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hershon
03-16-2005, 11:35 PM
As I've ever really connected a DVD-A player to a receiver can someone tell me how many cables I need: Is it 6 component cables or 1 optical cable to get 5.1 sound. Will either of them produce the same sound or will one method give better sound then the other? Any recommended cables to get, or will I get the same quality results with something I get at Radio Shack than something I'd get at a high end store.

drseid
03-17-2005, 03:02 AM
As I've ever really connected a DVD-A player to a receiver can someone tell me how many cables I need: Is it 6 component cables or 1 optical cable to get 5.1 sound. Will either of them produce the same sound or will one method give better sound then the other? Any recommended cables to get, or will I get the same quality results with something I get at Radio Shack than something I'd get at a high end store.
6 quality individual RCA audio interconnects from Radio Shack should work fine... You can't use a digital connection due to copy protection issues (thank you record studios again)...

---Dave

LEAFS264
03-17-2005, 05:08 AM
You most certainly CAN use a digtial connection if you have i-link on your player and receiver. Not everbody does,but to say it is not possible is just wrong.

Jay

kexodusc
03-17-2005, 05:18 AM
Yes, those goofy i-links can support a digital hi-rez transfer. But, Hershon, I'm pretty sure you don't have an i-link input on your new Denon so 6 of the "gold" Radio Shack cables is fine...I used them, they'll do the trick.
Alternatively, you can usually find some Acoustic Research cables dirt cheap on ebay. I tend to like the AR cables just a wee bit better, not so much for sound, but they just have a better, more snug fit IMO and feel like a higher grade of cable. I seriously doubt there's much of an audible difference, if any, though, but if it makes you feel better, the AR cables have a much higher retail price so maybe they are better?(as if price means anything). Not exactly a scientific approach on my part, but I sleep a wee bit better at night believing the AR cables are small step up on the Radio Shack cables.

Of course, you'd have to wait for shipping...and Rat Shack is just around the corner from everyone...either way you'll get that player up and running!

drseid
03-17-2005, 06:37 AM
You most certainly CAN use a digtial connection if you have i-link on your player and receiver. Not everbody does,but to say it is not possible is just wrong.

Jay
This does not appy to Hershon, as he uses a JVC receiver. I was speaking specific to his system... Yes, I am aware of i-link, but most people don't qualify... Even my DVD-A Player from Denon does not have it, as it is not as recent (and I don't use a Denon receiver either, for that matter)...

---Dave

hershon
03-17-2005, 06:51 AM
I just bought this Harmon Kardon 31 DVD(-A) player to go with the Denon 3801 Receiver I got on sale (I'll probably resell both on Ebay with my track record!). In the event I don't like this Denon Receiver , I'm also going to try to see if the HK 32 DVD(-A) player when attached to my
JVC receiver improves sound quality.

As far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong here, if I connect this HD-DVA player via optic cable to my JVC receiver unit (which already has a built in DVD player to play DVD-A), it will play DVD-A right on the JVC? Therefore, why can't I just use an optic cable to connect the DVD-A player to the Denon 3802 receiver? If not, I'll probably take the suggestion here of buying on Ebay the Accoustic Research Cables. Thanks for your help.



This does not appy to Hershon, as he uses a JVC receiver. I was speaking specific to his system... Yes, I am aware of i-link, but most people don't qualify... Even my DVD-A Player from Denon does not have it, as it is not as recent (and I don't use a Denon receiver either, for that matter)...

---Dave

kexodusc
03-17-2005, 06:59 AM
Hershon: Did you get the 3801 or the 3802?

LEAFS264
03-17-2005, 07:02 AM
6 quality individual RCA audio interconnects from Radio Shack should work fine... You can't use a digital connection due to copy protection issues (thank you record studios again)...

---Dave




It sounded like you ment it couldn't be done do to copy protection issues.
Which is not true.
I'm sorry if you ment it another way.

hershon
03-17-2005, 07:03 AM
Hershon: Did you get the 3801 or the 3802?

It's the 3801, thanks for corrrecting me.

N. Abstentia
03-17-2005, 07:09 AM
As far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong here, if I connect this HD-DVA player via optic cable to my JVC receiver unit (which already has a built in DVD player to play DVD-A), it will play DVD-A right on the JVC? Therefore, why can't I just use an optic cable to connect the DVD-A player to the Denon 3802 receiver? If not, I'll probably take the suggestion here of buying on Ebay the Accoustic Research Cables. Thanks for your help.

