Ar.com's kit

[hmmmm]

Hey Kexo, Poneal or anyone else...Have you heard Ar.com's speakers in a 5.1 setup with the Ed Frias ext mod DV-62CLRS as center and the ext. mod Adatto's for rear's. That's what Ed Frias said a lot of people have done. The center is ugly...maybe I could paint it or something. Do they really match well? I'm used to being able to set my surrounds to dipole or bipole and the adattos don't have that feature but would fit in on my walls. I also currently have a 6.1 setup. I need fairly small left and right surrounds that can hang on the wall. Is this the best DIY setup or would you suggest something else. I don't like "bright" sounding speakers.

[kexodusc]

HI hmmmm:

I've built 14 AR.com's now. I'm quite impressed with the sound, but especially the versatility of these speakers. You can make a better midrange, a smoother high end, etc, but packaging a good sounding speaker together with as low a bass response as these is impressive. I cross my sub over at 60Hz (or even 40 Hz) with excellent results, this is hard to do on lesser systems. I've built a few other $200 DIY designs (Audax HT, PeeCreek) but I prefer the Ar.com's over them, so I decided to build my entire HT around them.

I bought the DV-62CLRS from Ed - extensively modded version. You can read some of my reviews here in the review section of the site. I started with 6 Ar.com's, used 1 as a front center, 1 as a rear center. This works quite well, but if you have a larger room like myself, I suggest going with the DV-62CLRS from Ed. The AR.com DIY is a better speaker, but the DV-62CLRS works better as a center channel IMO. The off-axis dispersion seems quite a bit better...it just makes a better center channel than one Ar.com DIY speaker does. It's basically a DIY/modded speaker anyway, and the price is certainly right...it'd be hard to DIY an MTM center channel like that and make it sound as good...let alone getting it voiced so well to blend with the AR.com's.

Ed might not like to hear this, but I strongly recommend going with at least 4 Ar.com's, instead of the Adatto's...This is perfect for multi channel-audio and is as seamless a system as you can get for home theater...unless price becomes an issue (it does to most of us sooner or later)

I don't find the AR.com's bright at all...just detailed. The Peerless tweeter has excellent off-axis response, which works well in this design. Many don't care for it because on paper, it's on-axis response isn't so great, but in this design and in real world listening scenarios, you won't toe the speakers in all the way, they'll be toed in only part way (so you can see the inner side of each speaker). This helps give the very wide soundstage and smooth response these have. I've found a few tweeters in other designs I have that measure a bit better on axis, don't sound as well off-axis, and the wide soundstage suffers as a result My Paradigm Studio 40's (which these replaced) were considerably brighter, so I consider the AR.com's just smooth, maybe even a bit warm. But some still find these bright. That's okay, Ed can tell you how to add a resistor to the crossover to tailor the sound to your preference...it's quite easy.

Refinishing the DV-62CLRS is very easy. The vinyl peels off like a sticker, and there's just MDF underneath...sand the remaining adhesive away and add a nice veneer like I did, or paint these to match. Veneering is the way to go IMO, but you can also get some very nice colored vinyl laminates (like store bought speakers use) from Parts Express for $10 or so...enough to do 4 speakers at least.

A very good first project IMO.

[hmmmm]

My only problem with using the ar.com's kit for surrounds is that I have to mount them on the wall (no other options) and my right surround has to fit in a smaller space because it's squeezed between two doors.
It's good to hear that the center matches nicely.

[poneal]

My current HT is 5 AR.Coms. I didn't have the need for a MTM center because my TV is projection vs CRT. Of course they match well because they are all the same. If you want to hang the surrounds off the wall then IMHO, my two new designs will meet your purposes. The RS150+MDT20 is an outstanding value. The only thing I have tweaked is the series notch filter. I increased the 12uF cap to 14.2uF which drives the first breakup node down to almost 30db and the 2nd down 40db. This changed the xover to 1950hz. The phase and group delay look a tad better also. The other one is the Audax 5.25 and MDT20. This is also a nice pair and not as revealing as the RS150. I took some measurements on the RS150 and they were solid down to 80hz and which point they start a gradual decline down to 40hz. The bass is outstanding on the RS150 and I would characterize it as leaner and meaner than the AR.Coms. These can be hung on a wall as they are sealed enclosures. Hung on the wall, the bass is extended.
http://home.stx.rr.com/poneal/index.html?Location=Speakers&Page=Speakers

[kexodusc]

Paul's designs are certainly interesting. The MDT-20 is by all accounts one of the best bang-for-the-buck tweeters out there.

I hate to hijack a thread, but while you're hear Paul, perhaps you can comment on the mid-range of the RS150 compared to the Peerless and the Audax? I did a few speakers from the Audax HT design with the AP170ZO, and wasn't that impressed with it's midrange performance, especially compared to the 2 designs I have with the Peerless 850122 6.5" woofer. I'm looking at using both a Dayton Reference tweeter (is it in yet?) and the RS-180, probably in a ported box, but that's okay. The midrange on these is supposedly killer.

The only donwnside I can see would be the power handling, my rooms are both over 300 sq ft and I could see peaks topping 90 watts, especially during classical music...ran into that with the Audax. Nothing an MTM couldn't fix though ;)

[kexodusc]

Geez, the AP170Zo is only $24 each on the deal of the day...I paid $36 at Madisound last year.....there's more incentive for you...saving $10 on 5, 6, or 7 of these goes a long way.
You'd have to order before the day is out though.

[EFE Speakers]

kexodusc,
I really don't mind anyone recommending the DIY over the modified Adattos. The DIY is a much better speaker overall, but many guys building a surround system don't have the space in the rear for another pair of DIY's such as hmmmm, so the Adattos work very well, are convenient to hang on the wall, look nice (white or black) and match voice-wise not only with the DIY's but with all of my other speakers as well. It sounds like Paul's suggestions might be another good option also, for rears a lot of people are very limited on what they can use.

EFE

[kexodusc]

That's good, Ed, I kind of feel bad recommending people build speakers you design but receive no money for over speakers you do sell - understanding this is your livelyhood and all. However, I obviously missed the point about the space requirements...my bad!!!
I had to fight long and hard with the lady of the house to allow me to build stands tall enough in the room for the rears, then I had to make them look at least moderately pleasing to the eye...Guess I like making things difficult for myself.

Being quite close to a wall might present some difficulty as well for the bass response in the Ar.com's. The nice thing about the Adatto's is they're inexpensive and easy to sell on ebay or somewhere to recover some of your investment should you ever want anything bigger. And I believe as with all the extensively modded speakers Ed sells, he measures and balances them...no worries about getting a pair of speakers that are way off from one another. I don't know of any inexpensive mass market speakers that get that kind of treatment. I've got to admit, Ed's DV-62CLRS sure surprised me when we flipped them sideways and ran them as main speakers.

[poneal]

I can tell you what I thought of the 6.5" Audax. I wasn't impressed to say the least and I think I will take that page off my website before someone builds it. It's like the thing doesn't have a lot of bass and the mids are so so. It's amazing, but the 5.25" to me sounds so much nicer. Nice clean, clear highs with no harshness.

I'm behind times here because this is the first I've heard of the adatto? not sure of spelling. I can say that the peerless 850122 is a really nice woofer. I'm assuming that the addato is sealed so you can pretty much hang it on a wall.

My impressions of the RS150 (still only have one done) is that this is an outstanding driver and less than $30.00. I have this feeling that the price will be going up at some point. The bass is just unbeliveable on this little guy. In a sealed box the bass starts dropping off below 80hz (about 12db an octave). I get an F3 of 63hz and after that it starts dropping off pretty fast. This is nice tight solid bass. The mids are really nice and the MDT20 is a decent tweeter for the price. That RS28 tweeter (its in stock) looks really nice too. I must say that the sound is definitely different than a poly cone woofer. The voicing is up front (nice for a center channel in HT). Let's just say that I am pretty impressed with the RS150 and I'm sure the RS180 is just as good. There are some posts on the PE board about a cauer-elliptic filter (Jon Marsh) design for the RS180 and even some discussion on using this topology on the 8" RS (RS225 I belive). Now thats a feat as the xover will be around 1500hz.

I will try and keep all informed but I am taking my time on this RS150 project. I might even get some of those RS28s to drop in there since the flush mount is the same width as the MDT20. The frequency response graphs on the RS28 look really nice and for < $50 I think is a good deal. Maybe not as low as we would like but nevertheless not a bad price.

