Yamaha Receivers

[StateDJ85]

I've got a Paradigm System. Right now I'm interested in the Following amplifiers....

RX-V1500
RX-V757
HTR-5890

Any recommendations? Also, are there any noticable differences between the RX/HTR lines in terms of sound quality?

[paul_pci]

I've got a Paradigm System. Right now I'm interested in the Following amplifiers....

RX-V1500
RX-V757
HTR-5890

Any recommendations? Also, are there any noticable differences between the RX/HTR lines in terms of sound quality?


The difference between the lines is cosmetic and marketing, with the HTR lines going to X reltailers and the RX-V lines going to Y retailers. The RX-V lines seem to go to the more serious (if that's even an applicable characterization) retailers while the HTR goes to Best Buy and such. I believe the 1500 to be a solid unit, a sllight upgrade from the 1400, a very popular model which a friend of mine got and I set up for her. Have you considered the 2500? or is it beyond your budget. It's not that you need the extra watts, per se, but that it would be better built with a better power supply and such.

[oddeoowphil38]

The difference between the lines is cosmetic and marketing, with the HTR lines going to X reltailers and the RX-V lines going to Y retailers. The RX-V lines seem to go to the more serious (if that's even an applicable characterization) retailers while the HTR goes to Best Buy and such. I believe the 1500 to be a solid unit, a sllight upgrade from the 1400, a very popular model which a friend of mine got and I set up for her. Have you considered the 2500? or is it beyond your budget. It's not that you need the extra watts, per se, but that it would be better built with a better power supply and such.
Paul according to the Yamaha website there are significant differences between the RXV and the HTR line. First of all, the HTR line is the only line authorized by Yamaha to be sold on-line and to mass merchants such as Best Buy. Secondly, the RXV line power ratings are across the full bandwidth of human hearing from 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. The HTR line power ratings are done at 1,000 Hertz not across the full range dynamically speaking. In other words, the RXV-650 is gonna produce a minimal 95 watts rms whereas the HTR line will produce an x amount of rated power at 1,000 Hertz. With that being said you are right on track suggesting the RXV line. Peronally, I love my 650 but I plan on getting the 2500 as well as upgrade my home theater to all Paradigm speakers. Oh, the RXV line is also more expensive and rightfully so. Well, I hope I have clerified things a bit. :)

[oddeoowphil38]

I've got a Paradigm System. Right now I'm interested in the Following amplifiers....

RX-V1500
RX-V757
HTR-5890

Any recommendations? Also, are there any noticable differences between the RX/HTR lines in terms of sound quality?
Hello there-you mentioned you had a paradigm system but did not elaborate. Tell us what do you have? I love the Monitor 3 v.4 and the mini's v.4. I soon will be upgrading to them as well as a CC-370. My plans are to add another PS-1000 v.4 sub and a yammie RXV-2500. Well, good luck on your descision. Let me know what you decide.

[StateDJ85]

My system consists of the following:

Speakers

Paradigm Monitor 9 v2's front
Paradigm CC-370 center
Paradigm Atom Rears
Paradigm PS-1000 Sub

Yamaha htr-5460 receiver
Yamaha DV-S5270 DVD
Yamaha CDC-506 CD
Yamaha CDR-D651 CD Recorder
Sony CDP-CX450 400 disc changer

My current receiver sounds pretty good in 2ch stereo, but I think im underpowering my speakers and I just want a receiver better powered in surround mode.

Also I'd like to stay under 800 for a receiver and I'd like to stay with Yamaha just beacuse everything else is made by them. Eventually I'd like an Anthem System

[oddeoowphil38]

My system consists of the following:

Speakers

Paradigm Monitor 9 v2's front
Paradigm CC-370 center
Paradigm Atom Rears
Paradigm PS-1000 Sub

Yamaha htr-5460 receiver
Yamaha DV-S5270 DVD
Yamaha CDC-506 CD
Yamaha CDR-D651 CD Recorder
Sony CDP-CX450 400 disc changer

My current receiver sounds pretty good in 2ch stereo, but I think im underpowering my speakers and I just want a receiver better powered in surround mode.

