jeskibuff
04-21-2005, 12:47 PM
"One remote to rule them all, one remote to poll them
One remote to replace the rest, and all your devices - control them!" - J.R.R.Remoteking
As others on this website have found, the search for the optimum universal remote is an elusive trek. Some are really good but none seem to be perfect. Here is the collection of 9 remotes that I attempted to replace with one universal:
Top (horizontal): Mitsubishi Learning Remote (came with Mitsubishi TV)
Just beneath it, the remote for Sony's HX900 DVD recorder
Then left to right (vertical):
Panasonic 42" plasma
Pioneer PDR-555RW CD recorder
Sony DVP-777ES 400-disc CD/DVD/SACD carousel
Sony TAP-9000ES preamp
Sony HD-200 HDTV STB
Denon DVD-1600 DVD-A player
Sony CX-350 300-disc CD carousel
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/3166/tobereplaced6um.jpg
The Mitsubishi was sufficient to replace the remotes for my Lexicon preamp, Sony preamp, both CD carousels, the Panasonic plasma and the Denon DVD player. The addition of the HDTV receiver and the DVD recorder as well as the need for better control of "activities" begged for a new remote.
(You may have noticed that I don't even show the remote for the Lexicon. That thing never worked right from day one. I programmed the Mitsubishi at a local retail store and packed away the non-functioning Lexicon remote.)
Why did I think I needed an "activities-based" remote?
When playing a DD DVD for instance, I'll usually use the Denon and the Lexicon, but because the Lexicon doesn't have a DTS decoder I'll switch to the Sony preamp to use the Denon's decoder.
Most of the time I'll watch a TV show on the computer, requiring the HDTV receiver and the DVD recorder to be powered on, but neither the Lexicon nor the Sony preamp.
For some shows I'll power up the plasma and run the 5.1 signal through the Lexicon.
I did my shopping and soon got frustrated with the available choices. I've been spoiled by the simplicity and functionality of the Mitsubishi remote. It has a near perfect layout with common volume, channel and transport buttons at the ready. For more complicated adjustments the bottom panel can slide down, exposing other buttons. Every universal remote out there seemed to not be able to match those qualities which I think established a great baseline back in the 1980's.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/737/mitsubishiopen3nj.jpg
But the Mitsubishi was now inadequate and "activities" seemed to be the answer, so I took a chance in acquiring a Harmony 659 on the recommendation of people here.
I set it up, but not for all my "activities". I got frustrated with it and went back to using the Mitsubishi, supplemented by the other remotes. I mainly didn't like the fact that I had to look at it and search for keys every time I wanted to do something. There are just too many keys scattered all over the place. They can't be located just by feel unless you're already blind and well-versed in Braille. Fortunately, I'm not insulting any blind people right now because they can't read this! Oops! Darn that accessibility stuff added by Microsoft! :(
Several weeks later I decided to pick up a Home Theater Master remote, but WHICH ONE? The designations were ALL OVER THE PLACE. You had the URC-100,-200 and -300 then the MX- series (-500,-600,-650,-750,-800,-850,etc). I couldn't find any good comparisons or charts that enumerated the features, so I just got frustrated and got the MX-850. Aside from a few faults, this did the trick for me.
It had enough flexibility to set it up the way I wanted, plus I could operate it in the dark.
Most keys are uniquely shaped or positioned.
You can never mistakenly pick up this unit by the wrong end and expect it to work facing backwards (unless you're really a dunce)!
It has LCD illumination, but the hard buttons remain unlit. Illuminating the display is a bit clumsy, requiring just the right amount of pressure on a button on the side of the unit.
I could easily arrange the functions I wanted on the LCD pages and omit functionality that I never used.
The RF unit was a big plus, but it too had limitations. Even going into an adjacent room, the ability of the unit to respond was diminished. Apparently, this is a common complaint.
On the downside, I'm still doing a lot of switching between devices when changing "activities", but I've yet to finish my setup, especially for DVD-A and SACD/DTS listening. I'm pretty sure I can get this remote to do everything I want it to do (eventually).
So after paying almost $370 for remotes in the last 4 months, along comes the Harmony 768 on Amazon for $49.99 after rebate with free shipping. Higher in Harmony's "food chain" than the 659 in their lineup and not having the 428 buttons like their other models had, this was too good for me to pass up. Perhaps my reservations concerning the 659 would be conquered with this "better" Harmony.
