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thepogue
05-01-2005, 11:51 AM
After a friend and I picked them up I got them hooked up around noon (yesterday)...these things are B-I-G to say the least..and because they were used break-in time wasn't an issue. I think I played Pink Floyd Animals first...they sounded great but not WOW...I think I've got higher expectation for these babies based on their price tag...so I'm looking for the huge wow factor...I also realize that 'stats need lots and lots of set-up tweaking time and very minor adjustment can make a huge difference.....so I need not get impatient with the beasts...(also they are bigger than I am I'm afraid they'll beat me up if I'm not careful! ;) after spending the day playing and moving a bit I did get them sounding close to the way they should (w-i-d-e o-p-e-n!!)....but I know (knew) going in that the 14 x 12 room is too cluttered for full performance. I do plan on knocking down another wall at some point to have a full 28' x 12' dedicated room so I'll really see what they've got when that happens (that's if they make it that long! ;) I must say this is my first set of ML's and what they do they do great....but I'm not so sure they do ALL things (i.e. music types) better than a typical acoustic suspension (of the same quality)...I'm not grading nor judging at this point just making a general observation. Funny thing is that I enjoy ALL types of music so knowing the strengths and weakness of each ('stat/Box) is kinda a moot point because I'm as comfortable slapping on AC/DC Back in Black, or The Brothers Johnson, or a classical selection on Gramophone vinyl.....soooo it's going to be fun fun fun!!

Also I've got to consider that I've been sitting in front of my P'digms for a few years now...and have tweaked them and got them as good as they will ever sound in this 12' x 14' room (for my ears in any event) so to place another set in the same room and in just a few hours look for a complete wash would be unrealistic. I'm really going to have get used to the "stat " sound...not at all to force myself to enjoy them but more to know what I'm hearing and how to make adjustment for peek performance. I think a couple of months should suffice and at that point I can make an educated chose as to which road I'll travel on for the next few years. One fact I really have to deal with is that current speakers (http:///#) and their close proximity to the side walls...(just a few inches & ML suggests two feet) ...that fact cannot change until I call in the demo crew...(I guess I'll need to have me son move out first!..:(

Well I'll be doing my grading within the next few weeks...and I'll write my review but I'd just though I'd give me first impressions...which are...



they are B-I-G, as wide open sound as I've ever heard, great looking, heavy as h*ll, kinda cheesy made for speaks costing 11K (new of course), gut pounding bass, picky placement, power loving kings of the ML crowd (save the sigs)

More to come....Pogue

Jimmy C
05-01-2005, 01:10 PM
...the glowing review I was expecting! You have been lusting after these for some time now...

Yeah, you might find that room too small for these. I have three or four ML dealers in my area, and I've only had a good demo in one of them - the biggest room. That dedicated sound room is probably 18x24 with a 12 ft. ceiling. Actually, everything in this particular store sounds very good.

How is the bass? IMO, the LF seems disconnected on the larger models. I suppose it's simply a cone not being able to keep up with panel. The 'lil Aerius didn't seem to exibit this trait, maybe due to a smaller woofer.

Good luck with them, and yes... keep up posted.

thepogue
05-01-2005, 02:56 PM
yea...it has been a long lustful relationship...it's like sniff' around a girl for a long time and then when ya get yer way wiff her...well...you know..lmao..no no thats not fair...ladies are MUCH more expensive then a lil set of ML's...lol as far as the bass is was awesome!!! but I'm sure thats quite a bit to do with the smallish room and shoot 4 10's also the "forcefoward config of the driver seems to control and push the bass notes more then letting the just bang and bounce...I'll need to fine tune it I'm sure, the bass that is.....but it will be to tone it down as apposed to adding!! As far as the normal "eureka-review"...I'm not even going there!! I let me ears do the reviewing for me...and for me lil brain the more one spends on any equipment the more one should expect from that product...but I've got to measure that with all the other factors such as the source, amps and room limitations which will effect the final outcome...which of course is the music. but if anything this time I've spent w/the ML's really gave me even a greater respect for the Paradigm's...for 2K they are still, in my mind, giant killers...I'd not hesitate for one second to suggest that anyone looking to get into the game for little $$ go pick up a set....more to come

Pogue

RGA
05-01-2005, 02:57 PM
Yeah that seems like a really small room for those speakers...I find you don't want to listen to them nearfield they need tons of space and bigger rooms...and when this is done they can be very good. My old dealer had a set of these(the previous incarnation) with some big Enlightened Audio Designs and Theta front ends which worked well.

Hope you get it all sorted out with regards to positioning.

thepogue
05-01-2005, 03:45 PM
is nearfield with these...lol....but thanks for the well wishes...it will be intresting over the next few weeks and I'll have the pleasue of listening to lots of great reference music!! cool beans..