Also I'd like to stay under 800 for a receiver and I'd like to stay with Yamaha just beacuse everything else is made by them. Eventually I'd like an Anthem System
State, you have a nice system there and I can certainly understand your receiver concerns. Have you looked into the yammie RX-V1500? If you look around you might be able to find a RX-V2400 or even a 1400 for close to that price. I plan on going with the 2500 myself. Good Luck!!!!

[paul_pci]

When the upgrade bug hits, it's hard to contain, but if you are vigilant and patient, you might find great deals on something like the 2500 upon the changing of the guards, as it were, you know, introducing new models, etc.

What surround mode are you referring to that you wish to have improvement on? I ask because when it comes to prologic, let's say for TV watcing, there's only so much improvement any receiver can produce from a matrixed signal. If you're into the various music and cinema dsps, then Yamaha is definitely the master and the higher end models offer more dsps.

[oddeoowphil38]

Paul I think I was referring to gaining more power as a reason of upgrading my 650 to the 2500. Personally, I think the yammie has too many sound fields and can get in the way of things at times. Keep in mind, my personal preference is on music not HT. Let me know what you decide. Good luck.

[StateDJ85]

My receiver that I have now just really lacks bass in surround mode. Interesting because it happens even with a sub. This receiver I have I bought back when I had crappy speakers and I upgraged the speakers after buying it. It's the kind of receiver yamaha would throw into one of those home theater in a box packages. Great receiver for the price, but I notice a huge difference when I go to the local shop and listen to my speakers with a denon/higher model yamaha. For those who have the rx-v1400 or 2400, is the optimizer mic the only difference between the model lines? I'm only 20 so I'm just looking to make a moderate improvement for not a whole lot of money

[paul_pci]

My receiver that I have now just really lacks bass in surround mode. Interesting because it happens even with a sub. This receiver I have I bought back when I had crappy speakers and I upgraged the speakers after buying it. It's the kind of receiver yamaha would throw into one of those home theater in a box packages. Great receiver for the price, but I notice a huge difference when I go to the local shop and listen to my speakers with a denon/higher model yamaha. For those who have the rx-v1400 or 2400, is the optimizer mic the only difference between the model lines? I'm only 20 so I'm just looking to make a moderate improvement for not a whole lot of money

There's going to be more of a difference than just the auto-calibration. Usually, you're talking about more inputs, more power, more dsp's, etc. But as you say, looking for a moderate improvement, then you should go with the 1400, or now, the 1500. Not sure about those two models, but my model (3300) has bass extension feature, which the manual says to engage if you don't have a subwoofer, but it might be what you're looking for.

[StateDJ85]

Thanks eeryone for your input. Today I purchased a RX-V1400 for 600 at the local shop. Unfortunately I'm at college right now so I can't hook them up to my good speakers until I go home for the summer. Right now I've just got my Paradigm Atoms as fronts, and a cheap surround package. This receiver is really nice and the auto setup is nice. I wish there was a bass extension button, but overall I'm happy with it. I'll make a new post once its connected to my nice speakers.

[paul_pci]

Thanks eeryone for your input. Today I purchased a RX-V1400 for 600 at the local shop. Unfortunately I'm at college right now so I can't hook them up to my good speakers until I go home for the summer. Right now I've just got my Paradigm Atoms as fronts, and a cheap surround package. This receiver is really nice and the auto setup is nice. I wish there was a bass extension button, but overall I'm happy with it. I'll make a new post once its connected to my nice speakers.

Congrats. Hope you enjoy for a long time. If you get a good sub working with it, you won't notice the missing bass extension feature.

