HT suggestions please?

[Aris]

well i have to say. i really hate to post on forums about home audio cause its almost always a huge debate or i get flammed for thinking the wrong brand of speakers are good.

but ive done some research. and i think i have some idea's. but i need some advice.


i want to upgrade my entire home theater system. right now i just have some 5.1 DD computer speakers. and while their good for only being 300bucks, i want somthing better now that i have more money to spend.

my room is very small. like 20ft x 12ft.
and i live in dorms, so while i want it to be clear and complete, i dont need it to be overpowering.
space is an issue. which is why i need bookshelf speakers.
i watch alot of movies, and i love music and am very critical of how it sounds. i like almost anything, classical, rock, rap, pop, a little country. you name it and i prolly listen to some form of it. and i need it to sound good.
my TV isnt huge, but it fits the room and looks good. and now i want sound to compliment the visuals.

at first i was thinking a sony reciever and JBL speakers. but after further review of what i can afford and what sort of speakers i want ive since decided on Harman Kardon or Denon reciever and B&W speakers.

from what ive read and heard from ppl denon and b&w are about as good as it gets. if im wrong here please let me know.

this is what ive come to so far:

reciever: Harman Kardon or Denon (not sure which models i should get)
front/surround: B&W DM600 s3's
Center: B&W LCR60 s3


i have money to burn. but i want sound to fit my room. so i dont need 1000w subs etc etc.. but at the same time i want it to sound as good as i can get it without going off the deep end with proffesiona/top of the line equipment.

also, where can i buy B&W speakers in the USA?
url's w/ prices would be great. :)

[kexodusc]

Not only do you run the risk of being flammed, but so do I for responding to your post...oh well here goes.
For a receiver, if your choices must be between H/K and Denon, give both a listen, and if you still can't decide pick whichever is cheaper, both are reputable brands. I'd lean slightly more towards the Harmon Kardon for music but that's just me. Since you said you watch alot of movies, I'd recommend sampling Yamaha and Marantz, too. Onkyo's are another decent brand. Yamaha often gets credit for being the best home theater receivers.
For speakers, you'll have to do more work I'm afraid. B&W is a very popular brand, and is also one of the more criticized. I'd suggest sampling some other speakers, PSB, Paradigm, Klipsch, etc. All make very good bookshelf speakers. I was in the same boat as you once, and narrowed my choices down to B&W, Klipsch and Paradigm...in the end Paradigm won out because they sounded just a bit better to me. And I saved a couple hundred bucks over the B&W system I was pricing. Each brand had their strengths, but for the most part I couldn't pick a clear winner. I just hope you don't pick B&W without sampling some other brands first. Listening is a must, preferably in the same room with the same source. You might find B&W isn't quite what you want and save some money.
That being said, if you bought either receiver and the speakers you mentioned, I'm sure you'll still be very pleased. Happy shopping.

[Aris]

the only problem is, i have no idea where to go to listen to B&W speakers.

ive personally never actually heard them. i just picked them cause everyone says their good.

ive heard the klipsch speakers at best buy and thought the JBL's were better. i actually thought the JBL's were the best sounding speakers best buy had. but ive since learned that best buy isnt the place i should be shopping for home audio equipment anyhow.

well where should i shop?
where can i go to hear all these speakers?

also if i had to say, my music/movie time is prolly like 75% mucis/25% movies. i listen to alot of music, watch very little TV, but when i sit down to watch a movie i really like i want it to sound good.

[kexodusc]

Go to some of the speaker company websites and try the dealer locator, punch in your zip code or whatever and it'll find the closest one to you. Best Buy has some decent equipment, not incredibly high end, but not near as bad as many people in these forums would have you believe. Half the people on this forum buy their equipment, and then tell everyone it's the best because it's theirs. If you like the JBL and you'd be happy to buy them for whatever price you can get, go ahead, don't listen to anyone else's opinion. But do sample as much as you can to have reference to compare to. Try different musical sources, preferably something you like to listen to.
Don't rush into something you'll fuss with or be dissatisfied with for years to come.
When you sample speakers, make sure they're playing off the same amplifier/receiver too so you know it's the speaker that's making the difference. There's no right and wrong, each speaker has a certain characteristic sound that appeals to different people. The trick is to find the ones you like the most that fit your budget.

[poneal]

Sounds like a decent 5.1 receiver is what your looking for. If you do not care to invest in 7.1, I would go for a Harman Kardon AVR-130. It is not too expensive and provides amplification for 5 channels. Speakers are much harder to choose from. You really need to listen to all the ones you think you might like to buy. If no shops are in your area, some companies will give you a 30 day money back guarantee. Of course you usually have to pay for return shipping. Bookshelf are not as big or heavy thus less return shipping charges are less. What I definitely would not do is buy a speaker without listening to it first or at least have the option of returning it within 30 days if I so desire. Hope this helps.

[Aris]

thx for the replies

i have heard alot of nice things about harman kardon receivers as of late.

if i were to get one of their receivers i'd prolly go with the AVR630. i know a couple places i can pick one up for, for about $750 including shipping. which is at the high end of my price range, but still affordable.

i think im getting the jist of the speaker problem though. "just listen to as many as you can". well i'll try, but honestly i havnt been to lucky at finding a good audio equipment retailer in the omaha nebraska area in the last couple weeks.

i went the B&W's website to try and find some place close that sells them, but they only list places in europe.

i would also like to listen to some yamaha's, preferably next to the JBL's that i really liked at best buy.

[Bryan]

If I guess right you have roughly $2,000 for speakers, sub, and receiver.

IMO, something like the following would work wonderfully for you:

ELT system (http://www.audioc.com/sale/holidaysale.htm) - $899 delivered. This is a combination of effort from Onix (av123.com) and ACI (audioc.com) and should work wonderfully in your room. Downside is the sale ends December 31st but, again, it should perform wonderfully for you. Add the Denon AVR-3802 (http://www.6ave.com/cat_detail.jsp?a=audio&st=search&d=86&s=Surround%20Sound) from 6ave.com and you have a spectacular system that will last you through college and beyond. It goes for $698.06 delivered. The AVR-2803 goes for $699.06 delivered. 6ave.com is an authorized Denon dealer. Almost $1,600 for just about a complete 5.1 system that includes a receiver, sub, and speakers.

[Bryan]

Here is a B&W dealer in Omaha:

CUSTOM ELECTRONICS

7511 PACIFIC,
OMAHA,
NE, 68114
Tel: ( ) 4023974434
Fax: ( ) 4023972781

And what they carry:

600 Series 3
700 Series
300 Series
Active Subwoofers Series
Custom Installation Series
Leisure Monitors
CDM NT Series
CM Series
Nautilus 800 Series
FPM Series

[kexodusc]

I think most people here would agree that Yamaha makes excellent receivers, especially for Home Theater, probably tops for movies, but they make incredibly mediocre speakers.
If you can find B&W, Klipsch, JBL, and similar brands, I'd be surprised if Yamaha's speakers keep up.
But I have heard impressive Yammie speakers before, let us know how you make out.

[Aris]

bryan, hmmm....

well the first post sounded like a salesman, which sorta puts me off.

but the second post was very helpfull, thank you. i just called them up and they said they keep 600 s3's on demo almost all the time, so i will definatly be going to take a listen. i wont really be able to compare them with the JBL's i heard at best buy, but i think if i just do a quick run by and then go hear the B&W's i will be able to get a good idea which ones i like more.

i definatly want to hear whatever speakers im going to buy beforehand from talking with you guys.

as for my pricerange. i dont really have a pricerange. i dont have 2k to lay down on a system right now. but i have about 800-1k dollars of expeniture cash to spend per month, and will be piece-mealing a system together from that.

[TinHere]

If I guess right you have roughly $2,000 for speakers, sub, and receiver.

IMO, something like the following would work wonderfully for you:

ELT system (http://www.audioc.com/sale/holidaysale.htm) - $899 delivered. This is a combination of effort from Onix (av123.com) and ACI (audioc.com) and should work wonderfully in your room. Downside is the sale ends December 31st but, again, it should perform wonderfully for you. Add the Denon AVR-3802 (http://www.6ave.com/cat_detail.jsp?a=audio&st=search&d=86&s=Surround%20Sound) from 6ave.com and you have a spectacular system that will last you through college and beyond. It goes for $698.06 delivered. The AVR-2803 goes for $699.06 delivered. 6ave.com is an authorized Denon dealer. Almost $1,600 for just about a complete 5.1 system that includes a receiver, sub, and speakers.

The ELT's were developed by AV123.com. ACI chose to sell them after a two year search looking for a system they felt were best for the price point.

AV123 has a package deal on the ELT's and Denon 1804 [authorized] for $1250. I don't know how long this special will last. They also have other Denon models available with speaker purchases. They also have other specials on some Rocket systems.