Pogue

risabet
05-01-2005, 05:05 PM
You can make these speakers sing but you are going to have to take a lot of time with them. Be patient, I have a large room and spent the better part of a week dialing in my M-L's. The panels IMO won't generate much WOW, as you are already used to good sound. They will give you the delicacy and refinement they are well known for, a taste of the real thing. After you get them dialed in, what I think you'll find is that you are listening to music more than before. The best recommendation for any speaker.

If you haven't tried Jim's (of Martin-Logan) flashlight technique for toe-in, do it. It makes the dialing in so much easier. though it does seem silly, it really does work.

Geoffcin
05-01-2005, 05:09 PM
is nearfield with these...lol....but thanks for the well wishes...it will be intresting over the next few weeks and I'll have the pleasue of listening to lots of great reference music!! cool beans..

Pogue

You may be able to treat your room so that it behaves as a much larger one. The secret is to try to have the rear wall as absorbative as possible. If the wall behind your head has a reduced reflection, you will percieve it as much further back, hence it will give you a much "deeper" feel to the room. The front wall and sides directly in front of your speakers would benefit from some treatment too. Breaking up nodes is what it's all about. You don't need to go crazy, but a bit of treatment can produce a large benefit, especially with speakers as revealing as yours. I like the fact that your in this for the long haul, I'm sure that you'll soon see that you made the right choice.

yogo
05-01-2005, 07:50 PM
I believe a large part of that is getting used to a different speaker sound. Gotta breakin in your preferences, too.

Going from cones to stats may take even more time to get used to than going from a cone speaker to a different cone speaker.

Give them a couple of weeks, tweak 'em around a bit and tell us what you think...

RGA
05-01-2005, 08:14 PM
hey if you want a good disc for soundstage depth try Loreena McKennit's Parallel dreams. One of the tracks near the end 7, 8 or 9 has what is obviously set up as a street where a bagpiper is coming from the distance --- which should extend a good 20 feet beyond the wall as they get closer and closer with a horse and carriage as well. One of the big pluses with planars is that they should present stages like this real well.

Still I don't think you want to be using audiophiole approved recordings -- you should be listening to music you love...and while most recordings are not great neither should they be presented as unlistenable - for if that happens what;s the point of buying a system.

thepogue
05-03-2005, 12:18 PM
and I did make some headway. First I've got a Cheskey set up CD (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=84132#) and I used it for working on the toe-in anoung other things. I pretty comfortable that my toe-in at this point is 95% there but I was surprised to see how far off I was…As far as the bottom end I've got a good handle on that by using a test tone (a 100 Hz I think) to find all the cancellation areas in which I only found one…funny thing is it’s right the doorway where you enter the room….so anybody walking in and not "coping a squat" would be standing in one of the biggest dead zones in the room. My seated position was just a tab bit strong but nothing I can’t live with. I’ve got quite a few sound absorbing panels which I can use if needed. I think what I’m hearing from last night is that although my stereo center is pretty much dead on I’m still hearing more information (or is seems) from the left channel. Nothing overwhelming but I can hear it. It's also the speaker side that has the most room on it’s outboard side (2’) as opposed to the right speakers (#) outboard side has but a few inches to the wall. I think this will certainly make for some interesting tweaking in the coming months.

I must add that now that I’ve got several hours of critical listening I'm happy to report that because I’m listening more to the music (as opposed to the speakers) I’m very much enjoying them…female vocals are just astounding!!! I had a friend stop by and he stated (after 5 songs or so) that he’d never heard music sound so "real". And although hes not what I would consider a "audio type" (e.g. a nut!) he is a fine musician (and has good ears) so that did meant a lot to me. It’s always good to get that outside opinion especially when your really fixated on things getting set-up correctly you (we) tend to forgo listening to the music…so with all that said, they sound fantastic….still not 100% but they are real heavyweights!

As far as upgrading my other equipment I’ll have to wait on that…maybe next year or if something falls out of the sky I’ll consider it. I’m still hunting for that LP cleaner bargain…but that goes without saying ;) more to come

Peace, Pogue

thepogue
05-03-2005, 02:24 PM
not just for my system but for any new set-ups

1) be patient it DOES take time to get your lil brain adjusted and your ears, room and your wife!
2) Listen to ALL types of music not just refrence type..but everyday type (good point RGA)
3) and some really great thoughts on the "wow" factor...thanks risabet...I think ya kinda nailed it there...and come to think of it RGA has always beat the wow factor drum also...basically stating that some in your face speaks come across "WOWish" but wear thin soon after....(I'm sure we'd not 100% agree on which speaks do that;) but thats really not the point...the point is it does and will happen....stats seem to impress some but by a totally difference method.
4) room treatments....I know litte or nothing but I do agree 1000% that it sooo important! I'm having some foam (egg crate shaped) dropped off as we speak....so I'll have at it soon.

good word boys!