I received it yesterday and promptly set it up. My first observation was its diminutive size. It's on the far left in the picture below. The 659 is to the right of it, the MX-850 second from the right and the Mitsubishi on the far right.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/6699/theuniversals0of.jpg
The small size is nice and yet has some drawbacks. It fits easily in the palm of your hand and takes up little surface space on the coffee table. On the downside, that makes it easier to lose, especially if it burrows its way between your seat cushions. The LCD on the bottom makes you think that you're holding it wrongly. It has about half the buttons than the 659, but like the 659 you can't feel confident in pressing them unless you're looking at them directly. Like the 659, they are illuminated, but the lettered button faces aren't quite as easily discernable as they are in the 659.
The 768 relies heavily on the LCD screen to access functions that aren't available on hard buttons. You navigate through the selections using the scroll wheel mounted on the right hand side. When you find what you're looking for, you press the wheel in to select your choice. I figured at first that this would be biased against lefties, but those southpaws could probably easily work the wheel with their index finger instead of their thumbs. Still, it's a setup that I find awkward especially in combination with the "mode" button right next to the wheel (in the picture the wheel is the grey rectangle and the mode button is the little white oval above it and to the left). Maybe it'll take some getting used to.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/852/h768sideview7nt.jpg
The MX-850 has also spoiled me by not requiring me to point it directly at the equipment (most of the time). I really like the idea of the RF signal path, but wish HTM had brought it to production with more reliability. I found myself trying to use the 768 like the MX-850: pressing without aiming.
But back to the 768:the transport buttons (play, pause, etc.) are at the top of the unit and ordered somewhat unconventionally (read: not what I'm used to). The power button is 4 rows down in the middle. Huh?? The mute button is right next to it. I don't know about you, but when the phone rings I want to find either the mute or the pause button IMMEDIATELY without having to look for them. That's not so easy with the 768.
And now to the BIG problem with the 768:the backlighting! Mine was working fine initially, then it got somewhat sporadic, then it didn't work. All within the first few hours of ownership! A toll free call to customer service got it (somewhat) working again. Their recommendation was to tighten the screws located on the backside of the unit, especially the two within the battery compartment. Evidently this very compact design has an underlying flaw. When you put the two halves of the plastic casing together there also occurs an electrical connection which is evidently very dependent on how well they are mated. By ensuring that 5 screws on the backside are tightened down snugly, you (theoretically) ensure that the electrical connection is also complete.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/8483/h768opened3ae.jpg
The customer service rep even suggested that I tap on the unit to get it to illuminate. The rest of the remote functions okay - just not the illumination. Needless to say, trying to control a sound system in dimmed light with this remote is next to impossible if the backlighting is not functioning properly. Well, as soon as I tightened all 5 screws, the unit STILL was not functioning properly. The rep was in the process of suggesting that I return the unit under warranty when suddenly the light came on as I played with the scroll wheel. Now once again, it's not working.
I can't imagine Logitech having sold this as their top-of-the-line remote and getting away with it! The simpler layout impressed me, but at $250 retail, this thing should not have these sorts of problems! They have a one-year warranty, so hopefully I'll get a replacement that has undergone some TLC to overcome what I feel is most likely a design flaw.
Also, the access to lesser-used functions via the scroll wheel appears to be cumbersome. For instance, to select a particular disc in my carousel with my MX-850, I press the LCD button I programmed as "DISC #", followed by the digits corresponding to the disc, then the ENTER key. The carousel rotates to the disc then loads and plays it. I don't know if I can set up the 768 to be capable of such an easy switch, even if I could get a "disc #" function on the menu. There currently is a "next disc" and "previous disc" function, but the reliance on scrolling through a menu (using the awkward scroll wheel) makes it cumbersome. Yes the remote seems to allow you to access all functions, but it's a pain to get there! Maybe with time I'll find it easier, but I don't think it will.
Bottom line: I'm not too impressed with the Harmonys, especially with the button layout. The MX-850 is a much better remote than either, but then again at about 3 times what I paid for the 659 it should be. The MRF-250 added about $40 to the cost, so that also should be taken into consideration. Other Home Theater Master remotes can be found for much less dinero, like the URC-100,-200 and -300 and MX-500. As hershon said in another thread, the ease in setting up the Harmonys is a big plus for those who are impatient or technically challenged. The MX- units are a bit more difficult to master. The perfect remote? So far, in my opinion it would be my old 1980's vintage Mitsubishi Learning remote modified to allow about 10 "activities" while broadcasting RF information to an IR relay unit reliably from 5 rooms away! Perhaps add a little illumination to the buttons when sliding down that panel and we have a winner. Logitech? Home Theater Master? ...are you listening?