Here's the link on the ELT special.

http://forum.av123.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1097

[Bryan]

bryan, hmmm....

well the first post sounded like a salesman, which sorta puts me off.

Not hardly! All I can do is try to piece together a system within a given price range. Whatever you decide to do is fine by me, especially as I make squat from them. Reason I mentioned the ELT system is it seems to fit within your budget and needs and it isn't available at local stores. Generally people are aware of what is available locally. This one isn't but has a reputation of being an excellent, especially at that price.

I prefer to recommend the factory direct/internet only brands. Part of that is due to what I own. Outlaw (http://www.outlawaudio.com) receiver, nOrh (http://www.norh.com) speakers, and SVS (http://www.svsubwoofers.com) sub. Another one is I did a lot of research and took my time prior to purchasing the gear. After I purchased the sub and speakers it they took between 3 - 6 months to arrive. Then again, the sub was due to SVS just beginning to become popular and having tons of backorders and nOrh was just finalizing their ceramic line of speakers.


as for my pricerange. i dont really have a pricerange. i dont have 2k to lay down on a system right now. but i have about 800-1k dollars of expeniture cash to spend per month, and will be piece-mealing a system together from that.

Here is where it depends upon how quickly you would like to put a system together. If you go slow you can put together a phenominal system that will last you for many years to come.

[spacedeckman]

In Omaha you have Custom Electronics, Stereo West, Niver Electronics and Sound Environment. All are very reputable places with very knowledgeable people and all added together, a pretty incredible selection of stuff.

At Best Buy, I personally think the JBLs pull a fairly distant 3rd behind the Athenas and the Yamahas. The Athenas are the best for the $$, The Yamahas go deeper and tighter in the bottom end but. The Yamahas are a bit bright, but some experimentation with the treble control or maybe some felt double stick taped over the tweeter (did that with an old JBL once and it worked wonders). The Klipsch, a distant 4th behind the JBLs.

On the receiver end, I'm pretty open about my support of Yamaha. Especially if you are looking to dump $800 or more on a receiver. Then there is no other choice in my book. I guess I could say the same of lower priced units as well. The h/ks are nice, but have had a fairly spotty reliability record the past few years. Marantz as well. I'm not going to knock the Denons, they are nice, but are featurewise behind the Yamaha, and also sonically not competative either, at least to my ears and the "audiophiles" I hang out with that I have actually got to do the comparison. Woodman will wax poetically about the Yamaha's better build quality and better customer service. I've never dealt with Denon's customer service, so I can' t comment there.

Go out, listen, and have fun. BTW, I'm not a very big B&W fan either. Not all that warm, nor one of Paradigm either. Don't like the tweeters on either one of them, don't like the voicing on the B&Ws, nor the scooped out midrange of the Paradigm. But you need to listen to find what pleases your ears. I'm not going to ever hear your system.

[Aris]

well i apreciate all the inputs. you've all been really helpfull.

as far as a reciever goes. i'll try to find a place locally to go hear some, but if i had to choose right now based on what ive heard from review sites etc, id prolly go with the HK 7200.. theirs a couple places i can pick one up for about 850-1k shipped. but i will definatly try to listen and compare it to some yamaha and denon's if i can.

is their a webpage you guys are pulling these audio retailers from? i was looking around and i couldnt find anything.

as far as subs go? is SVS like it? i went to their site and their specs are impressive. i dont want just alot of messy bass though. id prefer less bass as long as it was tight and clean and clear. i will be in a small dorm, so i wont be able to turn it up very loud very often, but i still want it to sound good at low volumes.

also about the reciever. the HK says it does 100watts and from what ive read when HK says 100watts they mean a true 100watts rms. so if i were to say (after listening to them) pick the B&W 600 s3 series speakers. and it has a power range of like 25-100watts. would i need to get a speaker that can handle more than 100watts since the receiver is talking rms and not peak power?

as far as yamaha and denon receivers go since those are the other 2 big names i hear being thrown around this forum as being really good. what model would be comparable to either the HK630 or the HK7200?

[Norm Strong]

I won't flame you, but it seems clear that you've already made up your mind as to what you're going to buy. You also seem to have all the money you can possible need, so why are you seeking our advice?

