Opinions/Recommendations Wanted

[larrye]

Hi and Happy Holidays to Everyone!

I am looking to "upgrade" my home component system, and was interested in recommendations. I currently own some very old 70s/80s vintage componenets (Ohm H speakers, JVC JA-S77 Integrated Amp, Onkyo Cassette Deck, Hitachi FT4400 Tuner, Sony CDP-70 CD-Player). I was never happy with the Ohm speakers ... and the Integrated Amp and Cassette Deck are shot.

My listening patterns and tastes: wide variety of music ... little bit of jazz, little bit of show music, but I would say 80-90% classic rock, current rock, and current day stuff like Creed, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Counting Crows, Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind, etc (no rap). I live in an 800 sq. ft. apartment.

I don't consider myself to be an advanced audiophile, but I do consider myself to be above the average listener is quality expectations (somewhere in the middle). I like some enhanced clarity and separation, and also like some bass separation.

Here's my dilemma. Without a working amp, the rest of my system is unusable. I think the future seems to be Home Theater, so I'd like to pursue that. It would seem logical that I should think along the lines of replacing the amp with a Home Theater Receiver first. That way, I would then have a usable system with speakers and CD player. However, I eventually want to replace the Ohm speakers ... I never felt that they had adequate bass (in those days, Infinity would have been the way to go, but it's a long story as to why I chose Ohms).

I know enough (I think) to know that one should purchase a receiver or amp that adequately drives ones speakers. Yet ... I'd really prefer to not have the expense of a new receiver and speakers all at once ... especially since I have "usable" speakers. So what should I do? Just pick a suitable receiver that I hope will drive whatever speakers I eventually decide on, or just resign myself to having to purchase them all up-front?

The next question is what to consider in terms of components. I know this is a matter of opinions/tastes, but it would appear that in terms of home theater receivers, I should consider Yamaha or Denon (figure on price point $500-$1000). I have heard pretty consistently that Yamaha has a crispness at higher volumes that Denon doesn't have.

In terms of speakers, do I have to have 4/5 speakers if I am using a Home Theater Receiver, or can I start with 2? What speakers are good nowadays that have good bass separation and emphasis (figure on price point $1000-$1500 total for either 2 or 4 speakers).

Thanks so much for your help!

Larry

[poneal]

Yes a receiver will get you going again. A recevier is an amp/preamp/tuner combination. Denon and Yamaha make a decent midrange receiver. I would put Harman Kardon in this niche too. For $799.00 you can get the Harman Kardon AVR-330 7.1 receiver. Here's a link:

http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.asp?cat=REC&prod=AVR%20330&sType=C

I would get the receiver and hook up all your components to it and see if you like the sound. If not, then you can slowly upgrade your speakers, etc. Now the above receiver has 7 channels. If your just using 5 thats fine. You could use the spare two channels to drive another room. You may also be able to sell your old amplifer on ebay to help recover some of the money-even if it dont work. Some fix-it people buy nonfunctional equipment for a hobby. Anyways, I would start with the receiver and work my way up since a receiver is the most cost effective way to get up and running. Separates are usually more expensive but usually give better performance. For me, I'm happy with a receiver.

[woodman]

Yes, an A/V receiver should be your first step - and NO, you do not need to wait to get a receiver and speakers together in order to insure "compatibility".

I disagree completely with those that will recommend Denon or Marantz to you. They used to be worthwhile brands, but since their sale to a group of investment bankers, their support for the consumer has gone downhill rapidly. They still build products that perform well, which is at the heart of the problem. People that say "let your ears be the judge" fall victim to this without knowing any better. While it IS true that you could buy ANY model of ANY brand and have everything work out well ... no problems, and a happy ownership experience, your odds of that are significantly decreased with certain brands. H-K is yet another example of a brand that has had some serious reliability problems in recent years.

If you value reliability and support from a company, Yamaha is the clearcut leader of the pack. I'd highly recommend the RX-V1400 from that company as quite probably the biggest VALUE in the market today in an A/V receiver. Get one of those to start with and go from there. You can start with just your two speakers and whatever other components you have and build your system as your budget will allow.

Hope this helps you

[spacedeckman]

listent to the man

[Worf101]

I like what Yamaha's doing and my Yammie components are rock solid. But in all the home theatre's I've installed nothing goes in slicker and easier (a concern with a newbie trust me) as Onkyo... I'd recommend the 701... feature laden and pretty solid. Just another suggestion..

Da Worfster

[larrye]

Thanks for the help, guys!

I have listened to a H-K car stereo, and was very unimpressed.

What is interesting is that none of you seem concerned about how well the receiver I choose will match up to speakers. I am a bit surprised. I have read other discussions where the experts seem to really focus on this. I really want to eventually be able to get some good speakers that will have good bass separation. Also, I have heard that some HT receivers are good with the HT, and others are good with stereo. But very few are good with both. I think I might be down to Yamaha, NAD, and Denon (I will have to bring some CDs in and listen to them).

Any recommendations on speakers? Do I have to get a sub in order to get good bass separation?