[hmmmm]

kexodusc,
I really don't mind anyone recommending the DIY over the modified Adattos. The DIY is a much better speaker overall, but many guys building a surround system don't have the space in the rear for another pair of DIY's such as hmmmm, so the Adattos work very well, are convenient to hang on the wall, look nice (white or black) and match voice-wise not only with the DIY's but with all of my other speakers as well. It sounds like Paul's suggestions might be another good option also, for rears a lot of people are very limited on what they can use.

EFE

It looks like I'll probably go with the Adatto's for the rear just because of a space problem. It looks as if they are the only ones that will fit in that space. I do listen to SACD's and DVD-A's but for now they'll have to be different speakers in the rear. I'm sure they'll be better than what I have - at least for music.

[kexodusc]

I can assure you the front 3 speakers are quite nice, so SACD's and DVD-A's which are still mostly front loaded will sound great, and I don't doubt Ed's ability to squeeze every last drop out of the Adatto's either...
Funny, you, I and Paul will have extremely similar HT systems...Ar.com's sealed Quatro subs...RX-V1400 receiver (don't know what Paul has) at least until the next project begins :D

[poneal]

I have a Harman Kardon AVR 320 @ 65wpc in stereo and 55wpc in 5.1. I've had this guy for almost 3 years now without one problem. I usually listen at -35 on the dial except for karaoke -20. The 15" Quattro pumps bass into the whole house.

Where can the Adatto be found (link please). The RS-150 is still moving ahead slowly. I am definitely going to have to get into veneering because painting takes so long especially since I don't have a spray rig. Yeah, I can honestly say that the AR.Coms is as close as some people will ever come in regards to audiophile speakers. Regards, Paul.

[MCH]

At one time I had Polk Audios for rears in my system. When I got into SACD multi-channel I noticed something seemed to be amiss in the rear channels. That's when I built my AR.diys (the different shaped ones (see gallery) that hang on the wall. The SACD sound in multi improved to my satisfaction. For most movies I feel you don't have to worry about having top end rear surrounds, but music is another story. Also a good sub can enhance the listening pleasure tremendously of SACD in multi (or any other format) with the AR.diys.
just my experience.

[kexodusc]

I think you can find the Adatto's on BIC America's very crappy website...but no sense looking at them there, Ed modifies modifies the speaker to fix all the shortcuts the factory makes, totally different crossover, etc...I suppose you could ask Ed about them more...lots of other DIY'ers who've done the Ar.com's seem happy with them as a very cheap, small solution for surrounds...I haven't heard them myself.

Veneering isn't exactly quick either...word of advice...use oil based if possible, water based is a bit fussier, especially polyurethane/varnish, etc...All in all, I think it's a bit quicker than paint...I only like the gloss black paint jobs, but after awhile that must wear out on you. There's all kinds of nice exotic veneers out there.

I keep toying with the idea of tackling an MTM center channel, based on the Peerless drivers in the AR.com DIY...I can handle the 4 ohm impedance the parallel circuit will present, and I'm told Solen sells a 4 ohm version of the 850122 woofer so you could wire them in series for an 8 ohm load...would need a new crossover, but I think it's doable. I'm sure you can relate to being light on the measurement equipment...suppose I could do the FRD Consortium method...we'll see if I have time.

[kexodusc]

Well Hmmm, you've got the sub part taken care of ;)

[hmmmm]

Awesome! Are you going to post a picture? Let's see that handywork.
I had the day off so I worked on a funky side table/bookstand for the home theater room. That is after I mowed the lawn, put down fertilizer and painted a bathroom. I then settled down and smoked a cuban cigar. I smoke about 3 cigars a year...today, it just felt right:)
It's funny, I thought the other day it was kind of funny that we had the same type of setups. I wonder if all of our wifes look the same!

[hmmmm]

Oh, I've read all of the "Speaker Building 201" book and I feel like I just read a book in Latin. I'm not stupped, I just can't figur out math I gess.
Okay, maybe I am stupid!