[Aris]

I won't flame you, but it seems clear that you've already made up your mind as to what you're going to buy. You also seem to have all the money you can possible need, so why are you seeking our advice?


idunno if i would say ive made up my mind. sure i have some brands that i favor already going into it, but if when i go hear them, i think another brand just sounds so much better, im not going to pass it up just cause it doesnt have the label i wanted before hand.

i originally had my sights set on sony just cause it was the name i always knew. then i heard some great things about harman kardon. then today i spent all day researching the yamaha 1400 and the denon 3803. i would really like to hear a comparison of these 2 along with an HK 630 or HK 7200.

i had never actually considered B&W for speakers before. the only time i had ever seen any of them were at a friend of a friends party who had some presige class nautilus speakers with krell amps i think it was. it was like a 50k system. so i thought B&W only made very high quality/very expensive speakers. it wasnt till i came here that i found out they have a full line of speakers. so i guess that would be my reason for my pre-bias towards them. but i definatly want to hear whatever speaker im going to end up buying.

im still not completely sure what sub i should get. should i just get a matching sub from the company i buy my main speakers from? ive heard some good things about SVS subs. ive heard i should get a sub with a wattage about twice whatever my main speakers are. which would mean i should get about a 200w sub.

and mainly i just like to see what peoples opinions are, and what suggestions they have for me.

[Bryan]

im still not completely sure what sub i should get. should i just get a matching sub from the company i buy my main speakers from? ive heard some good things about SVS subs. ive heard i should get a sub with a wattage about twice whatever my main speakers are. which would mean i should get about a 200w sub.

Given your situation, an Adire Audio Rava (http://www.adireaudio.com) or HSU VTF-2 (http://www.hsuresearch.com) would work wonderfully. Either one is cheaper than a SVS 25-31PCi. With either the Rava or VTF-2 you may be able to pick up a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDSP1124P) with it (about $120 delivered) and still be around the same price as the SVS.

The sub does not need to be the same brand as the speakers. Often in systems they are not. Concern yourself more with quality of the sub rather than wattage. For example, the HSU VTF-2 is only a 200W sub but is massively better than the Yamaha YST-SW315 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051826218233&skuId=5526451&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03045) that is a 270W sub.

IMO, a speaker package such as the aforementioned ELT system, Rocket Tyke 5.1 system (http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=36.1) or HSU Ventriloquist (http://www.hsustore.com/vt12.html) with one of their subs may work.

One thing to keep in mind is space will be at a premium in the dorm. 20' by 12' is excellent but gets filled up quickly once you put in a bed, desk, entertainment center, and dresser.

[Geoffcin]

idunno if i would say ive made up my mind. sure i have some brands that i favor already going into it, but if when i go hear them, i think another brand just sounds so much better, im not going to pass it up just cause it doesnt have the label i wanted before hand.

i originally had my sights set on sony just cause it was the name i always knew. then i heard some great things about harman kardon. then today i spent all day researching the yamaha 1400 and the denon 3803. i would really like to hear a comparison of these 2 along with an HK 630 or HK 7200.

i had never actually considered B&W for speakers before. the only time i had ever seen any of them were at a friend of a friends party who had some presige class nautilus speakers with krell amps i think it was. it was like a 50k system. so i thought B&W only made very high quality/very expensive speakers. it wasnt till i came here that i found out they have a full line of speakers. so i guess that would be my reason for my pre-bias towards them. but i definatly want to hear whatever speaker im going to end up buying.

im still not completely sure what sub i should get. should i just get a matching sub from the company i buy my main speakers from? ive heard some good things about SVS subs. ive heard i should get a sub with a wattage about twice whatever my main speakers are. which would mean i should get about a 200w sub.

and mainly i just like to see what peoples opinions are, and what suggestions they have for me.

Some quick answers;

1) If your going to spend ~$750 on a receiver your going to get a decent receiver. No matter if you choose Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, or Pioneer Elite. None of these companies make crap, especially in this price range. I defy anyone to hear a major difference in fidelity between the major brands.

2) The speakers for a 5.1 setup can cost you a lot, or a little. This is where your going to have to make your biggest decision.

3) There's a blizzard of speakers out there for you to choose from no matter how much you want to spend. This is where your going to have to do your most homework.

4) Subs don't have to match your main speakers. You will have to match the sub with the room though. If you have a 12' X 18' room you don't need a monster sub. If it's 20' X 32" with a cathedral ceiling you just might.

[recoveryone]

Taking a wild guess from your location, you are in the Air Force, and not near a big City. I have'nt heard much about this brand in a while but check with the Exchange and see if they carry The Engery line of speakers. If all possible stick with the one brand of speaker for trimble matching. Now for the AV reciever I would say the room is Concrete or Brick knowning Military Dorms, so I would suggest going with a Yamaha or Pioneer that has the auto calibration system on it. This will give you the best sound from what ever speakers you get.