Because the optical cable will not pass the MLP signal for DVD-A..because of copy protection. If you use only the optical cable then you can only get DD and DTS and NOT DVD-A.

hershon
03-17-2005, 07:13 AM
Because the optical cable will not pass the MLP signal for DVD-A..because of copy protection. If you use only the optical cable then you can only get DD and DTS and NOT DVD-A.

Thanks for clarifying that. I am so sick of these fat cats with their copy protection noncense! Do they think we really care if Brad Pitt or Bruce Willis only makes $2 million a picture instead of $15 million or if U2 only grosses 5 million on an album instead of $20 million?

JSE
03-17-2005, 07:17 AM
Because the optical cable will not pass the MLP signal for DVD-A..because of copy protection. If you use only the optical cable then you can only get DD and DTS and NOT DVD-A.

Exactly right. The "ONLY" way for your to get DVD-A sound from your player to your particular receiver is to use the 6 individual cables. Anyone who tells you different is wrong.

I have the 6 cables run for DVD-A, plus the optical cable for digital sources, plus component cables for video. That's 10 cables. Ug!

JSE

shokhead
03-17-2005, 07:27 AM
And dont forget,when playing DVD-A,the only thing your reciever does is volume so you have to set up the bass management in the DVD player.

MomurdA
03-17-2005, 09:46 AM
Are you saying that if i go spend a few hundred dollars on a dvd a player, i cant use digital optical or dig coax to hook it up to my receiver, and get surround sound from my disc? This only works with movies, not my $25.00 dvd auido discs?? I have to go buy the six individual rca cables? What about SACD?

shokhead
03-17-2005, 10:15 AM
Who said that? DVD-A and SACD uses the 6 analogs from player to reciever and uses the bass management from the player. Your dig outs are for cd's and DVD's and you use the reciever for everything.

LEAFS264
03-17-2005, 10:16 AM
Are you saying that if i go spend a few hundred dollars on a dvd a player, i cant use digital optical or dig coax to hook it up to my receiver, and get surround sound from my disc? This only works with movies, not my $25.00 dvd auido discs?? I have to go buy the six individual rca cables? What about SACD?


Thats right you MUST use the 6 interconnects for SACD and DVD-AUDIO.

paul_pci
03-17-2005, 10:52 AM
Hershon, let me point one more thing out. If you send the Denon back to the rock from which it climbed out, your JVC does not have 6-channel analog inputs, therefore, no DVD-A from your Harman Kardon (or any other player). So, if you really want DVD-A, I think you and your new Denon should become fast friends.

LEAFS264
03-17-2005, 10:58 AM
Hershon, let me point one more thing out. If you send the Denon back to the rock from which it climbed out, your JVC does not have 6-channel analog inputs, therefore, no DVD-A from your Harman Kardon (or any other player). So, if you really want DVD-A, I think you and your new Denon should become fast friends.



You hit the nail right square on the head!!!!!!!!


Jay

markw
03-17-2005, 11:14 AM
Are you saying that if i go spend a few hundred dollars on a dvd a player, i cant use digital optical or dig coax to hook it up to my receiver, and get surround sound from my disc?Welll, you CAN get surround sound from yer basic movie DVDs but not from DVD-A or SACD. For these you need those six analog cables.



This only works with movies, not my $25.00 dvd auido discs??Correctomundo!



I have to go buy the six individual rca cables?Only if you want to avail yourself of all that DAD-A and SACD have to offer. If all you want is a standard DVD player with no hi rez capabilities, then no.



What about SACD?Yep. They need those six analog cables just like DVD-A..

hershon
03-17-2005, 11:33 AM
Hershon, let me point one more thing out. If you send the Denon back to the rock from which it climbed out, your JVC does not have 6-channel analog inputs, therefore, no DVD-A from your Harman Kardon (or any other player). So, if you really want DVD-A, I think you and your new Denon should become fast friends.

I'm hoping not to annul my marriage with the Denon 3801(I read various reviews which were extremely positive) but in the event I do, given my track record, my JVC actually does play DVD-A from the built in DVD player & actually I'm not that big a fan of DVD-A or even SACD as they stand now, in their early phases- which is to say there are some good DVD-A's out there like Yes's Fragile but most of the ones I've gotten (& resold on Ebay) have been either reprocessed stereo like the God awful Silverline Record Company releases of 60/70's English albums or mediocore like Tommy which Pete Townshend mixed himself, so that's not a deal breaker.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed though. I was very impressed with your TV 5.1 surround sound on your Yamaha.

kexodusc
03-17-2005, 12:09 PM
Can't speak for all DVD-A's and SACD's, but the dozen or so I own are all absolutely fabulous improvements over their CD counterparts, though some excel only in the 2-ch hi-rez format which some gear might not faithfully be able to present to it's maximum potential (how audiophile of me was that to say?). See my review on Beethoven's 5th and 7th SACD in the Rave Recs forum for an excellent disc!!!

