i want JM Labs midrange but without the spitty tweeter!!

[rozzar]

sounds odd... i had some Electra 905s which had the most gorgeous midrange, but inisisted on putting a layer of sibilance on all vocals, which got quite tiresome after a while.

I am using a Plinius CDLAD pre, Plinius 8200P power and a SAT upsampling cd player. Leads are of 'satisfactory' ;) quality :D

Am open to suggestions on small standmounts or compact floorstanders.I liked the sound of Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors but don't like the price tag. Thanks :)

[theaudiohobby]

You nailed the sound of the JM Lab Electra's right there, wonderful sound but it does hint of some sibilance, my suggestion since you are in the UK is to try the Proac, ELACs, Spendor, If you can swing it, try the new ELAC 600 X-JET standmount, at a more modest amount the 301.2 JET also come into play, I am not familiar with the models in the proac range, but I like what I have heard from one of their floorstander models.

[rozzar]

ok i'll try a demo with some of the more upmarket ProAC response range. I should add that i've owned my fair share of speakers- Celestion Kingstons (wonderful but impractical), Mordaunt Short Performance 860 (midrange and stereo imaging very poor and unrefined tweeter), Mordaunt short Ms30iclassic (midrange, what midrange??) and found the Electras the most satisfying bar the original complaint :)
I hadn't even considered the Elacs- aren't they metal dome tweeters and thus more susceptible to harshness? The Electras also had metal tweeters, albeit inverted...

[theaudiohobby]

I hadn't even considered the Elacs- aren't they metal dome tweeters and thus more susceptible to harshness?

ELACs, metal dome tweeters, don't think so, The famous JET tweeter is a Heil ribbon tweeter.

[RGA]

You should pick up Hi-fi Choice magazine if you're into European tweeters -- a code word for bright or harsh treble are the words cold and or analytical. I don;t think the problem is necessarily a metal tweeter or a ribbon tweeter because some JM Labs tweeters are some of the best metal designs going -- the inverted tweeter on the Mezz Utopia was smooth. Some designs don't particularly integrate well or lack bass in some way which draws the ear more to the treble. If I can hear each driver then I don;t think it's a good speaker -- interestly many have flat response so it apparently matters much where and at what frequencies there is a divot/rise in the frequency and i suspect time domain.

Generally if the speaker needs to be turned up to make anything out it's a lousy speaker -- it should present full scale with bass and dynamics across the entire frequency range at very very low volume -- I have heard speakers that seem to not even engage the woofer at all until you turn the dial up - very poor speakers.

[Florian]

I agree partially with RGA, because many people have untreateted rooms. Some rooms will cause a raise in lets say 500Hz from 10db plus and therefore cover up the higher frequency range. Electronics and room are the most limiting factors in good sound reproduction. A good way to fix them is with traps like www.realtraps.com or a expensive route over a Digital Room Correction System. And yes these things work wonders, but ar not atainable below 4K new.

-Flo

[Geoffcin]

Generally if the speaker needs to be turned up to make anything out it's a lousy speaker -- it should present full scale with bass and dynamics across the entire frequency range at very very low volume -- I have heard speakers that seem to not even engage the woofer at all until you turn the dial up - very poor speakers.


I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, since your spouting A/N mythology most times; but FYI human hearing response does NOT have sensitivity to "bass and dynamics across the entire frequency range at very very low volume" At low volume a perfectly flat speaker will sound bass shy, and rolled off on the top. It's IMPOSSIBLE to have "bass and dynamics across the entire frequency range at very very low volume" with a speaker that's made to reproduce music accurately.

Now, if your into romantic, colored speakers then YES, you can have a speaker that colored in a way to APPEAR that it's got good bass & treble at low levels, but if you measured it would be horribly out of whack in frequency response. Of course if you have accurate speakers you could engage a loudness contour setting and achieve the same thing. The difference is with one speaker you can turn off the coloration, the other your stuck with it.

[Geoffcin]

sounds odd... i had some Electra 905s which had the most gorgeous midrange, but inisisted on putting a layer of sibilance on all vocals, which got quite tiresome after a while.