Here's my summary:
Mitsubishi:
Price: Acquired in 1989 as part of the purchase of a 35" console color TV
Advantages: Exceptionally simple, functional layout Can be operated with confidence in the dark Asymmetry - no confusion as to which end to pick up Common functions at the ready - more elaborate control available under the sliding panel. They could have put the "learn" switch underneath the panel and put another button in its place, in my opinion. Batteries last forever - years go by without needing replacement
Disadvantages: Limited to just 4 "activities" Every single button needs to be "learned" - there is no internet or computer connection to make it easier
Harmony 659
Price: Acquired January 2005 on eBay (used) for $88.01, including $12 shipping
Advantages: Illumination - pressing ANY button lights up this remote like a Christmas tree. It certainly has a pretty look to it when lit up! Easy setup via the internet website A very comprehensive database of remote codes. Chances are you may have a device not listed, but for those that are there you'll save a lot of time in setup. The website does a good job of trying to figure out the best match for a device you're trying to control Remembers what's powered on - one button push will power everything off
Disadvantages: Symmetry - it's too easy to pick up this remote (especially in the dark) and hold it the wrong way Remembers what's powered on (IF it's been powered on with the remote). If you decide to use a different remote or power up a device manually, it'll lose synchronization. This is less of a pain if you have discrete power-on and power-off codes. If a device has a power-on toggle and the Harmony thinks the device is off when it's really on, it'll power it off and think it's powered on. :rolleyes:
Button layout - aside from a few keys, you need to search for almost every button that you need. Transport buttons are at an awkward position at the very bottom - tough for one-handed operation without the remote trying to squirt out of your grip Fine adjustments - while the website sets you up nicely by guiding you through several basic steps, once you get back into the website to adjust things you have to experiment a lot to find what you're looking for. It's organized nicely for initial input, but not for making tweaks. With experience you should be able to get to where you want to go quickly. Battery life - one of the most common complaints. The ample illumination takes a toll on the batteries, yielding about a 3-month cycle for replacing the 4 AAAs.
HTM MX-850
Price: Acquired March 2005 on eBay (new), including MRF-250 RF relay unit. Total cost: $279.95 including $20 shipping
Advantages: Ability to arrange most used "less popular" functions for devices on LCD pages Flexibility to set it up the exactly the way you want it Modifications don't require establishing an internet connection Asymmetry - no confusion as to which end of this remote to pick up! Large size - harder to misplace, harder to lose between sofa cushions Construction - built nice and solid as if it could take a lot of abuse Button layout - differing shapes and locations of buttons allow operation by feel With the MRF-250, the remote doesn't have to be pointed at the equipment
Disadvantages: Relatively high price Unreliable use during RF transmissions - sometimes works, sometimes doesn't Higher than normal learning curve for setting it up (meant for professional installers) Large size - needs more countertop space to rest on Illumination - requires pushing button on the side (slightly awkward & inconvenient) Illumination - only the LCD lights up, all hard buttons have no illumination Connection - some people don't like the lump on the body where the cable connects
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/7840/mx850sideview8is.jpg The connecting cable is not USB (you need an adapter if you don't have a serial port) Requires much more "learning" - the database of device codes is not as comprehensive as is offered by Logitech/Harmony. Most likely you will be doing a lot of learning for each button on each remote. Structure - requires you to understand the structure of the remote - the differences between how the hard buttons work and the LCD pages and the meaning of "punch-through" (copying the functions from other devices). While the Harmony site takes care of the setup structure for you, you have much more freedom to build the HTM's setup the way you want it, which could be perfect or could be horrendous!
Harmony 768
Price: Acquired April 2005 on Amazon.com for $49.99 including shipping and $10 rebate
Advantages: Closeout price - cheap, cheap, cheap! Small size - fits nicely in the palm of your hand - takes up little coffee table real estate Most of the advantages of the Harmony 659: the same internet setup, button illumination, etc.
Disadvantages: Small size - easily consumed by hungry seat cushions, maybe too easy to lose Almost all of the same disadvantages of the 659 Unnatural configuration - you really WANT to hold it with the LCD at the "top" Unreliability of backlight functioning - apparently a widespread quality problem Button layout requires look-before-pressing operation Awkward scroll wheel/mode button operation
Scrolling through lists to find the function you want
Anyway, I hope this little remote comparo helped some people out. Your mileage may vary.