Hershon, have any DVD-A's or SACD's left your looking to get rid of?
Also, Hershon, does your JVC unit actually play the MLP/DSD tracks on DVD-A's/SACD's, or does it play the DD/DTS or CD layers?

shokhead
03-17-2005, 12:54 PM
Just a question? Why didnt you get the 2105 instead of a used older model?

JSE
03-17-2005, 12:56 PM
I'm hoping not to annul my marriage with the Denon 3801(I read various reviews which were extremely positive) but in the event I do, given my track record, my JVC actually does play DVD-A from the built in DVD player & actually I'm not that big a fan of DVD-A or even SACD as they stand now, in their early phases- which is to say there are some good DVD-A's out there like Yes's Fragile but most of the ones I've gotten (& resold on Ebay) have been either reprocessed stereo like the God awful Silverline Record Company releases of 60/70's English albums or mediocore like Tommy which Pete Townshend mixed himself, so that's not a deal breaker.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed though. I was very impressed with your TV 5.1 surround sound on your Yamaha.


I may be wrong, but I have yet to see a receiver with a built-in DVD player that handles DVD-A. Any DVD player will play a DVD-A disk but you will not get the actual DVD-A sound unless it's a DVD-A player and the 6 analogs cables are connected. Without these, you are not listening to DVD-A sound. You are hearing the DTS, DD or 2 channel tracks.

I bet there are a whole lot of people out there buying DVD-A disks and thinking they are hearing DVD-A sound when they really are not due to improper equipment or lack of the 6 analog cables.

JSE

shokhead
03-17-2005, 01:32 PM
That was my thought,most likly DD or DTS. DTS and its using all the speakers and thought is was DVD-A. See,the DTS sounds great to.

hershon
03-17-2005, 02:19 PM
Just a question? Why didnt you get the 2105 instead of a used older model?

I originally got the Denon 2105 on sale from a place in LA called Magnolia for around (off the top of my head) $700 on sale. It didn't sound anything better than my JVC. I was going through Ebay a few days ago and they had the 3801 as a Buy it Now feature for $450 including shipping (no tax) & as I recall, and I may be totally wrong on this, the higher the Denon number the better the receiver is (the 3000 series is better than the 2000 series, and so on. The seller who has an excellent reputation listed it as being in perfect cosmetic & operating condition and hardly used. I looked up some reviews on this system, and they were all great (like when I read about Orb Audio for the first time). So I figured, why not give this one more shot especially for the money? If I'm not happy with it (or think that its an improvement over the JVC), I should be able to recoup most of the money by reselling it on Ebay. The Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player I bought for $250 including shipping I got on Ebay new also using Buy it Now after having researched it as well online and liking what was said. I didn't see any cheaper prices online anywhere.

Anyway, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

hershon
03-17-2005, 02:24 PM
That was my thought,most likly DD or DTS. DTS and its using all the speakers and thought is was DVD-A. See,the DTS sounds great to.

According to the Specs, the JVC plays DVD-A. When I played DVD-A discs, I clearly heard 5 different individual channels of sound on 5 different speakers (i.e. lead vocals on left front, lead guitar in center, drums on right, backing vocals on rear left, rhythem guitar on rear right for example). I'll check in a few minutes the wording on my receiver when this is played.

MomurdA
03-17-2005, 03:30 PM
You most certainly CAN use a digtial connection if you have i-link on your player and receiver. Not everbody does,but to say it is not possible is just wrong.

i-link is firewire, right? IEEE 1394??

hershon
03-17-2005, 03:52 PM
I just checked this out by playing Rem's greatest hits that i just got yesterday on DVD-A & is very good (I heard this at Paul BCI's & thought it was worth getting).

Anyway, on my JVC DVD receiver when you play a DVD-A there is a seperate button that lights up when DVD-A is played which says DVD-A. Besides seeing all 5 speakers & a sub liight up on my receiver controls the letters PPCM LFR & BSE all appear on my control panel window when this DVD-A is played.

LEAFS264
03-17-2005, 05:13 PM
i-link is firewire, right? IEEE 1394??



Yep, you got it!

shokhead
03-17-2005, 06:22 PM
I just checked this out by playing Rem's greatest hits that i just got yesterday on DVD-A & is very good (I heard this at Paul BCI's & thought it was worth getting).

Anyway, on my JVC DVD receiver when you play a DVD-A there is a seperate button that lights up when DVD-A is played which says DVD-A. Besides seeing all 5 speakers & a sub liight up on my receiver controls the letters PPCM LFR & BSE all appear on my control panel window when this DVD-A is played.