I am using a Plinius CDLAD pre, Plinius 8200P power and a SAT upsampling cd player. Leads are of 'satisfactory' ;) quality :D

Am open to suggestions on small standmounts or compact floorstanders.I liked the sound of Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors but don't like the price tag. Thanks :)

I really like ProAc monitors, and since your very sensitive to quality tweeters then your going to like the responce of the soft dome they use. I believe it's made by ScanSpeak.

[RGA]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, since your spouting A/N mythology most times; but FYI human hearing response does NOT have sensitivity to "bass and dynamics across the entire frequency range at very very low volume" At low volume a perfectly flat speaker will sound bass shy, and rolled off on the top. It's IMPOSSIBLE to have "bass and dynamics across the entire frequency range at very very low volume" with a speaker that's made to reproduce music accurately.

Now, if your into romantic, colored speakers then YES, you can have a speaker that colored in a way to APPEAR that it's got good bass & treble at low levels, but if you measured it would be horribly out of whack in frequency response. Of course if you have accurate speakers you could engage a loudness contour setting and achieve the same thing. The difference is with one speaker you can turn off the coloration, the other your stuck with it.

It's not impossible whatsoever -- and if you ever hear a good speaker then you will know -- interestingly QUAD of all people and most planar stats in general do very well or should be doing so at lower volume levels -- that WAS part of the appeal of electrostats in the first place -- was that one could listen late night and still be able to make everything out crystal clear -- which is why I had made sure to and would STILL make sure to have panels on my list when I audition -- this is simple logic if there is bass then it should be there whatever the volume and you should be able to detect it -- one does nto need to play a Viola LOUDER than other instruments live to make it out and one should not have to crank their stereo up to make it out either. This was my problem with the 705 not long ago with Dianna Krall (and a few other discs)-- I was upping and upping the dial on the Bryston pre/power combo because what was missing was the full bodied sound of the piano -- I think most people here understand the rudementary sound of the piano (yes there are different kinds but a Piano still is a Piano and won't be mistaken for an oboe no matter which maker makes the piano) - the other recording was Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata (another Piano piece and one of my favorites and not overtly difficult). Both are relatively small in scale and should be simple.

Up up the volume goes because what should be there isn't there until fnally the volume gets to the pointthe speaker begins to compress and I left shaking my head -- I say nothing of this until the next audition at another dealer and get the same exact thing, and on pop music things got far far worse Sarah Mclachlan who I had just seen live the week before and well same thing. I want to be able to play stuff be it very low volume and have it sound exactly the same as it does at louder levels but merely louder. If it ain't there at the beginning nothing can bring it back. the panels that I have heard do this bit well it's when things get turned up problems seem to arrive and the "kind" of bass presented I've had problems with -- largely because my taste in music runs a very wide gambit -- I do like to put on some Motley Crue and Aerosmith from time to time - just so I can look at the faces of people when I say yeah that's ten watts and at ear splitting level everything is coherent including the brush on cymbals to the growl of the motorcycle and to the shagrin of metal folks they can also understand every word spoken by Steven Tyler/Vince Neil unfortunately one can understand every word spoken feel the snare drum tight bass not just sorta hear it go puff. Granted there is a budget to consider and that is what we all have to live by.

[Geoffcin]

It's not impossible whatsoever -- and if you ever hear a good speaker then you will know

And also the psychological reasons behind you never admitting that your just plain wrong.

[theaudiohobby]

You should pick up Hi-fi Choice magazine if you're into European tweeters -- a code word for bright or harsh treble are the words cold and or analytical.

I think you should read the Hi-Fi Choice glossary. ;)

[Florian]

And also the psychological reasons behind you never admitting that your just plain wrong.

Agreed !!

-Flo

[shoe]

If you were at a live venue and the bass player was barley touching the strings, would you be able to detect it? Even if other instruments were also playing quietly?

[theaudiohobby]

If you were at a live venue and the bass player was barley touching the strings, would you be able to detect it? Even if other instruments were also playing quietly?

Yes, if you are close enough :p

[abstracta]

Ahh, the debate that's beeb going on since the beginning of time. Do you prefer the emphasis of "cha, cha" with soft domes, or the tingy "szzzz", "szzzz" and overt buzziness and occasional beaming of small metal domes.

Although not particularly common, I've found designs that use a ribbon tweeter augmented with a fairly large soft dome tweeter solve the problem nicely without resorting to planars.