Denon 1602 vs. Yamaha RX-V440 ?

[RandyClark]

Hello all,

I had been wanting to purchase a new set of speakers to create a separate stereo-only system for my living room for some time (my HT setup is in my basement rec room). My plan was to use an old, unused Kenwood VR-205 to drive the speakers until I could afford something new. Today was "boxing day" with many electronics stores discounting their merchandise to clear it out. I ended up purchasing Dahlquist Qx8 speakers for around the equivalent of $225 USD. On impulse, I also purchased a Yamaha RX-V440 for the equivalent of $225 USD.

I am very happy with the new speakers. I have a bit of buyer's remose on the receiver, but it was an okay price and, due to the store's "exchange only" policy, I cannot easily return it even if I wanted to.

Unfortunately, I now need to decide where to put the new Yamaha RX-V440 and where to put my existing Denon AVR-1602. The Yamaha is still sitting in the box, so I'm not sure how the sound quality compares. My gut tells me to replace the Denon in the HT setup with the Yamaha and move the Denon upstairs to the new stereo setup. My rational is that Yamaha is newer and supports 6.1 channels (which I don't plan to use) and various other new HT features that may or may not be of any use to me.

Before I spend many hours switching receivers, I really would appreciate any advice/opinions you may have. Just FYI, my low-end HT speaker setup includes Axiom AX 1.5 fronts (predacesors to the M3Ti), midize axiom center, 10" Axiom sub and old Teac bookshelf surrounds.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[spacedeckman]

Try them both ways. Watch a movie, swap in the Yamaha, make decision.

Actually, I would just throw the Yamaha into the HT system and bring the Denon upstairs. I'm assuming here that you will spend most of your time doing HT. The Yammy has better processing for HT, and although to my ears has the better amplifier, the processing will probably rule the day here in your priority scheme.

[gorilla196635]

I owned the 1802 and traded up to a higher end Yamaha RXV995. I believe the Denon was better musically and the Yamaha sounded better for movies. One reason was that the Denon was weaker in the surround channels. You can adjust for the volume but I had to turn up the sound quite a bit to hear anything. While the Yamaha has all channels set flatlined and the sound very even. I also believe the DSP's in the Yamaha are better. Perhaps if you were stepping up to the more expensive Denon's that would be a different story. However my experience is as I have said Yamaha for movies Denon for music.
One more thing the Denon seemed to have a cleaner sound for music.

[spacedeckman]

any comparison of Yamaha to any current product should be made with an RXV800/1000 or later. The 995 was a wonderful piece, but the 800/1000 were completely re-engineered and sonically blow the old stuff away. It is amazing how much difference there is between them. Yamaha put a lot of money into the front end, and it was money well spent. Much of that has now trickled down into the lower models.

Sonically, nobody else has taken such a leap. I have yet to find a receiver that sounds as open, dynamic, or tight on the bottom end. It's amazing how old stories with maybe a shred of truth become standard lore in the audio business. Every audio dedicated site is littered with posts about how much more musical the Denon pieces are, or Marantz, or fill in the blank. But it is usually Denon, especially in the upper price brackets.

Go listen for yourself. Get something with some good clean vocals and soundstaging to play, 2 channel only, no processing, everything bypassed. If you have an Ultimate store nearby it is fairly easy. Use the $800 RXV1400 and compare it to the largest Denon in the same room. The Denon will have a smaller soundstage, with a smaller overall presentation. The midrange will sound "pinched" or kind of congested (I have been told that is "warmth", but I've spent many hours with single ended tube amps and know what "warmth" means..it doesn't sound like that. The Yamaha will best it in the bottom end, both in extension and definition (again, warmer?), and will have more open and smoother highs. Things change in the world...sometimes they don't. Yamaha made a major change over 4 years ago, the others really haven't. So over the past few years the gap has widened to my ears, not narrowed.

[gorilla196635]

I agree the 995 is an older model, but it was around when the Denon 1602 or maybe the 1601 was around. One thing I am not sure I agree with is this quote you made
"Go listen for yourself. Get something with some good clean vocals and soundstaging to play, 2 channel only, no processing, everything bypassed."

If someone normally listens to metal or some other form of music, why would they listen to something so different to audition a piece of equipment. I do believe all types of music should be demo'd but the main demo should be of the music listeners preference.

Also, when I listen to music everything is bypassed no matter what. It is the cleanest way to listen.

[spacedeckman]

Actually, the more complex the music gets, the better the Yamaha fares in comparison.

I used the example of a female vocal and something with a wide soundstage to highlight the most obvious differences. You can take it anywhere you want from there.

[Keith from Canada]

I have yet to find a receiver that sounds as open, dynamic, or tight on the bottom end. It's amazing how old stories with maybe a shred of truth become standard lore in the audio business...

I would just point out that your entire post should be prefaced with a statement indicating that these are your opinions and are not necessarily shared by others. I for one have done the critical auditioning that you recommend and I have come away with very different conclusions that your own. I personally do prefer the sound of both the Marantz and Denon over the equivilent Yamaha and I certainly did not find that either of these brands had a "smaller soundstage", "pinched midrange" or whatever other negative comments you've sited.

When giving advice, it is important to make it clear that you are expressing your opinion and not fact. If you can support your comments with some statistics, then perhaps you could make a factual claim however, you are referring to your personal observations in this case.

[zapr]

any comparison of Yamaha to any current product should be made with an RXV800/1000 or later. The 995 was a wonderful piece, but the 800/1000 were completely re-engineered and sonically blow the old stuff away. It is amazing how much difference there is between them. Yamaha put a lot of money into the front end, and it was money well spent. Much of that has now trickled down into the lower models.

Sonically, nobody else has taken such a leap. I have yet to find a receiver that sounds as open, dynamic, or tight on the bottom end. It's amazing how old stories with maybe a shred of truth become standard lore in the audio business. Every audio dedicated site is littered with posts about how much more musical the Denon pieces are, or Marantz, or fill in the blank. But it is usually Denon, especially in the upper price brackets.

Go listen for yourself. Get something with some good clean vocals and soundstaging to play, 2 channel only, no processing, everything bypassed. If you have an Ultimate store nearby it is fairly easy. Use the $800 RXV1400 and compare it to the largest Denon in the same room. The Denon will have a smaller soundstage, with a smaller overall presentation. The midrange will sound "pinched" or kind of congested (I have been told that is "warmth", but I've spent many hours with single ended tube amps and know what "warmth" means..it doesn't sound like that. The Yamaha will best it in the bottom end, both in extension and definition (again, warmer?), and will have more open and smoother highs. Things change in the world...sometimes they don't. Yamaha made a major change over 4 years ago, the others really haven't. So over the past few years the gap has widened to my ears, not narrowed.
What are the main differences between the 995 and say the 1400 in terms of sound?

[pgtt1]

I am having troulble with my 1802
@ 0 volume I hear a hum can any
help ? :confused: