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MCF
04-28-2005, 10:55 AM
What is it, what is it used for, what does it go from to? Is it for sound, picture? Is this a replacement for component from DVD to AVR or replacement for component from AVR to tv...etc. etc. If it is for DVD to AVR, then do you also have to have HDMI from AVR to tv??

LEAFS264
04-28-2005, 11:00 AM
High def multimedia interface, Used for sound and picture. Go's from dvd player to tv. Or sat..cable box to tv. It is a new tech. Not so much a replacement for component,as it is a better option if available.IMO

Jay.

MCF
04-28-2005, 11:14 AM
how does it interface with the AVR??

LEAFS264
04-28-2005, 11:18 AM
Normally, it doesn't. But as new receivers come out with the inputs and outputs on them you will be able to go from player to avr to tv.


Jay

paul_pci
04-28-2005, 11:27 AM
how does it interface with the AVR??

This is exactly what doesn't make sense to me about HDMI. A TV can't produce 5.1 surround sound, so it seems to me complete nonsense to send a digital cable that is transporting both audio and video straight to the TV. Without it going through a receiver (which it doesn't seem the intended design) it seems like a technology that is going backward.

LEAFS264
04-28-2005, 11:30 AM
Ya, for now we just get to enjoy the picture.

Mr Peabody
04-28-2005, 08:04 PM
Paul gets it! I have been trying to tell people on here since I got burned with HDMI it was a waste. From contacting manufacturers and reading owners manuals I have yet to find a DVD player that outputs more than a 2 channel audio signal through HDMI. The upscaling it is said to do will not upscale copy protected DVD's which makes that a useless feature. Bottomline, it is a digital version of the old analog RF connector and the cable is expensive. Stick with your component for video and toslink for audio. It is not a practical cable for those of us who have A/V systems.

Either HDMI misrepresented itself to the people who sell it or they didn't fully explain the product because none of this was told to me and in fact it was bosted as the next great thing by sales persons.

LEAFS264
04-29-2005, 03:51 AM
I didn't buy it for the sound. I bought it for the picture connection. One good HDMI cable from Audioquest, is a lot cheeper than a good set of component cables from Audioquest.

Some times you have to think outside the box!!


Jay

oliver kuo
05-02-2005, 07:36 PM
I'm thinking of picking up a HDMI dvd player for the sony kdf-42we555 I just got last week. What I want to know is would I be able to use the HDMI connection for video, while using a toslink connection for audio? Or is when HDMI enabled, toslink/digital coxial automatically gets disabled?

As for the upscaling not working with copy protected dvds. Can't you get around this by making a backup of your dvd using an app like dvdshrink, which can remove copy protections? (I'm sorry if this cannot be discussed here)

Mr Peabody
05-03-2005, 04:35 PM
You probably already know that the HDMI will carry the audio as well as the video to your TV. I wouldn't think using HDMI would disable the Toslink but you should consult the manufacturer before buying a DVD player to make sure. Or see if the unit in question has the owners manual available on line as many do.

You have an interesting idea of getting around the copy guard. Only trying it would tell for sure. I haven't dubbed DVD's so I don't know if you can do a perfect copy maintaining 5.1 and the same picture quality.

Some will argue this to no end but I have yet to hear an audio cd dubbed on computer or otherwise I couldn't hear a difference in. Perhaps it is just the matter of having a cd player that will reveal the difference. The only DVD's I've seen burned from computer have also had noticeable flaws in video and audio but these have been taken off the internet perhaps direct copies are better.

edtyct
05-03-2005, 07:13 PM
Copyprotection is an analog scheme. Any attempt to copy a DVD via analog will result either in an unwatchable picture or no picture at all. Upconversion of copy-protected disks is prevented only through component outputs, basically because of a near universal agreement between manufacturers and content providers to disable it. The first production run of the Zenith-LG DVD player permitted upconversion through component, but the latest firmware disables it. The Bravo DVD player upconverts through component, but only unprotected disks, which are precious few. The Chinese Neu-Neo player upconverts everything through component, simply because it isn't subject to the constraints of our market. Digital upconversion through HDMI is a fact of life. The Macrovison analog copy protection has no intrinsic relevance to it. The HDCP protection that pertains to DVDs as digital sources is not on the disks per se; it is part of the transmission between complying digital devices. If an HDCP/HDMI player encounters a display, or other target, that is not HDCP-compliant, it will simply not send a signal to it, thereby making upconversion impossible. This preliminary encounter between devices is called a "handshake." Such is digital copyprotection on upconverting or straight HDMI/DVI DVD players.

HDMI does not disable a toslink or coaxial transmission of audio. As Mr. Peabody says, since TVs are at this point the main recipients of HDMI transmission, HDMI audio is pretty much a wash. But new receivers and processors are poised in the wings to enter the market.

Mr Peabody
05-03-2005, 07:44 PM
Edtyct I am curious where you got your information. I understand that upscaling is not through component outputs and is being used as a marketing feature for certain DVD players to enhance the calling to HDMI. My LG DVD player specifically states in the owner manual it does not upscale copy protected DVD's through HDMI and Sony admitted in an email reply to me that their ns975 will not. I understand that one of the main reasons manufacturers got behind HDMI was for copy protection. It would seem much easier to copy protection digital opposed to analog.