What model is your JVC?

hershon
03-17-2005, 06:43 PM
RX-DV31SL

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000093USS/qid=1111113788/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-6388857-7155134?v=glance&n=507846

shokhead
03-17-2005, 07:28 PM
Seems to be geared more towards Audio then Video. I hate to say it but i'd use it with different speakers.

hershon
03-17-2005, 07:57 PM
Seems to be geared more towards Audio then Video. I hate to say it but i'd use it with different speakers.

Well this is one I totally disagree with you. In fact the creator's of Orb specifically recommend this system to their customers as well as giving their customers the option of buying it direct from them.

shokhead
03-18-2005, 04:46 AM
And Ford says,use 87 gas,its made for your car and it works but you try 91 and WOW! :D It seems your looking for more or different and your reciever doesnt look to bad,whats left to change? Why did all of this start if your happy with the setup,just trying to upgrade for a better sound or a different sound? If thats the case, a reciever wont make much difference but speakers will. If you want to keep those,return the other stuff and keep what you have.

kexodusc
03-18-2005, 05:02 AM
And Ford says,use 87 gas,its made for your car and it works but you try 91 and WOW! :D .
I'm going way off topic here, but just a note on this...most cars today use electronic fuel injection with a ton of sensors and regulating devices all based on 87 grade octane (with some SUV and sports car excetions)...using higher octane over periods of time can actually cause a lot of things to go out of whack (though the engine is usually fine). When I was at Honda we debated whether to launch a marketing campaign about informing the public against using higher grade octanes...we consulted with other car companies, and came to the same conclusion: the public wouldn't like hearing that their cars can't handle high-octane gas...

Kind of reminds me of Ed Norton's bit in "Fight Club" where he talks about if the cost of class action lawsuits are cheaper than the cost of a safety recall, they don't do it.
(note: I never saw or heard any evidence of this from any company, but I have to admit I was pretty low on the corporate totem pole).

Anyoooo..applying this to speakers, I guess the analogy is better speakers don't always jive with the rest of the system, though I would argue you have to eliminate that possibility before arriving at that conclusion.

LEAFS264
03-18-2005, 05:43 AM
Kex, your wrong about the fuel. The gas that is sold in Canada and the U.S is one of the worst quallity you will find in the world. We have so much dirt in our gas it's not funny. That is why most cars today all have fuel level sensor problems,because of all the crap that gums them up and prevents them from reading the correct fuel. I work for General Motors,and trust me when i tell you,if you can afford the little bit extra for the plus fuel....not the high test. You will be saving your self hundreads maybe thousands later down the road. The plus and high test fuel burns cleaner and will get you a few more km's to the tank as well.


Jay

kexodusc
03-18-2005, 05:57 AM
Leafs264: That's almost the complete opposite of everything we were told, GM was one of the companies we consulted with...mind you I worked in marketing and later finance, and it was those offices we talked with, I won't dare profess to being a technician or engineer.
I know the we issued TSB's to our technicians/garages recommending to advise people to not use plus/premium gases...that decision usually came from Troubleshooting (the so-called engineers and experts). It's in quite a few owners manuals these days too, I'll have to check what it says in my Accord later today.
Their arguement wasn't so much that the gas was hard on the engine, or didn't burn clean, but something along the lines of the injection system sending a certain amount of fuel to be combusted based on the typical energy 87 octane would create, if the ocatane grade was increased, the calculations were still made based on 87 (within a +/-), so the higher the octane the worse the problem? I dunno...

Then again, these are the engineers that design cars with all the flaws in the first place, so what do they know. :D

So you work for GM? What's the deal on the G-6? Looks like a nice little car for my fiancee...anything bad I should know about it?

shokhead
03-18-2005, 06:38 AM
Well i think its more then 87,more and more high torque/HP V-6 engines every year. My 02 is 240HP/246Torque and it says you can use 87 and the computer will redo so you dont knock but at a lower performance. Best performance should run 91. What i was saying is speakers will change the sound more then a reciever or more then the 3801 over the JVC.

LEAFS264
03-18-2005, 08:11 AM
Kex, If there is ONE thing i have learned from my years at GM is NEVER,EVER,EVER buy a first year production car. The G6 is a very sweet car.....but it is new. Give the boys down at the plants time to get the bugs out.... especially that sunroof. Give it 1 or two years if you can wait.


Jay.

kexodusc
03-18-2005, 08:37 AM
I wouldn't get that goofy sunroof, I don't think...not worth the rediculous price tag it comes with...they offer a normal sunroof, too, I believe. It's the lady's call though.
Enough thread-jacking for one day, though...