One remote to replace the rest, and all your devices - control them!" - J.R.R.Remoteking
As others on this website have found, the search for the optimum universal remote is an elusive trek. Some are really good but none seem to be perfect. Here is the collection of 9 remotes that I attempted to replace with one universal:
Top (horizontal): Mitsubishi Learning Remote (came with Mitsubishi TV)
Just beneath it, the remote for Sony's HX900 DVD recorder
Then left to right (vertical):
Panasonic 42" plasma
Pioneer PDR-555RW CD recorder
Sony DVP-777ES 400-disc CD/DVD/SACD carousel
Sony TAP-9000ES preamp
Sony HD-200 HDTV STB
Denon DVD-1600 DVD-A player
Sony CX-350 300-disc CD carousel
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/3166/tobereplaced6um.jpg
The Mitsubishi was sufficient to replace the remotes for my Lexicon preamp, Sony preamp, both CD carousels, the Panasonic plasma and the Denon DVD player. The addition of the HDTV receiver and the DVD recorder as well as the need for better control of "activities" begged for a new remote.
(You may have noticed that I don't even show the remote for the Lexicon. That thing never worked right from day one. I programmed the Mitsubishi at a local retail store and packed away the non-functioning Lexicon remote.)
Why did I think I needed an "activities-based" remote?
When playing a DD DVD for instance, I'll usually use the Denon and the Lexicon, but because the Lexicon doesn't have a DTS decoder I'll switch to the Sony preamp to use the Denon's decoder.
Most of the time I'll watch a TV show on the computer, requiring the HDTV receiver and the DVD recorder to be powered on, but neither the Lexicon nor the Sony preamp.
For some shows I'll power up the plasma and run the 5.1 signal through the Lexicon.
I did my shopping and soon got frustrated with the available choices. I've been spoiled by the simplicity and functionality of the Mitsubishi remote. It has a near perfect layout with common volume, channel and transport buttons at the ready. For more complicated adjustments the bottom panel can slide down, exposing other buttons. Every universal remote out there seemed to not be able to match those qualities which I think established a great baseline back in the 1980's.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/737/mitsubishiopen3nj.jpg
But the Mitsubishi was now inadequate and "activities" seemed to be the answer, so I took a chance in acquiring a Harmony 659 on the recommendation of people here.
I set it up, but not for all my "activities". I got frustrated with it and went back to using the Mitsubishi, supplemented by the other remotes. I mainly didn't like the fact that I had to look at it and search for keys every time I wanted to do something. There are just too many keys scattered all over the place. They can't be located just by feel unless you're already blind and well-versed in Braille. Fortunately, I'm not insulting any blind people right now because they can't read this! Oops! Darn that accessibility stuff added by Microsoft! :(
Several weeks later I decided to pick up a Home Theater Master remote, but WHICH ONE? The designations were ALL OVER THE PLACE. You had the URC-100,-200 and -300 then the MX- series (-500,-600,-650,-750,-800,-850,etc). I couldn't find any good comparisons or charts that enumerated the features, so I just got frustrated and got the MX-850. Aside from a few faults, this did the trick for me.
It had enough flexibility to set it up the way I wanted, plus I could operate it in the dark.
Most keys are uniquely shaped or positioned.
You can never mistakenly pick up this unit by the wrong end and expect it to work facing backwards (unless you're really a dunce)!
It has LCD illumination, but the hard buttons remain unlit. Illuminating the display is a bit clumsy, requiring just the right amount of pressure on a button on the side of the unit.
I could easily arrange the functions I wanted on the LCD pages and omit functionality that I never used.
The RF unit was a big plus, but it too had limitations. Even going into an adjacent room, the ability of the unit to respond was diminished. Apparently, this is a common complaint.
On the downside, I'm still doing a lot of switching between devices when changing "activities", but I've yet to finish my setup, especially for DVD-A and SACD/DTS listening. I'm pretty sure I can get this remote to do everything I want it to do (eventually).
So after paying almost $370 for remotes in the last 4 months, along comes the Harmony 768 on Amazon for $49.99 after rebate with free shipping. Higher in Harmony's "food chain" than the 659 in their lineup and not having the 428 buttons like their other models had, this was too good for me to pass up. Perhaps my reservations concerning the 659 would be conquered with this "better" Harmony.
