Besides using a great piece of music by Strauss, 2001 represented a new level in the use of theme and narrative in the presentation of the future, IMO.

cam
05-15-2005, 08:00 AM
You, Cam are hereby thumped for illegal punnage.. foul humor and.... general silliness...
Off with his haid, his haid I say... You had me goin' for about 2 seconds then I smiled, chuckled and let it go. I was inches from a foul mouthed tirade (which is what you probably wanted me to do) when I figured both my legs and my dangle were being "pulled"...

Da Worfster :D
Sorry Worf, when I checked off KK I had forgotten about the original black and white from the 30's. You're not going to tear apart a city or anything are you?

RGA
05-15-2005, 02:37 PM
personally i would have Blade Runner on the list somewhere as SCI-FI. Star Wars is basically Cowboys and Indians in Space.

Worf101
05-16-2005, 06:52 AM
personally i would have Blade Runner on the list somewhere as SCI-FI. Star Wars is basically Cowboys and Indians in Space.

There's a shot across the bow if ever I saw one.... Yipes... as Worfster turns off TV, pulls out popcorn and prepares to watch the bloodshed...

Da Worfster

eisforelectronic
05-17-2005, 05:03 AM
personally i would have Blade Runner on the list somewhere as SCI-FI. Star Wars is basically Cowboys and Indians in Space.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :confused: :confused: :mad: :mad: :(

20to20K
05-17-2005, 07:46 AM
personally i would have Blade Runner on the list somewhere as SCI-FI. Star Wars is basically Cowboys and Indians in Space.

I figured if I kept reading these posts I'd find one by RGA that I agree with! :D

Hawkeye
05-17-2005, 08:22 AM
Have you all forgotten "Dark Star" ?? - John Carpenter's feature debut starring a cast of relative unknowns. Where else can you see an alien beachball? Groundbreaking? Well, maybe not. Side-splitting? Possibly!!

MomurdA
05-20-2005, 02:14 PM
I always thought it was Americans vs British IN SPACE

JoeE SP9
05-20-2005, 03:09 PM
Perhaps because I saw it first run on the big screen years ago I voted for Forbidden Planet. How could you go wrong with "The Tempest" in space. Walter Pidgeon, Leslie Nielson and Ann Francis. Throw in monsters from the Id and you have it all. Unlike most Sci Fi movie watchers I actually read SciFi novels and short stories. Therefore I know that Blade Runner was Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep by Phillip K. Dick and Total recall was I Can Get It For You Wholesale by the same author. The real problem is haveing read the novel or short story I know how inadaquate the transfer to film is when comparing it to the printed version. Battlefield Earth may be one of the worst movies ever but the book is extremely good. Starship Troopers and other Heinlein books had a lot to do with my life attitudes. Unfortunately only The Puppet Masters came out well as a movie. The real problem is that Hollywood writers for the most part have no idea what good science fiction is. The Star Wars movies are not particularly good science fiction. WWII in space with the force as the spirit of good is kind of juvenile. All in all the movies on the selection list were a good choice. All of them are in my collection. Those that were first published in print are also in my personal library which numbers about 3K plus books.

Worf101
05-20-2005, 08:14 PM
Perhaps because I saw it first run on the big screen years ago I voted for Forbidden Planet. How could you go wrong with "The Tempest" in space. Walter Pidgeon, Leslie Nielson and Ann Francis. Throw in monsters from the Id and you have it all. Unlike most Sci Fi movie watchers I actually read SciFi novels and short stories. Therefore I know that Blade Runner was Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep by Phillip K. Dick and Total recall was I Can Get It For You Wholesale by the same author. The real problem is haveing read the novel or short story I know how inadaquate the transfer to film is when comparing it to the printed version. Battlefield Earth may be one of the worst movies ever but the book is extremely good. Starship Troopers and other Heinlein books had a lot to do with my life attitudes. Unfortunately only The Puppet Masters came out well as a movie. The real problem is that Hollywood writers for the most part have no idea what good science fiction is. The Star Wars movies are not particularly good science fiction. WWII in space with the force as the spirit of good is kind of juvenile. All in all the movies on the selection list were a good choice. All of them are in my collection. Those that were first published in print are also in my personal library which numbers about 3K plus books.

I've read Heinlein, Asimov, EE Doc Smith, LeQuin, Bradbury, Delaney and scores more that I could mention and you're right, Hollywood doesn't know how to make literate Science or Speculative Fiction. Doesn't keep them from trying though. I've read Starship Troopers many times and wish that some of the authors ideas about "citizenship" and how it's earned, were in use today...

Da Worfster

Sir Terrence the Terrible
05-21-2005, 09:21 AM
I voted for Star Wars just to make our resident klingon mad(Da first one damnit!). Chose Star Wars for several reason. It changed the way movies were made, It combined several styles of story telling together(western, SciFi, serial), sound became more important, and therefore theaters hade to upgrade their sound system.

The use of matte blocking, minatures, stop action motion techniques, puppets, and live action were used extensively as was early uses of blue screen technology.

Star Wars IMO was a breakthrough film.

JoeE SP9
05-21-2005, 09:23 AM
I've read Heinlein, Asimov, EE Doc Smith, LeQuin, Bradbury, Delaney and scores more that I could mention and you're right, Hollywood doesn't know how to make literate Science or Speculative Fiction. Doesn't keep them from trying though. I've read Starship Troopers many times and wish that some of the authors ideas about "citizenship" and how it's earned, were in use today...