[GMichael]

Paul according to the Yamaha website there are significant differences between the RXV and the HTR line. First of all, the HTR line is the only line authorized by Yamaha to be sold on-line and to mass merchants such as Best Buy. Secondly, the RXV line power ratings are across the full bandwidth of human hearing from 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. The HTR line power ratings are done at 1,000 Hertz not across the full range dynamically speaking. In other words, the RXV-650 is gonna produce a minimal 95 watts rms whereas the HTR line will produce an x amount of rated power at 1,000 Hertz. With that being said you are right on track suggesting the RXV line. Peronally, I love my 650 but I plan on getting the 2500 as well as upgrade my home theater to all Paradigm speakers. Oh, the RXV line is also more expensive and rightfully so. Well, I hope I have clerified things a bit. :)

here is what Yamaha has on their website:
What Is The Difference Between The RX-V Line And The HTR Line?


There are many similarities between these two product lines. The RX-V line and the HTR line are produced in the same Yamaha factory using the same high quality parts throughout. The RX-V and equivalent HTR models have the same warranty periods, the same manufacturer's suggested retail price, the same features, and the same remote control units.

There is a cosmetic difference found on the front panels of these two lines. The RX-V line maintains the traditional white colored lettering normally found on most Yamaha components, while the HTR line provides a slightly different approach. Yamaha has created a new look by using gold colored lettering in selected areas on the HTR receiver series. However, both the RX-V line and the HTR line feature the same high quality front panel construction.

The amplifiers in the HTR and RX-V units are identical but rated differently to comply with the accepted measurement standards of their respective channels of distribution. Both ratings are FTC approved and are designed to handle the dynamics of today's audio and video sources. The RX-V line has the power amplifiers rated from 20-20000 Hz. The HTR line has the power amplifiers rated at 1000 Hz. Both lines can reproduce the full frequency response of 20-20000 Hz.

The RX-V line is typically sold through Yamaha authorized audio/video specialty retailers, and is not available for mail order sales, phone sales, or internet sales.

The HTR line is sold through mass merchants,

[Woochifer]

Thanks eeryone for your input. Today I purchased a RX-V1400 for 600 at the local shop. Unfortunately I'm at college right now so I can't hook them up to my good speakers until I go home for the summer. Right now I've just got my Paradigm Atoms as fronts, and a cheap surround package. This receiver is really nice and the auto setup is nice. I wish there was a bass extension button, but overall I'm happy with it. I'll make a new post once its connected to my nice speakers.

Oh well, you already went ahead and upgraded. I was going to tell you that bass is more of a function of room acoustics and the setup parameters than anything having to do with the receiver itself. Anyway, the 1400 is a very nice and well regarded receiver with a lot of capabilities, so you'll get a lot of mileage out of that unit.

But, in terms of addressing the bass issue that you brought up, it probably won't help your situation. Only by repositioning the sub and changing the setup parameters will you get a substantial change in the bass. When you go into the lower frequencies, the boundary effects and wave interactions will create huge variations in the bass depending on the size of the room, and where the sub and listening positions are located.

The bass extension button on the older Yamahas is nothing more than a +6 db boost at 60 Hz. The tone control varies the bass with a center frequency of 50 Hz, so raising the bass using the tone control in the setup menu will pretty much do the exact same thing.

[StateDJ85]

After messing with this receiver for a while, I'm still having problems with the bass output. It seems like in movie surround mode the bass level is perfect. In 2ch stereo for music it's way too loud, in music surround modes it's too quiet, and in direct stereo its still too quiet. I'd expect it to be quiet in direct mode because its not enhanced at all. Even after adjusting the control on the back of the sub (which is almost all the way up), the LFE level, the sub speaker level in the setup menu, and the bass tone control, I can't get the bass at a good level for everything. I'm surprised how much it varies between surround modes. As a test, I put everything at max. bass and let the auto setup adjust the levels and even with that, you could barely hear it most of the time, expecially during music. Any suggestions?

[StateDJ85]

Another observation about this new receiver of mine. It sounds much flatter than the old one. On the old one I had the tone controls at zero and it was always perfect. With this one, I tried running the auto setup without a sub just to see how my atoms sounded as fronts. They sounded good, but they didnt put out near as much bass as they did with my older yam receiver. Even after boosting up the bass, they just didnt punch as much as they did with cheaper receivers. I figured that this receiver might have a flatter sound than cheaper ones, but it seems like without a sub it barely puts out any bass, even after i altered the settings quite a bit. I'm not a real hard-core audiophile that wants everything completely flat...i like a little deep bass to fill in even normal stereo music. Anyone else noticed this with upper-end yammies?