Pogue

Geoffcin
05-03-2005, 04:57 PM
This would go good with the Prodigy; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67786&item=5770514374&rd=1

Florian
05-04-2005, 03:58 AM
This would go good with the Prodigy; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67786&item=5770514374&rd=1
And so affordable :p

thepogue
05-04-2005, 11:24 AM
I could be...hmmm...8 of my cars with that $$$ lmao

Peace, Pogue

hermanv
05-05-2005, 02:50 PM
I repeat myself - don't forget that back wall.

They are dipoles and radiate the same energy from the panels forward and back. The Prodigys claim some bass magic that makes that band less of a problem. Do not overlook that back wall, years of conventional speakers may have subtly trained you not to think of this as much as these speakers will need you to.

I think you said bipoles at some point, that would be like two cone drivers facing front and rear with the same phase, dipoles radiate the opposite phase out the back than the front. (Damn, I hope I didn't get that backwards)

Although I have found speakers better in certain catagories than my MLs I have yet to find an all around better solution for anywhere near the money. When you get it right you'll find yourself more than once looking over your shoulder to make sure that vocalist hasn't snuck into the room. I'm trying to say in my own subtle way :) that if you like vocals, boy did you do the right thing.

thepogue
05-07-2005, 09:52 AM
well...no question it's a hugh issue and ML suggests the speaks are a minume of 2' from the back wall...3' to 3.5' is where my panels ended up but not the base units...they are only 1.5' away (I'm guessing maybe 2) but again the side walls are not anywhere near the 2' suggested....but my room is just limited at this point so it is what it is...I do have loads of room treatment material (3 x 1 1/2') foam padding with egg crate pattens...and I dont have an issue with the WF becuse my listening area is 100% mine so if I can ever figure out (over time) where anything needs to go...I'd be all set..(until the walls come down)

I had a great listening session yesterday with another friend and it was very well enjoyed...in fact we agreed that todate my systems greatest weakness is the room...without question but with that said he's a big opera nut and I'm much more a prog/jazz kinda guy....so with both endured the others selections over a couple hours but had a great time together....and the ML's shined!! Last night I listened to PF The Wall on vinyl...and it was steller and I was spooked a bit a few times...lol fun fun fun~

Peace, Pogue

Mr Peabody
05-07-2005, 08:42 PM
Sorry guys for intruding with a question off subject.

RGA, what happened to your Sugden?

Geoffcin
05-08-2005, 05:49 AM
I had a great listening session yesterday with another friend and it was very well enjoyed...in fact we agreed that todate my systems greatest weakness is the room...without question but with that said he's a big opera nut and I'm much more a prog/jazz kinda guy....so with both endured the others selections over a couple hours but had a great time together....and the ML's shined!! Last night I listened to PF The Wall on vinyl...and it was steller and I was spooked a bit a few times...lol fun fun fun~

Peace, Pogue

That's how I knew I was "there".

If your system can "spook" you, and listening session become events, then you've arrived!

RGA
05-08-2005, 08:24 AM
Sorry guys for intruding with a question off subject.

RGA, what happened to your Sugden?

I traded it in... I met the fellow who bought it though -- he was in the store at the time. That's twice this has happened...when i traded the B&W 302's in a fellow saw them and bought them.

The OTO was too good and the Sugden needed some work (basicaly opened up and fully cleaned as some static grittiness was starting on the contacts and a bit of cut-out. The fellow who bought the A48b also owns the A28b so he knew more about the fixes for it than I. I am working to build toward the best system I've ever heard so I have to do it in stages based on meger student finances. As it is the OTO is over my budget. I have a chance at a TT!/ARM1/Cart1 at a significant saving -- they brought in 25 units and since March are down to 9. Not bad considering it's still running $1700.00Cad which is about half price. the thing is quite a formidable deck in person -- makes the Nad/Rega I have seem like a toy.

Problem is I have no money -- so summer job hopefully can get the money soon. I'll also have to badger them on the price because the dollar is strong - i also have the NAD to trade in. And naturally I need to listen to the Linn LP 12 counterpart -- Soundhounds is huge into vinyl and said the Linn is worth listening to -- sounds different works with Audio Note very well. I met Mike Ranft though who sold off his LP 12 for the TT2 - so I'm considering the TT2 but that would force me to wait another few years.

Geoffcin
05-08-2005, 08:36 AM
I don't see how this has to do with Pogues Prodigy speakers.

thepogue
05-08-2005, 09:45 AM
RGA an ole matie of mine..so if he wants to jump aboard the Pogue-train the rides free...;) BTW RGA.....I''ll tie your post to mine...I've got a close friend looking for a TT...you willing to ship the NAD (#)? If so let me know maybe we can work somefinn out...one more point....if you looking for the best system you ever hear...coem over here and help me knock this wall out...and give me...ahhh...how bout another 5 years... ;)


Peace-Out, Pogue