[kexodusc]

I had to read Weems' books two or three times and study the first 2 designs I built inside out just to get a feel for the basics...but it's interesting reading...I recommend the "Great Sound Stereo Speaker Manual" by Weems, or his Designing/Building book and of course Vance Dickason's "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" as well...sooner or later it'll all start to sink in.
I was lucky and had 2 months off work to devote time to this hobby, but I'm still very much new at all of this.
My biggest hurdle is the time it takes to learn everything, I'm tempted to move faster than I'm ready for, and when I get going my job often calls on me to travel out of town for a few days.

We'll see, I'm home this weekend and intend to finish the sub cabinet cuts, start veneering and staining by Sunday and should have it all finished Tuesday...then I'll have to decide between a nice small bookshelf pair for my dining room to replace the Axiom's, a home theater for my folks, or the center channel for the ar.com's...I'm not sure a dual woofer design would be any better than a vertically placed single bookshelf, though the dual-woofer array should add some horizontal dispersion to the mix while being only slightly off-axis of the tweeter...the biggest problem here is the fact that the drivers aren't magnetically shielded...though I understand Solen in Canada sells shielded "versions" of these drivers...I'll look into it and if doesn't seem like too much trouble, it might be fun...got to admit though, the EFE DV62CLR-S is more than satisfactory, I'm quite happy with it, and leaning towards building something else instead of revisiting something I already have completed...we'll see.

[kexodusc]

Afterthought...my new RPTV is immune to the "magnetic distoriton" problem plaguing direct-view TV's isn't it?

Easy enough to verify, I'll move the bookshelfs right beside the tv and look for distortion.

[hmmmm]

Afterthought...my new RPTV is immune to the "magnetic distoriton" problem plaguing direct-view TV's isn't it?

Easy enough to verify, I'll move the bookshelfs right beside the tv and look for distortion.
That's what they told me about my DLP, so I put them pretty close.

[kexodusc]

DLP's are immune, but in theory the magnets could distort the image from the guns in RPTV's - misconvergence, etc....but the speakers will be 3 feet or so above the guts of the TV so there shouldn't be a problem there. Even when placed beside the guns, I don't think the magnets in the woofers are nearly big enough to cause problem...
Now the magnet in the Quatro might cause some issues...

[hmmmm]

Kexodusc, Poneal, Ed or anyone else. I was looking at Madisounds AR.Com kit. Do you recommend adding anything to this list? And are there any other tips you would recommend since you seem to have this down to a science. I want them to be awesome.
The kit includes
2- Peerless 850122 Woofers
2- Peerless 812687 Tweeters
2- Custom AR.COM premium crossovers
2- Bennic DB terminal cups
-Foam, screws, solder and gasket tape

[kexodusc]

Hmmm, you might wish to consider adding a few resistors to the crossover to tweak the high end response to your preference...the stock was quite pleasing to my ears, noticeably less bright than the speakers they replaced, though some prefer a bit warmer still.

I think madisounds kit comes with the square rear terminal cups, not the rounded ones...this is a personal thing, I didn't care since you can't see the backs of these, but some might.
Fancy port tubes with flares is an option too, the I doubt they really make a difference.
You might want some extra foam gasket tape, Madisound is stingy sometimes, depending who picks the order...Speaker grill fabric, black...very cheap...Parts express has them in tan and gray as well if you prefer that.

I countersunk rare earth magnets into the MDF and grill frame so the grill attaches without any hardware showing...just an idea.
Are you building your own cabinets? That's where the awesomeness comes in...
You'll need polyfill for the design, the foam madisound sends isn't all that great for this design...Polyfill is only $3 or $4 at Walmart for enough to do a complete 7.1 system.

Should be good for now...

[EFE Speakers]

I e-mailed Madisound and asked them if they would sell the crossover as I originally specified. That is, with a 5ohm resistor mounted on the circuit board for the tweeter and a separate loose 2ohm resistor to add at the tweeters positive terminal. The 2ohm should attach with male and female quickdisconnects at each end for easy changing later. Make sure to cut the positive wire going to the tweeter short enough to compensate for the added length of the resistor that's added.