[kexodusc]

StateDJ85:
I have the 1400 receiver as well, and I don't have any issues with bass at all...
I'm inclined to believe that your problems are more setup-related than the receiver itself.
First, with respect to your concerns about the flat sound and lack of bass with your Atoms. Can you verify that your Atoms/setup has stayed exactly the same since swapping receivers...this is critical, moving your speakers even a few inches (especially in smaller rooms) can really skew things.

Go into the manual setup and verify that the Atoms (fronts) are listed as large when you are not using a subwoofer, and that the sub setting is set to "off" or "none" (I can't remember what it is exactly). Otherwise your Atoms aren't being fed a bass signal from the receiver at all and it's being redirected to the sub...which is ideal in my opinion, but not if you're listening to 2 channel stereo.
Also, please verify that your speaker are hooked up properly at both ends...I know the receiver is suppose to catch this but let's manually rule everything out...and don't feel stupid - I recently did this while setting up a friends system and trying for 2 days to figure out what was wrong with the bass - The Denon receiver's auto-setup didn't detect the reverse polarity, so you never know.

Do you recall if you had the bass boost on your last receiver?

Try these for now, just to rule out setup issues...could be any one or any combination of these.

Secondly,
With respect to your sub's bass output and the receiver...you might try the above as well, but this time make sure you set the sub to "subwoofer", not "both" or "none". Then check the LFE crossover, for the Atoms, I strongly recommend 80 Hz where they begin to drop off in bass. In room response for the Atoms (which I use to own) is really limited to the upper 50 Hz, and that's with room gain...they are quite weak below 70Hz. Good value speakers, but they don't really have any bass.

I'm not surprised the direct stereo mode's sub output is too quiet - this setting doesn't send a signal to the subwoofer at all.

How many components do you have connected to the receiver, a DVD player and a CD player for separate listening?
I ask, because you suggest LFE in movies is fine, but for music, you run into problems. It's not uncommon that the line levels of the two components would vary a bit and you'll notice slightly different "tones" especially in the low end. Also keep in mind that CD's don't have a true LFE signal so the receiver is doing it's best to extract the LFE info from a 2-channel signal.

I would also recommend for 2-channel stereo playback with a subwoofer active that you use the "straight" button/setting to deactivate the processing. Using the 2-channel Stereo mode is really for downmixing multi-channel signals into 2-channels (for example Dolby Digital 5.1 down mixed into 2.0), and puts 2-channel signals through another stage of processing while not really doing much productive processing at all...Straight bypasses this stage and keeps the signal a bit more pure....and sounds better IMO, especially through optical cable from CD players.
For 2-channel playback without the sub active, use the Direct Stereo mode.

That receiver is a very good unit with the exact same power supply and guts as the RX-V2400 (and the newer 1500 and 2500). Don't let the watt differences fool you, they are effectively nill. Once we get you straightened out I''m sure it'll give you years of enjoyment.r

[StateDJ85]

I'll go through all those suggestions once I'm back home with my good speakers. My atoms are surround speakers, but I'm at college right now and they're all I have for fronts. Once I have this receiver hooked up to my monitor 9's and my good center, I'll go through the setup again and try to get this straightened out. Thanks for the help though!

[Woochifer]

After messing with this receiver for a while, I'm still having problems with the bass output. It seems like in movie surround mode the bass level is perfect. In 2ch stereo for music it's way too loud, in music surround modes it's too quiet, and in direct stereo its still too quiet. I'd expect it to be quiet in direct mode because its not enhanced at all. Even after adjusting the control on the back of the sub (which is almost all the way up), the LFE level, the sub speaker level in the setup menu, and the bass tone control, I can't get the bass at a good level for everything. I'm surprised how much it varies between surround modes. As a test, I put everything at max. bass and let the auto setup adjust the levels and even with that, you could barely hear it most of the time, expecially during music. Any suggestions?