Larry

[Worf101]

don't believe there's much to this "receiver's having a particular sound" type stuff, particularly with HT receivers. How your speakers sound to you, regardless of the HT receiver is the most important thing.

Da Worfster

[Monstrous Mike]

Thanks for the help, guys!

I have listened to a H-K car stereo, and was very unimpressed.

What is interesting is that none of you seem concerned about how well the receiver I choose will match up to speakers. I am a bit surprised. I have read other discussions where the experts seem to really focus on this. I really want to eventually be able to get some good speakers that will have good bass separation. Also, I have heard that some HT receivers are good with the HT, and others are good with stereo. But very few are good with both. I think I might be down to Yamaha, NAD, and Denon (I will have to bring some CDs in and listen to them).

Any recommendations on speakers? Do I have to get a sub in order to get good bass separation?

Larry
This notion of HT receivers being better at stereo or multichannel is a bit of stretch for me. If you think about it, an HT receiver has 5, 6, or even 7 identical amplifies in it. I don't see how only using the two front channel amps for music and using all amps for surround sound is going to have some kind of sound difference. While this may be cynical, I believe lots of rumours are started and propegated in audio circles that are designed to get you to buy more equipment.

As others have suggested, step one is to get a state of the art HT receiver that will have all the functions you will need for years to come. Right now is a good time to get one. Most mid range products have DD EX and DTS ES processing along with Dolby Pro Logic II. You will likely want one with component video switching because you are eventually going to need it.

I wouldn't worry too much about matching speakers to your HT receiver. Almost all of them are 80-120 watts per channel so there is an extremely large range of speakers that will sound just fine with these receivers.

After your receiver, I think your next purchase should be a decent subwoofer. Again this does not have to "match" with any other component. You will use the LFE output on the HT receiver and the subwoofer will have its own amplifier. A sub is almost a necessity for good DVD movie watching and will give your music listening a low end boost.

Lastly, if you are going to be playing DVD movies you are going to need a minimum of 5 other speakers and perhaps another rear centre channel. At this point, would say you should buy those remaining speakers as a set for two reasons: cost savings for buying them as a package and you want your speakers to be the same brand (i.e. same tweeter for timbre matching.

There are many settings on the HT receiver that you can use to blend your bass management and compensate for speaker placement.

Good luck and post back if you have any further questions.

[Norm Strong]

I think you should forget all the things you've read about Yamaha and Denon. It's all audio myth. Once these myths get started, they seem to have a life of their own that is completely disconnected from reality.

[nightflier]

...I like some enhanced clarity and separation, and also like some bass separation. ...I never felt that they had adequate bass... What speakers are good nowadays that have good bass separation and emphasis (figure on price point $1000-$1500 total for either 2 or 4 speakers).


I had a similar situation when the equipment that was handed down to me from my father (really old Philips audiophile stuff) stopped functioning. As far as clear sound reproduction goes, nothing has come close to Super Audio CD. I listen to a lot of classical, and I know that there are very few classic rock SACD's out there, but I am hoping that there will be more variety in the near future. If so, you really should consider this as an option for when you have 5 or more speakers, so make sure that the receiver you select has 5.1 channel inputs.

On my system, I used my father's old speakers until I could replace them with newer speakers. They then became surround speakers until I could phase them out. For me, this was the best option as it gave me time to save for the expensive pieces and to audition each component at my own pace with my older equipment that I knew well. I also have a good friend who has the same receiver model that I have so we've also had the opportunity to do some blind testing of speakers in his garage (not overly scientific, but accurate enough for us).

Although this is a matter of personal taste, I settled on Polk Audio speakers for full-bodied music while I put Axiom speakers in my TV room as they seem to be better for movies (I don't have the larger Axiom speakers and I've been told that they are much fuller). I also purchased an SVS subwoofer to add to the punch in my TV room, by far the best purchase I ever made: there is nothing out there that can compare at $650. It is a little tricky to get the sub tuned with the other speakers, but with a little tweaking I got just the sound I needed. I currently have lower end Polk speakers in my office where I listen to music, but I have auditioned the LSi series and they are extremely good speakers IMHO. The LSi7 is an excellet bookshelf speaker while the LSi25 is a great tower speaker with substantial bass extension, which could hold you over until you get a sub, but again, this is just my opinion.

I auditioned several receivers in my home and I found that, everything being equal, the Harman Kardons really sounded fuller, especially their heavier flagship models (I really liked the AVR7200). I would have settled on HK, but I got such a great deal on Onkyo that I am using that for now. I can say that I am still wishing for the HK, but the Onkyo is loud and very configurable as well, so I am certainly not complaining. The TX-NR801 is phenominal and has an assignable 5.1 input as well as pre-amp outputs if you want to add a large amp in the future.

HK also has a new all-digital line of receivers that is supposed to be very crisp and clear, but I haven't auditioned them. If you plan to add a hi-fi cd player and connect it digitally, then this may be worth considering, but since SACD uses 6 analog channels, I didn't quite see the benefit. (I am curious to hear about anyone else out there who has used one of these receivers...).

Hope this helps.