I received it yesterday and promptly set it up. My first observation was its diminutive size. It's on the far left in the picture below. The 659 is to the right of it, the MX-850 second from the right and the Mitsubishi on the far right.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/6699/theuniversals0of.jpg
The small size is nice and yet has some drawbacks. It fits easily in the palm of your hand and takes up little surface space on the coffee table. On the downside, that makes it easier to lose, especially if it burrows its way between your seat cushions. The LCD on the bottom makes you think that you're holding it wrongly. It has about half the buttons than the 659, but like the 659 you can't feel confident in pressing them unless you're looking at them directly. Like the 659, they are illuminated, but the lettered button faces aren't quite as easily discernable as they are in the 659.
The 768 relies heavily on the LCD screen to access functions that aren't available on hard buttons. You navigate through the selections using the scroll wheel mounted on the right hand side. When you find what you're looking for, you press the wheel in to select your choice. I figured at first that this would be biased against lefties, but those southpaws could probably easily work the wheel with their index finger instead of their thumbs. Still, it's a setup that I find awkward especially in combination with the "mode" button right next to the wheel (in the picture the wheel is the grey rectangle and the mode button is the little white oval above it and to the left). Maybe it'll take some getting used to.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/852/h768sideview7nt.jpg
The MX-850 has also spoiled me by not requiring me to point it directly at the equipment (most of the time). I really like the idea of the RF signal path, but wish HTM had brought it to production with more reliability. I found myself trying to use the 768 like the MX-850: pressing without aiming.
But back to the 768:the transport buttons (play, pause, etc.) are at the top of the unit and ordered somewhat unconventionally (read: not what I'm used to). The power button is 4 rows down in the middle. Huh?? The mute button is right next to it. I don't know about you, but when the phone rings I want to find either the mute or the pause button IMMEDIATELY without having to look for them. That's not so easy with the 768.
And now to the BIG problem with the 768:the backlighting! Mine was working fine initially, then it got somewhat sporadic, then it didn't work. All within the first few hours of ownership! A toll free call to customer service got it (somewhat) working again. Their recommendation was to tighten the screws located on the backside of the unit, especially the two within the battery compartment. Evidently this very compact design has an underlying flaw. When you put the two halves of the plastic casing together there also occurs an electrical connection which is evidently very dependent on how well they are mated. By ensuring that 5 screws on the backside are tightened down snugly, you (theoretically) ensure that the electrical connection is also complete.
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/8483/h768opened3ae.jpg
The customer service rep even suggested that I tap on the unit to get it to illuminate. The rest of the remote functions okay - just not the illumination. Needless to say, trying to control a sound system in dimmed light with this remote is next to impossible if the backlighting is not functioning properly. Well, as soon as I tightened all 5 screws, the unit STILL was not functioning properly. The rep was in the process of suggesting that I return the unit under warranty when suddenly the light came on as I played with the scroll wheel. Now once again, it's not working.
I can't imagine Logitech having sold this as their top-of-the-line remote and getting away with it! The simpler layout impressed me, but at $250 retail, this thing should not have these sorts of problems! They have a one-year warranty, so hopefully I'll get a replacement that has undergone some TLC to overcome what I feel is most likely a design flaw.
Also, the access to lesser-used functions via the scroll wheel appears to be cumbersome. For instance, to select a particular disc in my carousel with my MX-850, I press the LCD button I programmed as "DISC #", followed by the digits corresponding to the disc, then the ENTER key. The carousel rotates to the disc then loads and plays it. I don't know if I can set up the 768 to be capable of such an easy switch, even if I could get a "disc #" function on the menu. There currently is a "next disc" and "previous disc" function, but the reliance on scrolling through a menu (using the awkward scroll wheel) makes it cumbersome. Yes the remote seems to allow you to access all functions, but it's a pain to get there! Maybe with time I'll find it easier, but I don't think it will.
Bottom line: I'm not too impressed with the Harmonys, especially with the button layout. The MX-850 is a much better remote than either, but then again at about 3 times what I paid for the 659 it should be. The MRF-250 added about $40 to the cost, so that also should be taken into consideration. Other Home Theater Master remotes can be found for much less dinero, like the URC-100,-200 and -300 and MX-500. As hershon said in another thread, the ease in setting up the Harmonys is a big plus for those who are impatient or technically challenged. The MX- units are a bit more difficult to master. The perfect remote? So far, in my opinion it would be my old 1980's vintage Mitsubishi Learning remote modified to allow about 10 "activities" while broadcasting RF information to an IR relay unit reliably from 5 rooms away! Perhaps add a little illumination to the buttons when sliding down that panel and we have a winner. Logitech? Home Theater Master? ...are you listening?