The 2ohm resistor at the tweeter is the value I would consider as a starting point when building the kit. If the sound is too bright, then switch to a 3 or 4ohm resistor by simply pulling the tweeter and replacing. Too soft, then replace with a 1 or 1/2ohm resistor. You could go as high as a 5ohm resistor on the tweeter if you prefer a softer sound as Ken seems to desire, it still produces detail but with a much softer overall sound. My recommendation is to try 1ohm steps when tuning to your specific system. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

[hmmmm]

I e-mailed Madisound and asked them if they would sell the crossover as I originally specified. That is, with a 5ohm resistor mounted on the circuit board for the tweeter and a separate loose 2ohm resistor to add at the tweeters positive terminal. The 2ohm should attach with male and female quickdisconnects at each end for easy changing later. Make sure to cut the positive wire going to the tweeter short enough to compensate for the added length of the resistor that's added.

The 2ohm resistor at the tweeter is the value I would consider as a starting point when building the kit. If the sound is too bright, then switch to a 3 or 4ohm resistor by simply pulling the tweeter and replacing. Too soft, then replace with a 1 or 1/2ohm resistor. You could go as high as a 5ohm resistor on the tweeter if you prefer a softer sound as Ken seems to desire, it still produces detail but with a much softer overall sound. My recommendation is to try 1ohm steps when tuning to your specific system. Success!

Ed Frias
EFE TECHNOLOGY Speakers

Thanks Ed and Kexodusc! Ed I'll get the center and surrounds from you after things get a little farther with the DIY Speakers. Can I purchase an extra surround for the 6.1 or do they only come in pairs?
I'm definately going to build the cabinents. I love my router!

[EFE Speakers]

You can purchase a single crossover and drivers from Madisound!

Make sure you read my posting on the proper type of insulation and proper amount, Madisound does not supply this type with the kit. If you cannot find the posting in the archives, e-mail me and I'll be happy to send it to you.

Ed

[kexodusc]

Ed, Hmmm....

I actually have the standard 5+2 ohm arrangement (I tend to like being on the bright side of neutral, off axis listening can soften the brightness some), but 2 of my 6 speakers have the goofy madisound xo's that have the 7 ohm resistor...I did the others myself. I'm happy with the sound overall, but Ed, if it ever came to it, would I still be able to add another 1 or 2 ohm resistor to soften the sound? I've had a few people ask me this about the Madisound xo's - would we just be losing out on the ability to go any brighter? I'm just curious, my amps now are somewhat "bright" sounding, if I ever upgrade the amps in the future, the flexibility might be nice without having to make new crossovers.

Hmmm...if you're up to the task all this above is good reason to either get the Madisound xo that has the 5 ohm resistor with the separate 2 ohm resistor or do the xo's yourself.

[EFE Speakers]

Ken,
Having the 7ohm resistor on the board does not allow you to go brighter without removing the crossover and lowering that resistor value. It would be no problem making the speakers softer, just add another 1 or 2ohm resistor at the tweeter. There is a difference though, 7ohms on the board is not the same as 5ohms on the board and a 2ohm at the tweeter (totaling 7ohms)! The inductor on the tweeter circuit connects from the ground on one side to the positive lead of the tweeter on the other side. Installing the 7ohm resistor before the inductor rather than having a 5 before and a 2 after causes the speaker to measure differently. My design specified only a 5ohm before the inductor and all other resistors to be added after the inductor. Adding the resistor after the inductor simply lowers the efficiency of the tweeter, adding more resistance "before" the inductor causes not only a drop in efficiency, but it also effects the slope designed into the equation. That's why I've asked Madisound to only install the 5ohm on the board and not 7.

My suggestion is to replace the 7ohm resistor on the board to the speicified 5ohm, then experiment with the added resistor at the tweeters positive terminal to get the affect desired. In your case Ken, a 3 or 4ohm would probably be just the right resistance if you change to the 5ohm on the board. Success!

Ed Frias

[poneal]

1. I would get some silicone adhesive in case you get an inductor come loose during shipping. UPS is pretty rough sometimes and this will come in handy in future DIY projects. I personally use contact cement.

2. Buy a roll of that speaker gasket foam with sticky **** on one side from PE. Comes in a 100' ft roll i do believe.

3. Buy a soldering iron if you do not have one and some electrical solder. A 45watt iron should be fine but 35watt is OK, just takes longer to heat up some components.

