Yamaha HTR 5850 Setup problems

[gtmeade]

Hi: I'm new to the forum. I'm in my fifties and not an audiophile just trying to have decent surround sound for TV, movies & music. I purchased a Yamaha HTR 5850 6.1 Receiver and hooked it up yesterday. It does not have YPAO. I've double checked all connections. I went through the quick and easy Basic Setup where it asks you what size room you have and how many speakers you have, etc. During setup, automatic or manual, it can and does emit a test tone (sounds like radio static to me) to each speaker to confirm that they are working and to aid in adjustments. During the initial set up the test tone is indeed heard through each speaker so I know that every speaker is working. However, when I am watching TV I hear no sound through any of the rear speakers. Shouldn't I be able to hear some sound out of all the speakers even when watching regular TV? I've played with the sound field programs a little, not a lot, but it doesn't seem to help. I'd appreciate it if someone out there could kind of ewalk me through this. Thanks. GTM

[enrique]

How is your yamaha connected to your tv for audio.Do you have a cable/digital box?Check what your audio connections are.

[Woochifer]

Whether or not you can hear anything out the surrounds depends on how the soundtrack got mixed. On a lot of TV programs, you won't hear much, if any, activity in the surrounds. The default Dolby Pro Logic decoding will only direct activity into the surrounds if it picks up on an encoded signal. If you'd like more surround activity while watching regular TV, you should try Dolby Pro Logic II or the Five-Channel Stereo modes.

The real test for the surrounds is with 5.1 DVDs, particularly action pics that mix a lot of sound into the surrounds. If you pick up no surround activity while watching Star Wars or Master and Commander, then you need to look at the setup.

The YPAO auto calibration is a convenient feature, but it's prone to errors if the room is not quiet enough during the tests. I would suggest that you do the surround level tests manually, at least to make sure that the surround speakers are connected properly.

Also, check the speaker setup menu and make sure that all of the channels got activated.

[paul_pci]

Yes, me and Wooch were just discussing the pros and cons of prologic and prologic II. What I'll remark about your situation is that the one thing peoplle, who are new to home theater, are surprised most about is how little sound comes from the rear speakers in the course of everyday programming. Most people have this assumption that the rears will be just as prominent as the fronts and/or center channels, but that is just not the case. The rears, be it native 5.1 from a DVD movie, or via prologic convey ambient sounds and sound effects. They generally don't contain main sounds and/or dialog. So, if you're watching a news cast or a mellow drama, then there won't be much coming from the rear channels.

[gtmeade]

You are correct, most people expect to have lots of sound out of all speakers. I played around with my setup and I now have sound coming out of all speakers. I called Yamaha and they said normally only a small amount of sound comes out of the rears but if I want equal or near equal sound out of all speakers then I need to set the receiver on "six channel stereo" and indeed that works. Normally most of the time I will not be using the six ch stereo mode. I'm also a little confused about video upconversion. My tv has component video input so I ran a component video cable from the receiver to the tv. The yamaha guy said it does not improve the quality of the picture to go from analog VCR to the receiver and then component video cable to the tv. So I guess I don't understand what is being accomplished by having a component video cable? Anyway, thanks for your and every one else's help.

[edtyct]

The fault lies not in the receiver's inability to upconvert video sources to component video but in the VCR's inherent noisy, low-resolution format. It's a case of trying to squeeze blood from a stone. The sources that will benefit most are those that are capable of component connection in the first place but, for some reason, don't have the option. Other than that, it's primarily a convenience.

Ed

[paul_pci]

What you wouild be gaining is conveinience. You could for instance, have four or so video inputs of all types going into the receiver and only one component output going to your monitor. For instance, my Yamaha doesn't have componenet video upconversion so I need to switch tv inputs to go from my PS2 to SAT/DVD. So, you may not see any real upgrade of the picture quality, but it can be really convenient.

[gtmeade]

The yamaha guy said that I only needed to run a/v cables from the vcr to the receiver and then the component video cable from the receiver to the tv and I would be all set. I tried that but I couldn't get any picture on the tv without adding an RG-59 type coax cable from the antenna output on the vcr directly to the tv. That worked, no problem. But when I asked the yamaha guy he said yea, some cheap vcrs would still require the antenna cable. So again I was asking myself why do I need this $20 component video cable? But now that you have explained that you could have 4 different inputs into the receiver and they would all come out through the component video output on the receiver to the tv monitor, I can sort of see the advantage. I'm assuming that if I get a DVD player or recorder I would then not need the RG-59 cable to the TV? Thanks for all the help.

[edtyct]

Right, with the DVD player, your connection will most likely revert to a component input, unless you decide to go directly to the TV, either via HDMI/DVI for digital video or component for analog via. May I ask what output you were using for the VCR before you decided to go with the RG-59 cable? It should have at least a composite output, if not an S video output. If so, you would do well to use it and figure out how to make your receiver send it to the component output. RG-59 is definitely a last resort.

Ed

[gtmeade]

I was using the regular composite audio & video connections. Still am ( along with the RG-59 at the same time). But the yamaha guy said some cheap vcrs still would require the RG-59 type cable. I can't remember why he said it was necessary but it was something to do with the fact that the receiver doesn't have an RG-59 type input and certain type cheap vcrs must have an RG-59 type set up. I still don't understand why the signal just doesn't go out through the composite outputs to the receiver and then out from the receiver through the component output to the tv. Anyway, like I said, as long as I have the RG-59 I can watch the tv with no problem. Another question I have is my yamaha manual talks about "multichannel sources" . I'm assuming that means dolby encoded sources like vcr tapes and DVDs. It says if I set my receiver to "straight" it will send those multichannel signals directly to each respective speaker without any sound field processing. So I'm assuming that under most circumstances when I watch a vcr tape I should probably just set it on straight and I will get good surround sound? I'm a little confused on how to set the reciver for mostly just normal surround sound enjoyment when watching tv or vcr tapes. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

[edtyct]

The use if RG-59 and composite video at the same time would seem to be a redundancy. If you remove the composite connection altogether, you should still get a signal. But the other way around is what you really want. I suspect that the receiver requires an extra step to route the composite signal through the monitor out, and you aren't aware of it. I'm not familiar with your receiver, but others here are.

As for audio, no matter what your multichannel source, the receiver will have to process it to create a soundfield via some combination of your speakers. I assume that you've done proper setup of the relative levels/distances of your speakers. The surround audio from your VCR will be limited to analog Dolby Pro Logic and any DSP options that are proprietary to your receiver. If "straight" is the option that gets you what's encoded on the tape, so be it. As I said, I don't know your receiver. But you might have to switch manually to Pro Logic. Presumably, the situation will be different with your DVD player, which will use digital audio. Chances are that you'll have to select a Dolby Digital/DTS data stream in its menu and run a digital cable from player to receiver, which will automatically recognize the signal and route it appropriately, though you'll undoubtedly have DSP alternatives that you can implement yourself if you want. If your TV audio comes from satellite or cable, you should also make a digital connection.

This is bare-bones information. I'd go into more detail, but I have an injured hand. I wish I could say that it only hurts when I type.

Ed