Here's my summary:
Mitsubishi:
Price: Acquired in 1989 as part of the purchase of a 35" console color TV
Advantages: Exceptionally simple, functional layout Can be operated with confidence in the dark Asymmetry - no confusion as to which end to pick up Common functions at the ready - more elaborate control available under the sliding panel. They could have put the "learn" switch underneath the panel and put another button in its place, in my opinion. Batteries last forever - years go by without needing replacement
Disadvantages: Limited to just 4 "activities" Every single button needs to be "learned" - there is no internet or computer connection to make it easier
Harmony 659
Price: Acquired January 2005 on eBay (used) for $88.01, including $12 shipping
Advantages: Illumination - pressing ANY button lights up this remote like a Christmas tree. It certainly has a pretty look to it when lit up! Easy setup via the internet website A very comprehensive database of remote codes. Chances are you may have a device not listed, but for those that are there you'll save a lot of time in setup. The website does a good job of trying to figure out the best match for a device you're trying to control Remembers what's powered on - one button push will power everything off
Disadvantages: Symmetry - it's too easy to pick up this remote (especially in the dark) and hold it the wrong way Remembers what's powered on (IF it's been powered on with the remote). If you decide to use a different remote or power up a device manually, it'll lose synchronization. This is less of a pain if you have discrete power-on and power-off codes. If a device has a power-on toggle and the Harmony thinks the device is off when it's really on, it'll power it off and think it's powered on. :rolleyes:
Button layout - aside from a few keys, you need to search for almost every button that you need. Transport buttons are at an awkward position at the very bottom - tough for one-handed operation without the remote trying to squirt out of your grip Fine adjustments - while the website sets you up nicely by guiding you through several basic steps, once you get back into the website to adjust things you have to experiment a lot to find what you're looking for. It's organized nicely for initial input, but not for making tweaks. With experience you should be able to get to where you want to go quickly. Battery life - one of the most common complaints. The ample illumination takes a toll on the batteries, yielding about a 3-month cycle for replacing the 4 AAAs.
HTM MX-850
Price: Acquired March 2005 on eBay (new), including MRF-250 RF relay unit. Total cost: $279.95 including $20 shipping
Advantages: Ability to arrange most used "less popular" functions for devices on LCD pages Flexibility to set it up the exactly the way you want it Modifications don't require establishing an internet connection Asymmetry - no confusion as to which end of this remote to pick up! Large size - harder to misplace, harder to lose between sofa cushions Construction - built nice and solid as if it could take a lot of abuse Button layout - differing shapes and locations of buttons allow operation by feel With the MRF-250, the remote doesn't have to be pointed at the equipment
Disadvantages: Relatively high price Unreliable use during RF transmissions - sometimes works, sometimes doesn't Higher than normal learning curve for setting it up (meant for professional installers) Large size - needs more countertop space to rest on Illumination - requires pushing button on the side (slightly awkward & inconvenient) Illumination - only the LCD lights up, all hard buttons have no illumination Connection - some people don't like the lump on the body where the cable connects
http://img132.echo.cx/img132/7840/mx850sideview8is.jpg The connecting cable is not USB (you need an adapter if you don't have a serial port) Requires much more "learning" - the database of device codes is not as comprehensive as is offered by Logitech/Harmony. Most likely you will be doing a lot of learning for each button on each remote. Structure - requires you to understand the structure of the remote - the differences between how the hard buttons work and the LCD pages and the meaning of "punch-through" (copying the functions from other devices). While the Harmony site takes care of the setup structure for you, you have much more freedom to build the HTM's setup the way you want it, which could be perfect or could be horrendous!
Harmony 768
Price: Acquired April 2005 on Amazon.com for $49.99 including shipping and $10 rebate
Advantages: Closeout price - cheap, cheap, cheap! Small size - fits nicely in the palm of your hand - takes up little coffee table real estate Most of the advantages of the Harmony 659: the same internet setup, button illumination, etc.
Disadvantages: Small size - easily consumed by hungry seat cushions, maybe too easy to lose Almost all of the same disadvantages of the 659 Unnatural configuration - you really WANT to hold it with the LCD at the "top" Unreliability of backlight functioning - apparently a widespread quality problem Button layout requires look-before-pressing operation Awkward scroll wheel/mode button operation
Scrolling through lists to find the function you want
Anyway, I hope this little remote comparo helped some people out. Your mileage may vary.