4. I prefer brass wood screws instead of the black oxide ones.

5. A stripping/crimping tool.

6. Some 14ga 2/14 black/red speaker/security wire

7. Female quick disconnects.

8. If you're going to make grills then get some grill guides and cloth.

9. Might as well stock up on some polyfill.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Regards, Paul

[kexodusc]

Thanks, Ed, I hadn't thought of all this, I assumed that since the network and resistor would be in series, the total 7 ohm effect would be the same.
You've given me an interesting afternoon project...now to try to un-stick that crossover circuit board from the inside of the cabinet. Wish me luck.
4 of the ar.com's have my hack-job crossovers, but with the first two I made I bought the Madisound crossovers...to be honest they're not much more money than the cost of the components, and a bit faster...too bad Madisound altered them.
I've used those crossovers in units I helped others build as well...they're happy, so I might leave things be there...

In the Ken-made crossovers, I used the 2 ohm resistor as per the instructions you have on the website here...I didn't add a resistor to the Madisound ones....I should do a side by side comparison to evaluate the differences.

Now what do I do with two 7 ohm resistors? :D

[hmmmm]

1. I would get some silicone adhesive in case you get an inductor come loose during shipping. UPS is pretty rough sometimes and this will come in handy in future DIY projects. I personally use contact cement.

2. Buy a roll of that speaker gasket foam with sticky **** on one side from PE. Comes in a 100' ft roll i do believe.

3. Buy a soldering iron if you do not have one and some electrical solder. A 45watt iron should be fine but 35watt is OK, just takes longer to heat up some components.

4. I prefer brass wood screws instead of the black oxide ones.

5. A stripping/crimping tool.

6. Some 14ga 2/14 black/red speaker/security wire

7. Female quick disconnects.

8. If you're going to make grills then get some grill guides and cloth.

9. Might as well stock up on some polyfill.

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Regards, Paul

I have just about everything on this list except the soldering iron & the 14ga 2/14 black/red speaker/security wire.

[hmmmm]

I cut the boxes this morning. So much for waiting a couple months to start!

[zamboniman]

just a side note.... The crossovers that I received from Madi a month ago had all 7 ohms of resistance on the board.... HOWEVER it was using the two separate resistors both a 5 then the 2. They were just both mounted directly to the board. So these are easy to modify either bypass the last 2 all together so an external one can be used for tuning. Or if you know which value you want just replace the existing 2 on the board.

[kexodusc]

Hmm, you'll have fun...Incidentally I finally cut and assembled my Quatro sub box...Weighed it too..50.43 lbs empty...Hopefully I'll veneer tomorrow, and start staining...
Going with a a completely circular grill about 2 inches wider than the flush mount cut of the woofer...can't wait.

[hmmmm]

Do you use a circle jig for flush mounting your speakers?

[kexodusc]

Do you use a circle jig for flush mounting your speakers?
Yes, you'll need plunge router as opposed to a fixed base router...If you don't have one, flush mounting becomes awefully difficult, not sure how I'd do it otherwise.

Parts Express sells two circle jigs (the Jasper Jig) which are excellent for building speakers:
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?DID=7&WebPage_ID=3&Start=2&ObjectGroup_ID=442&sm=1&so=2&search_type=81570543&desc=ASC

Of course, if you're like me and enjoy doing things on the cheap, I just use some scrap .25" or 0.5" MDF and make my own jig...takes 5 minutes (the length of time it'd take you to order the Jasper) and costs almost nothing...

There are acoustic benefits to flush mounting the drivers, especially the tweeter...Many tweeters exhibit a rise in response and a loss of the "smoothness" of the frequency response slope as a result of diffcraction...the sound "bounces" off the tweeter plate, then boucnes again off the front baffle causing different intensities at certain frequencies - with many tweeters, it's enough to cause excess hissing and be annoying.

I don't know of any measurements done on the Peerless tweeter in particular, but if nothing else it's worth playing it safe.

It looks better IMO.

For subwoofers, the theory doesn't hold up as well because the size of the wavelengths of frequencies below 200 Hz is such that bouncing off the cabinet front isn't an issue...not to mention our ears are less sensitive to bass frequencies than they are to high frequencies.

.

[hmmmm]

I went ahead and ordered the Jasper Jig today. I do have a plunge router so it will save me some hassle. Who knows, maybe I'll make more speakers in the future. I actually have the grills partially done. I went with a similar design that I used on the sub but was interested in trying the rare earth magnets. With a 1/2" mdf grill frame, how many do I need, where do I get them, and how big? I told you I'd have more questions, but it's your fault for putting these new ideas in my head.
I mistakingly ordered a 30 watt soldering iron. Will this get me by for a couple speakers?