I would suspect that the "lack" of bass has more to do with variations between the sources your expectations than anything specific to the receiver. Before you go blaming the receiver, you need to isolate the variables, and with the deep bass, the biggest culprits are the room acoustics, the settings, and the speakers. Keep in mind that the YPAO auto calibration does not adjust the deep bass, so you still need to learn more about how to properly setup your system.

For your situation, I suggest that you get a SPL meter and test disc to verify the room acoustical effects. Variations of 20 db+ created by these room effects are very common, and this means that some bass sounds will sound thin, while others will blast your ears out. Room acoustical effects ensure that the bass will not be even in most rooms, and the first thing you need to do is properly place and setup your system and speakers to minimize the extreme variations.

When you talk about how the bass varies by surround mode, you need to make sure that you're using the same source for all of those modes. Otherwise, you're just comparing soundtracks, which vary a lot to begin with. If a movie or CD don't have a lot of bass to begin with, then your system is just reproducing what's there. You can't reproduce what's not there. Conversely, some soundtracks are loaded with bass.

If you're getting too much bass from two-channel stereo, then you need to make sure that all of the bass is getting directed only through the subwoofer, and not in parallel mode to both the mains and the sub.

[StateDJ85]

While talking about this lack of bass in some modes, the source remains the same. Often times it's an audio CD via an optical connection. At this point, the sub. level on the back of the sub is at about 90%, and the crossover is at about 80 Hz. One very significant difference will come by changing the EQ setting in the setup from parametric to graphic. When changing it to graphic, the bass level skyrockets even though the graphic equalizer is set flat. This leads me to believe that the automatic setup takes the sub. level way down. Also, on my old receiver (Yam. HTR-5460), I got the most bass out of my sub by setting the setup to bass with fronts+sub. If it was only sub, it sounded just the same as if it was set on fronts. This was a sub hooked up with an RCA cable to the sub output on the receiver. My main concern is that the sub I have (PS1200), has a lot of power, and the fact that the level is so low, means that the receiver is doing soemthing to limit the bass output, not keeping it flat which is what I'm trying to accomplish. Like I said earlier, once I have the system hooked up to my good speakers I'll give this a try.

[Woochifer]

While talking about this lack of bass in some modes, the source remains the same. Often times it's an audio CD via an optical connection. At this point, the sub. level on the back of the sub is at about 90%, and the crossover is at about 80 Hz. One very significant difference will come by changing the EQ setting in the setup from parametric to graphic. When changing it to graphic, the bass level skyrockets even though the graphic equalizer is set flat. This leads me to believe that the automatic setup takes the sub. level way down.

That's probably because when the EQ is set to flat, the actual in-room response has a huge frequency peak in it. The ideal is to get the in-room frequency response as flat as possible. Once you get it flat with minimal peaking, then you can raise the levels to where they're supposed to be without the bass getting driven by those boomy peaks.

The YPAO can adjust for frequencies down to about 60 Hz, and if your room is creating a huge peak between 60 Hz and the crossover point,then that's exactly what it's supposed to do. The point of an equalizer for the bass is the dial DOWN the bass at those intervals most severely affected by the room effects. It's not a matter of MORE bass, it's a matter of getting BETTER bass. Leaving huge room-induced peaking in the bass might leave the impression that you're getting more, but it's also less even and less full.

Like I said, you need to get a test disc and SPL meter and properly set the sub levels. Generally, you will setup the system so that the sub level is about 4 db higher than the mains. It doesn't matter if the sub is at "90%" - the volume position has no consistent bearing on the actual output and power consumption.


Also, on my old receiver (Yam. HTR-5460), I got the most bass out of my sub by setting the setup to bass with fronts+sub. If it was only sub, it sounded just the same as if it was set on fronts. This was a sub hooked up with an RCA cable to the sub output on the receiver. My main concern is that the sub I have (PS1200), has a lot of power, and the fact that the level is so low, means that the receiver is doing soemthing to limit the bass output, not keeping it flat which is what I'm trying to accomplish. Like I said earlier, once I have the system hooked up to my good speakers I'll give this a try.