Da WorfsterI have performed my "service" and I vote regularly. I couldn't agree more about Heinlein's ideas concerning citizenship. I also like his ideas about crime and punishment.

eisforelectronic
05-21-2005, 09:58 AM
Perhaps because I saw it first run on the big screen years ago I voted for Forbidden Planet. How could you go wrong with "The Tempest" in space. Walter Pidgeon, Leslie Nielson and Ann Francis. Throw in monsters from the Id and you have it all. Unlike most Sci Fi movie watchers I actually read SciFi novels and short stories. Therefore I know that Blade Runner was Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep by Phillip K. Dick and Total recall was I Can Get It For You Wholesale by the same author. The real problem is haveing read the novel or short story I know how inadaquate the transfer to film is when comparing it to the printed version. Battlefield Earth may be one of the worst movies ever but the book is extremely good. Starship Troopers and other Heinlein books had a lot to do with my life attitudes. Unfortunately only The Puppet Masters came out well as a movie. The real problem is that Hollywood writers for the most part have no idea what good science fiction is. The Star Wars movies are not particularly good science fiction. WWII in space with the force as the spirit of good is kind of juvenile. All in all the movies on the selection list were a good choice. All of them are in my collection. Those that were first published in print are also in my personal library which numbers about 3K plus books.

I too am a reader of SF books, although admittedly not much as of late. I for one believe movies and books do not translate well and should not be expected to. They are simply too different. A book takes one skilled indiviual to create it, a movie takes hundreds, sometimes thousands. You may take several hours or days to read a book, a movie is viewed in 90-300 minutes. A writer may spend his entire life on a single book or he may write hundreds, a movie has very specific time and money constraints. If a writer takes too long or the publisher decides to shelf a book, thousands of dollars may be lost. If the same happens to a studio, millions are lost.

Starship Troopers is really one of the best examples out there. I for one loved the book as a child and also enjoyed the movie quite a bit. Part of the reason I was able to enjoy the movie was lack of specific expectation. I do expect the basic events to be the same, but the details I expect to change to fit time, money and even artistic decision. So I expected Rico to join up right out of school and to eventually take over the Roughnecks, I could care less if Flores was male or female. I think the rare occasions when we do get a very accurate book to film adaption it is more attibuted to the original writing of the book rather than the screenwriting or directing. I think Tom Clancy's style of writing more closely resembles a movie, so less needs to be done to change it. A great deal of what's scary in a stephen King book ends up looking very silly on the big screen. But then again Tom Clancy writes about a lot of existing hardware and situations, Stephen King writes about the strange and supernatural.

Star Wars was never meant to be anything more than Juvenile, nobody calls Harry Potter that.

shokhead
05-21-2005, 10:53 AM
Thats a joke right ,HP not juvenile.

eisforelectronic
05-21-2005, 12:11 PM
Thats a joke right ,HP not juvenile.

Not that it's not, but that it's expected.

Kam
05-21-2005, 01:48 PM
Not that it's not, but that it's expected.

Woh... woh woh woh WOH! Hold on....What??? Harry Potter is NOT juvenile?

eisforelectronic
05-22-2005, 05:05 AM
Woh... woh woh woh WOH! Hold on....What??? Harry Potter is NOT juvenile?

uh oh, Did I just start something?

Worf101
05-23-2005, 06:32 AM
I have performed my "service" and I vote regularly. I couldn't agree more about Heinlein's ideas concerning citizenship. I also like his ideas about crime and punishment.
I also did three years Regular Army and I've voted since 18. I agree with much of Heinlein's political and social premises as laid down in this book but I doubt if many others do. I got into a spirited debate in this forum about "service" after 911 when many an "armchair hussar" was calling for war everywhere on all fronts but neither they nor their children were ready to go themselves...

Da Worfster :rolleyes:

Worf101
05-23-2005, 06:35 AM
uh oh, Did I just start something?
SW was meant to be juvenile and most folks with a little bit of sense would call it anything BUT juvenile... HP on the other hand has never pretended to be anything BUT a juvenile exercise soooo no arguement.

Da Worfster

eqm
05-23-2005, 06:52 AM
Technically, this is Juvenile. :p

Kam
05-23-2005, 10:48 AM
SW was meant to be juvenile and most folks with a little bit of sense would call it anything BUT juvenile... HP on the other hand has never pretended to be anything BUT a juvenile exercise soooo no arguement.

Da Worfster

Woh woh woh woh woh! WOH! Worfster... c'mon... HP was juvenile? you mean... all that angst and tears i've shed over those movies... all the heartache and sleepless nights they have caused... all the pain... all the suffering... ok.. can't keep a straight face anymore... hehehe. :)
Lucas has always said he just wanted SW to excite the imagination, to not be anything but good rousing fun, although he did make allusions to the original coming out after a time of war, and ROTS coming out after/during a time of war.
Oh, and Starship Stroopers had inspired two friends of mine to join ROTC way back in college, they single handedly pointed to that book as why they wanted to join the military. And now another of Phillip K. Dick's novels is being turned into a movie, this time by Richard Linklater - "A Scanner Darkly" using his technology from Waking Life, the trailer at least looks rather amazing.