My intention is not to argue but merely to show why I say what I do and to see if you may have more material to refer me to. I read an article in an A/V web magazine that blasted HDMI. When I emailed HDMI LLC they of course stood behind HDMI and referred me to articles that talked favorable about it, so it is extremely difficult to get to the truth. I can't believe LG would intentionally not upscale copy protected DVD's if it was possible or permitted. Not doing so would give them a handicap in the market. The big feature on my LG is it can play any region code DVD from around the world.

oliver kuo
05-03-2005, 08:23 PM
Well what I was suggesting was using a thrid party application to remove the actual macrovision protection from a disc, before making a duplication of it. This can be done with dvdshrink, and I think with dvdecryptor as well. If anyone currently has a HDMI dvd player setup, I guess we could work something out, and have me make a backup with macrovision removed to try it out.

I'm currently looking for a decent HDMI capable dvd player. I'm looking to spend $200 or less. Divx playing capabilities would be nice, but not crucial. Anyone have any recommendations?.

Here's an example

http://photobucket.com/albums/y199/BiGx5MurF/?action=view&current=dvdshrink.jpg

edtyct
05-04-2005, 04:52 AM
Got ya. But you don't need to remove Macrovision to upconvert via HDMI/DVI, only via component. I think that there's a serious encryption movement afoot to crack down on the defeat of Macrovision, so get'em while you can. Sony's (#) coming out with a new line of HDMI players this spring or summer, one of them a $200 model. Sony's digital video (#) is very good, as evidenced by the NS975V, and it's not subject to some of the artifacts in other players. The Panasonic is good, too, as are the Denon (#) 2910 on up, though macroblocking is in evidence on them. But you should have a huge crop to choose from in the next wave this year.

I'm editing to repeat from my previous post that even if you defeat Macrovision, most players by far still won't upconvert through their component outputs. I think that the Bravo D2 might still do so, however, and the Neu-Neo, which I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft. poll, though others have. Upconvert to your heart's content through DVI/HDMI, as long as your HDCP-enabled player is transmitting to another HDCP-enabled device (older DVI devices without HDCP don't need an HDCP target to upconvert successfully). By July 1, every digital video transmitter will have to include HDCP by mandate.

Ed

Mr Peabody
05-04-2005, 04:05 PM
The LG dvd-418 has HDMI output and costs around $189.00. I don't like the picture color as well as the Sony 975 but at leat the LG is still working and costs $100.00 less. The Sony 975 and Toshiba that offers HDMI have had problems. I don't know if they have been remedied or not. Some of the other players with upscaling like Samsung and the Denon 1910 use DVI. Some have mentioned the Bravo but I haven't heard of them and they aren't in my area.

edtyct
05-05-2005, 06:05 AM
Mr P,

I had an early firmware version of the Sony 975 that suffered the infamous failure. My latest one, with updated firmware, has been fine, though I must confess that my confidence is shaken, despite the fact that I've had it more than 3 mos. Mercifully, Sony is about to issue a whole new revamped line, which should please those who like how the 975 looks but otherwise are nervous about it. The cheap Toshiba is like their runt in the litter, suffering from all sorts of reliability and quality problems that are uncharacteristic of the company. The Denon 1910 apparently has macroblocking issues in spades. The 2910 is much better, closer in quality and build to the 3910 than to its baby brother. I'd avoid last year's Samsungs, especially with a Sony display. They crush black horribly. Hopefully, the new ones have remedied the problem. I wish the Bravo were easier to find. It's nothing special through its component outputs, or in its appointments, but it shines through its digital video output. It became the darling of the reviewing class. Do you have the LG with the latest firmware? Does it correct the crushed blacks?

Ed

Spidey420
05-05-2005, 12:32 PM
This is exactly what doesn't make sense to me about HDMI. A TV can't produce 5.1 surround sound, so it seems to me complete nonsense to send a digital cable that is transporting both audio and video straight to the TV. Without it going through a receiver (which it doesn't seem the intended design) it seems like a technology that is going backward.


My tv produces 5.1. DD.

paul_pci
05-05-2005, 12:40 PM
My tv produces 5.1. DD.

What tv is it? does it use an optical out? I can't imagine that you're plugging 5.1 speakers into a tv. If, for instance it's using a digital out to produce 5.1 sound, then it still makes the HDMI cable pointless.

Mr Peabody
05-05-2005, 06:03 PM
I bought my LG this year but I'm not sure if it has the latest firmware. What is firmware and how would I know if it is the latest? Black seems to be good but there is something about the picture that strikes me as peculiar.

edtyct
05-05-2005, 07:31 PM
Firmware is something between hardware (the player's physical qualities), which cannot be changed, and software (like a DVD), which can be at will. A company can make changes to certain parts of a DVD player's firmware, its operating system, to rectify performance. In Sony's case, only an authorized technician can do it. In LG's case, I believe that a firmware update was made available to users on the web, whereby they could make a disk and play it on the deck to make certain improvements (and to prevent upconverting via component output). Some A/V equipment uses a direct hook-up via an RS-232 serial port to make firmware changes, but I don't believe that the LG has one. Checking firmware usually involves some code on the remote, unless the player flashes it when you turn it on. You might be able to find out how to access it by going to an LG website and scouting around for a download/firmware section. My guess is that since you got the player this year, you have the latest version. If the black level doesn't bother you when you've calibrated your display to the best of your, and its, ability--that is, if detail isn't utterly lost in dark scenes--you're probably up to date.

Mr Peabody
05-05-2005, 07:40 PM
Thanks

edtyct
05-06-2005, 05:00 AM
My pleasure. My memory is sketchy about the LG's characteristics, but people were all over it for a while last year as an affordable digital deck. I'm curious about how they'll follow it up, given the impending Samsungs, which are loaded with features (like DVD-A and SACD, as well as a few video surprises) at modest price points and the new Sonys and Panasonics, with which LG/Zenith will be in direct competition.