What is considered vintage?

[soupnazi]

Does vintage have to be x_years old?
I don't know if anything from the 80's would be considered vintage, but I would say most equipment from the 70's or earlier would be.
If it is just an old piece of junk would it still be considered vintage just because it is old?
I would like to hear anyones opinions on this subject, it is just something that seems undefined to me.
Thanks

[cod]

Hello there

"What is considered Vintage?"

Well in Hifi terms, it should mean a timeless classic, that still sounds and performs to discerning listeners long after it has been out of production. A market leader of quality in its time? Quad gear is a fine example.
Built well and sounds excellent after all this time. But sometimes people put vintage to any old tat thats old, its not Vintage, its just old.

Andy

[squeegy200]

There are some very fine classic hardware produced in the 80s that would argueably make many "Vintage" lists.

Almost every Top 100 list I've encountered included favorites like the NAD 3020 or the Dahlquist DQ10. Yet both of those items were produced well into the 80s.

[Geoffcin]

Does vintage have to be x_years old?
I don't know if anything from the 80's would be considered vintage, but I would say most equipment from the 70's or earlier would be.
If it is just an old piece of junk would it still be considered vintage just because it is old?
I would like to hear anyones opinions on this subject, it is just something that seems undefined to me.
Thanks

I would put vintage anything older than 20 years. Of course there's some great stuff from even older, but 20 years seems to be a good cutoff point for calling stuff vintage.

[cod]

I dont think vintage has to be a specific age, just something exceptional from its time.

[michael]

It would have had to have stood the test of time, ie, still working well, highly regarded. Quad 22 and 33 and 404 are good examples However, the 99 is absolutely the pits. They are trying to do something with the Quad II-forty which seem to be pure nostalgia! Give me the real thing, or should I say give me back the real thing as I had a pair of 22 amps and a preamp, WOW!

[Buzz Roll]

I usually try to distinguish between vintage and classic. There's a lot of "vintage" junk out there, and some not-so-old classics. I don't really think of my Mac amp as vintage because it was made in '91. The model was, however intoduced in 1978 and is an excellent performer, so I guess I'd consider mine sort of a classic. The earlier models (say before '85ish), I would label vintage (and classic!).

[Shwamdoo]

My sweet-ace C.A.L. Icon CD player is what I consider vintage in the CD category. It is just about 15 years old, but I consider it "exceptional from its time". I may be a bit of a maintenence monster, but its nothing that can't be fixed with some petroleum jelly and electical tape. Plus, the sound is still fantastic.

[Pyrrho]

Does vintage have to be x_years old?
I don't know if anything from the 80's would be considered vintage, but I would say most equipment from the 70's or earlier would be.
If it is just an old piece of junk would it still be considered vintage just because it is old?
I would like to hear anyones opinions on this subject, it is just something that seems undefined to me.
Thanks

It is not "undefined"; it is merely vague. Your question is a bit like asking when something should be considered to be "old". "Old" is a vague and imprecise term, not an undefined one. Any attempt to add precision to the term will result in a change in the definition of the term.

[Chas Underhay]

It is not "undefined"; it is merely vague. Your question is a bit like asking when something should be considered to be "old". "Old" is a vague and imprecise term, not an undefined one. Any attempt to add precision to the term will result in a change in the definition of the term.

The term "vintage" when it comes to cars is generally considered to be pre 1930 or there abouts depending on yur country of origin. Anything later than that is universally considered to be "classic".

If I were asked to define vintage for HI FI, I would probably say equipment (good quality of course) that was in production more than 40 years ago, ie pre 1965 and there was quite a lot of it, Quad and Leak valve equipment, Garrard turntables, Ferrograph tape recorders etc etc. None of it would be solid state and in fact most of it would be mono. Anything later than that would, if it was good enough, would be defined as classic.

[CharlieBee]

Wood case and silver front (not black) classic, highest quality, high performance equipment of mainly the 70's.

Charlie

[Chas Underhay]

Wood case and silver front (not black) classic, highest quality, high performance equipment of mainly the 70's.

Charlie To me, vintage HI FI means low volume, generally home produced eguipment from, for the want of a better term, "the pioneering days of home music reproduction". I dont know much about Americian equipment but I'm sure that there would have been some excellent kit around, I remember names like Voight and Klipshe, was Ampex Americian? also it all looked quite individual. It was seldom if ever wood sleeved because in those days the equipment (except speakers and possibly power amps) was normally all housed in a wooden cabinet which the lady of the house dilligently dusted and polished. There are a lot of people who use things like original Quad and Leak valve power amplifiers, some even use the original pre amps (probebly OK if you don't need the integral phono stage) and many a Garrard 301 has been removed from its highly polished wood cabinet and re housed in a block of granite and produces excellent results.