And that kind of parallel bass augmentation on your old setup will give you the incorrect amount of bass. It will give you boosted bass, but it won't be anywhere near a flat in-room response. The point of having decent bass is that it is SUPPOSED to sound like it's at the same level as the mains. When setup properly, all that a subwoofer does is extend the bass response down by about an octave or so.

From the sound of things, your receiver is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. It just doesn't fit with what you're used to.

[StateDJ85]

PROBLEM FIXED!

I finally got the problem fixed. However, I've noticed something very interesting that was also a problem on my last Yamaha receiver. When going through the setup menu, the only way I can get bass out of the sub is selecting bass output to fronts+sub. When selecting only sub, NOTHING comes out of the sub, even with the sub level turned up all the way. Same with the setting to fronts (which of course I would expect). I don't understand why the only way to get bass to come out of the sub is to set it as "both" for the bass output. It doesn't cause a probem at all, I just don't understand why it works this way. Now everything else is flat, I've got the EQ set to parametric, and it sounds fine. I just dont understand why it doesnt work this way with the bass output set to sub only. With my old receiver, I knew the setup like the back of my hand, and had the same problem. Anyways, it's fixed so thank you everyone for your help.

[kexodusc]

StateDJ85:

Something's not right here...if your speakers are set to small, and the bass is set to SUB only you should be getting a signal...how do you connect the sub? With speaker wire or with a sub cable?
If you're using a sub cable, something is weird here.

In my system, the Parametric eq setup thingy kills my sub's level to minimum, and then sets the distance to 17 feet or so, though it's clearly only 8.5 ft from the mic.
I manually adjust this and everything becomes perfect...suggest you look into this too...you should NOT need to set bass output to fronts + sub to get a signal.
Make sure the sub cable is in the "input" slot on the sub and the output slot of the receiver.

[StateDJ85]

I'm not sure what the deal is here. The sub's hooked up with the sub cable, into the sub pre-out output (this is the only rca jack for a sub on this receiver). It's wierd because when I set it to only the sub, no bass comes out at all. I had this problem with my old receiver. I'm not sure what the deal is here.

[Worf101]

PROBLEM FIXED!

I finally got the problem fixed. However, I've noticed something very interesting that was also a problem on my last Yamaha receiver. When going through the setup menu, the only way I can get bass out of the sub is selecting bass output to fronts+sub. When selecting only sub, NOTHING comes out of the sub, even with the sub level turned up all the way. Same with the setting to fronts (which of course I would expect). I don't understand why the only way to get bass to come out of the sub is to set it as "both" for the bass output. It doesn't cause a probem at all, I just don't understand why it works this way. Now everything else is flat, I've got the EQ set to parametric, and it sounds fine. I just dont understand why it doesnt work this way with the bass output set to sub only. With my old receiver, I knew the setup like the back of my hand, and had the same problem. Anyways, it's fixed so thank you everyone for your help.

When setting up a friends Yammie 1500. After doing YPAO and having the whole system calibrated, when we started playing a movie... no sub, no center channel. Had to go in and MANUALLY add those two channels to get the 5.1 to come through. Curious.

Da Worfster :confused:

[kexodusc]

I think these auto-calibration/EQ things aren't immune from room acoustic problems.
Like I said, I get oddball results on my Yammie, and the Denon I hooked up had a few issues too.
Always check the settings manually after.

[shokhead]

What can you die hard Yamaha guys tell me about a R-V1103? I know its old as one of the DSP"S is Disco. LMAO.

[nightflier]

...That receiver is a very good unit with the exact same power supply and guts as the RX-V2400 (and the newer 1500 and 2500)....

I am also in the market for a Yamaha receiver because of the additional features (I'm making the switch from Onkyo). While I'm still debating wether to het the HTR5890, RXV-1500, or RX-V2500, I am leaning towards the latter. For anyone who's interested, audioholics has a very comprehensive review:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/YamahaRX-V2500review05.php