[kexodusc]

Hey hmmm...what you should be doing is ordering once every week or two so you can combine shipping! :D

The earth magnets are round, come in various sizes...I just use a masonry bit or something to cut out a 1/4" hole to sink them into both the grill frame and the speaker (opposite polarities facing each other...these hold so many pounds, don't know exactly...
Then I just veneer over them...don't worry, they hold right through the veneer.
For the 1" grill frame the sub is getting, I used 1/2" magnets for more strenght...I'm going with a completely circular grill for now...but I'm sinking the magnets such that I should be able to change in the future if I'm unhappy.
Which reminds me...try to place these as close to the corners as possible so they don't interfere with the woofer or tweeter...don't think they would but the magnetic fields are strong for these little things...
It's more expensive than using grill pegs, but the clean look on the front, and the invisible cool factor when you throw a grill at it are worth it IMO.

I think a 30 watt soldering iron should do...you might be there a while though...I'm no soldering pro so I'm not the one to answer here, but mine is 40 I think, and it heats things quite quickly.

I get mine from a local woodworking store here in Canada, so I don't know where you'd find them.

[hmmmm]

I finally have the boxes built and the circles cut. That Jasper cutting jig worked great. I have a Ryobi router and since it fits all routers, I had it made...or so I thought. Apparently my router was an older model so it didn't fit. Because I seem to like throwing money away, I bought a new router and all is well. I've decided to go with black in the front and silver on the sides. You won't really see much of the sides anyway. Anyone have tips on applying the partsexpress stick on vinyl?
Ed is sending me the new center channel. I hope it works out o.k. because the one I'm replacing was $400.00 just one year ago. I'm getting $175.00 for it from my neighbor.
Oh, Kexo, I used the magnets and somehow I glued one in wrong even when I was trying to be extremely careful. I glued it in with polyester glue and that thing isn't coming out. Fortunately, these are so strong, just one would hold the grill on. You can't tell it's off a bit.

[kexodusc]

Ed is sending me the new center channel. I hope it works out o.k. because the one I'm replacing was $400.00 just one year ago. I'm getting $175.00 for it from my neighbor.

It's a good speaker, I liked it much more than the $400 Paradigm CC-370 I was using. It wasn't quite on par with my Studio CC, but that was over $500, what can you do.
You'll want to refinish this thing too, though, she ain't pretty.


Oh, Kexo, I used the magnets and somehow I glued one in wrong even when I was trying to be extremely careful. I glued it in with polyester glue and that thing isn't coming out. Fortunately, these are so strong, just one would hold the grill on. You can't tell it's off a bit.
Ya glued one in wrong? What did ya do that for??? :D
I've done that...mine were nicely marked with red dots on the positive side, except the red ink wears off over time...you know where this is going. I used another magnet to pull it out.
Couldn't you just put a corresponding magnet in backwards on the grill to have opposite polarities so it still works?

I use four 3/8" magnets I think, they come with little steel cups to mount them into the wood, pretty slick. A bit pricy, but I have a real hate on for grill pegs.

For the 1" thick circular Quatro grill, I used four 1/2" magnets. That thing ain't movin' at all!

[hmmmm]

It's a good speaker, I liked it much more than the $400 Paradigm CC-370 I was using. It wasn't quite on par with my Studio CC, but that was over $500, what can you do.
You'll want to refinish this thing too, though, she ain't pretty.

Ya glued one in wrong? What did ya do that for??? :D
I've done that...mine were nicely marked with red dots on the positive side, except the red ink wears off over time...you know where this is going. I used another magnet to pull it out.
Couldn't you just put a corresponding magnet in backwards on the grill to have opposite polarities so it still works?

I use four 3/8" magnets I think, they come with little steel cups to mount them into the wood, pretty slick. A bit pricy, but I have a real hate on for grill pegs.

For the 1" thick circular Quatro grill, I used four 1/2" magnets. That thing ain't movin' at all!

I've already glued them in the grill also. This glue is so good, it's not coming out.
I plan on refinishing the center speaker if it's not hidden well enough under the t.v.