In my opinion, the type of equipment you describe is too modern, too samey (similar looking) and too much of it was of Far Eastern origin for me to consider it "vintage" The industry had already achieved excellent quality sound reproduction by the mid sixties and after that the improvements were mainly in power output and affordability (Far Eastern mass production for you).

You wouldn't call a 747 a vintage airliner and they have been around since the seventies or maybe earlier but a Super Constellation definately!

[Brian Levy]

There are 2 categories to deal with: 1) classic and 2) vintage. Classis is not really an issue of age but of something that is of such quality or sets a standard for others to be measured against and is universally recognized as such. Vintage is an age or generational related issue. For instance, based on several years of monitoring discussions there is pretty much universal agreement that pre digital is vintage. There is a smaller group that sees it as pre-plastic faceplate and others as pre-black face plate. Still others sense it is not as age dependent but and include early digital such as the 1st gen CD players. The tube crowd sees it further back as pre-ss or through the transition years to ss encompassing the early hybrids and germanium ss units. Some of the problems encountered is that there are technology overlaps so if it is pre-digital including tuners, then the cutoff could be far earlier than many suspect since digital readout tuners first appeared in the early '70s and only a couple of years later computerized and digital tuners appeared from Scott and Sherwood, well before the "digital age".

Quality is not a marque of vintage in the strict sense if age or technoligy derfine. For instance a Model T is not considered a high quality vehicle though it is/was a reliable workhorse that sold more than almost any other vehicle. But few would deny it vintage status and only the issue of quality seems to bar it from classic status though in comparison to other like goal designed vehicles such as the VW and Citreon 2CV it might be a classic.

Another example and closer to home is a classic recceiver is the Marantz 18 that set a quality standard in ss receivers. Admittedly, the Fisher collectors of the US designed and produced SS units probably would argue this and Fisher probably set the standard for most companies in terms of layout looks, etc. than Marantz and I personally also place the 600 and would place at least 1 of the 1st gen ss units in the classic category if not more. The 19 evolved from it and established the classic Marantz looks for years. Neither sold in high numbers. While some think the 2270 is a classic there is nothing it sets a standard for in terms of quality (especially) or sound.

[Chas Underhay]

There are 2 categories to deal with: 1) classic and 2) vintage. Classis is not really an issue of age but of something that is of such quality or sets a standard for others to be measured against and is universally recognized as such. Vintage is an age or generational related issue.

Quality is not a marque of vintage in the strict sense if age or technoligy derfine. For instance a Model T is not considered a high quality vehicle though it is/was a reliable workhorse that sold more than almost any other vehicle. But few would deny it vintage status and only the issue of quality seems to bar it from classic status though in comparison to other like goal designed vehicles such as the VW and Citreon 2CV it might be a classic.

I would say a Model T would have been a very good quality item for it's day. It would not necessarilly fair to judge it against exotica such as a Bugatti but I wouldn't mind betting that reliablity and service intervals of a Model T was comparable to a Bugatti. I would consider it worthy of both vintage and classic status.

I also think it could be argued that a VW or 2CV would also be classics on the grounds that they certianly did set standards for others to be measured against. The one condition is that they should be original models rather than the ones still produced 40 years later in the same sense as 1960s Mini Cooper S (don't forget it could thrash most things on a race track) would be a considered classic but not the 1990s copies or current models.

I guess there will never be agreement on what constitutes vintage for hi fi equipment but for me at least, it's got to look "vintage" and that means something like cream or light admiralty grey paint and polished walnut not brushed aluminium or oiled teak.

Oh yea and it's still got to sound bl**dy good.

[Brian Levy]

The auto community has developed the guidelines of these classifications and the T, 2CV and VW fall outside of the Classic category officially as does the Mini in any form. I can think of a good # of autos I personally would class as such but the hobby has developed firm guidelines, something we do not have to deal with in our hobby.

I tend to view very few items as classic since I tend to think of the classification as the best of the best. Not a standard but THE standard by which others are measured.

[Chas Underhay]

The auto community has developed the guidelines of these classifications and the T, 2CV and VW fall outside of the Classic category officially as does the Mini in any form. I can think of a good # of autos I personally would class as such but the hobby has developed firm guidelines, something we do not have to deal with in our hobby.

I tend to view very few items as classic since I tend to think of the classification as the best of the best. Not a standard but THE standard by which others are measured.

To which "auto community" do you refer? please define, because it you are refering to the CCCA, they are one small club in one big world.

You seem to have a very blinkered view as to what constitutes "classic". Conversly to you, I veiw many items as classic and this is based upon things like technical achievment, suitability for purpose, legnth of production, popularity as well as just quality. By your standards, nothing short of a Bugatti or a Bentley is worthy but in fact a VW was a greater technical achievment, it was more suitable for purpose, etc etc.

Do you consider a Supermarine Spitfire less classic than a Supermarine S6? The Spitfire was thrown together as quickly as possible (there was a war on) but the S6 was very carefully built as a 1 off to compete in, and win the Schneider Trophy