March Music Madness: Miles Davis vs. Jimi Hendrix

[newtrix1]

Please vote for your favorite between these two masters of their respective instruments: Miles Davis & Jimi Hendrix

[newtrix1]

No doubt these 2 artists are huge music icons, and left immense impact on their respective musical genres and instruments. However Jimi's career was short as compared to Miles' (just check AMG.com (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=MIW020503111012&sql=11:5gjweau04xa7~T2)), I also think Miles was more important to jazz than Jimi was to rock, but ultimately, I'm sticking with my voting plan of chosing my favorite which is easily Jimi. Sorry Miles, my loss, but I never developed a taste for this style of jazz. :(

[nobody]

Apples and oranges big time here.

But, another one that for me isn't even close to being close. From my point of view, Miles was far more important in the history of music than Hendrix, plus, in my case I just flat out enjoy listening to him more. I'd miss little if I could never hear Hendrix again. If I couldn't listen to Walkin', Relaxin', Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, In a Silent Way and many more, I'd be very, very depressed.

Besides, we were born in the same town...I gotta vote for him.

And, of course, your opinion is your opinion and I have no right to mess with it, but I do find it very odd indeed when people say they don't like Miles's style of jazz as he played many, many styles over his extremely long career. If you like jazz at all, you are bound to find something in his catalog that would appeal.

[20to20K]

Man you just asked me to choose between my two favorite musicians of all time.
How dare you? I refuse!

O.K...if I must...I would have to go with Miles just because his body of work touch so many generations. I mean this guy played with Charlie Parker(40's), Kenny Garrett(90's) and every significant jazz mucisian in between. He instigated every shift in jazz styles during those periods from cool to bop to modal to fusion to (unfortunetely) smooth. All the while doing experimental projects along the way (classical, spanish flemenco, even rap).

One interesting thing (that you probably knew) was that Hendrix and Miles had agreed to cut a record together just before Hendrix went out on the tour that he never returned from.
Miles talks about it in his autobiography. They even had the studio rented out and the supporting muscians had already been assembled. Can you imagine what kind of music those two would have made together...it boggles my mind!

Hendrix was not around long enough to go in the many different directions he talent could have led him. I would have loved for him to explore his blues talents a little more indepth and also to hear his music recorded when the recording technologies improved throughout the 70's. On the other hand if it weren't for Hendrix just about every rock movement that took place after 1968 probably would not have occured. We could still be listening to rock that sounds like the Beatles, the Yardbirds, and the 60's Stones. That's pretty deep.

It's a tough call...

[MindGoneHaywire]

>if it weren't for Hendrix just about every rock movement that took place after 1968 probably would not have occured.

Gotta disagree strongly with that one. Off the top of my head I'd say that singer-songwriters (Neil Young, Tom Waits, Bruce Springsteen) owe deeply to Bob Dylan, nothing to Hendrix; punk rock is way more in the vein of the Velvet Underground & MC5, both of whom had recs out by 1968; country-rock (Flying Burrito Brothers, Poco et al) doesn't sound much like anything Hendrix ever did to my knowledge and neither does the more recent alt-country; disco went more to the heart of European funk, and maybe a moment or two from outfits like Sly & The Family Stone; and I don't hear much of a Hendrix influence in genres like postpunk or Britpop, either. Give the man his due, but let's not overstate the case that wildy, please.

Hendrix was perhaps the most innovative rock guitar player of all time. Miles may have been the single most visionary musical figure of the 20th Century. Some claim he got credit for innovations actually pioneered by others, but I have yet to see conclusive proof that he doesn't deserve the accolades he's received. Hey, Louis Armstrong gets the credit for more or less 'inventing' jazz, sort of, so who knows. I'm sure a historian could refute some of his credited accomplishments if he really wanted to. Now, I don't much care for most of Miles' music after 1965 or so. However, though it's not to my taste, he did keep pushing artistic boundaries, arguably at a high level, for roughly two decades after that. It's tough to compare that to Hendrix, whose career was cut so short. But if Kind Of Blue is Miles' best work...does Hendrix have a record that is rated as highly in the world of rock music? I don't think so.

But ultimately that don't mean much if you like his music better. I don't. I think I have about 25 Miles albums & about 4 or 5 Hendrix albums. Guess which get played more in this house? Now, this is not to denigrate Hendrix, but I do think that there are aspects of what he did that get praised without taking into consideration the contributions to his sound & technique made by Dick Dale, who mentored him. If you take that away you've still got a guy who jerked strings like noone before or since, and at least a fistful of great tunes. And a great showman. But you know what? Give me Pete Townshend instead. I play my Who records far more often than I reach for Hendrix. Miles had a run of about 15 years where I don't think he made one bad record (well...maybe the Carnegie Hall Concert). Some are better than others, but between Birth Of The Cool, Sketches Of Spain, Milestones, Stella By Starlight, Miles Ahead, Round About Midnight, Someday My Prince Will Come, Workin'/Steamin'Cookin'/Relaxin', Musings, Dig, Porgy & Bess...and of course KOB...that's a tough legacy to top. No contest for me.

[newtrix1]

One interesting thing (that you probably knew) was that Hendrix and Miles had agreed to cut a record together just before Hendrix went out on the tour that he never returned from.


No, I did not know this! Thanks for the info.

[20to20K]

[QUOTE=MindGoneHaywire]>if it weren't for Hendrix just about every rock movement that took place after 1968 probably would not have occured.

You know I have to admit...that Hendrix comment was quite hyberbolous and I apologize.
Even after I sent it and read it I kind of said.."GEEZ...that was a bit much". You were right to call me on it.

On the other hand...Louis Armstrong did not invent jazz. As a kid growing up in New Orleans Armstrong was notorious for sneaking into hoar houses(where his mother worked) to hear Jelly Roll Morton and others who were inventing jazz at the time. Louis was inspired by those guys but it wasn't until he put in jail did he start playing instruments. Another N.O. jazz great, King Oliver, gave him his first big break in the early 20's and he took it from there.

As important as Armstrong was to jazz...I don't think it can compare the multitude of styles and innovations accredited to Miles IMO.

Yeah, your right...Miles music took dramatic shifts in the mid sixties when the Shorter/Hancock/Williams/Carter band started breaking up. They all went in different directions and started looking for their own identity. Miles took them as far as he could and now they wanted to flex their creative muscles. That's when Miles started all his electric experiments. I actually liked some of them...hated others. Then he all but disappeared throughout the 70's.

[Mr MidFi]

Jeez...another tough call here. This isn't just apples-to-oranges, it's apples-to-raccoons.

I'm going with Hendrix. Miles was more influential, and arguably the "greater" artist. But as a personal preference, I like Hendrix because I like rock more than jazz.

[DarrenH]

While I like Hendrix, in no way does it compare to how much I like Miles Davis. I've pretty much got Miles' complete discography including box sets. And alot of pre-1949 material when he played with Charlie Parker. I enjoy all phases of his musical development. Many folks don't like his electric period but I gleaned onto it the moment I first heard B!tches Brew. Completely fascinated by what I heard. I then picked up Jack Johnson and the Pangaea-Agharta live sets and Live Evil and Dark Magus (live at Carnegie Hall) and the Fillmore concerts and finally the funkified On The Corner. His comeback period (1980 and after) is very spotty at best. Some of it is down right atrocious but you can find some good moments in there.

I really wonder sometimes the music Jimi would've made had he lived longer.

Darren

[MindGoneHaywire]

It's cool. Just something I couldn't let go. By the way, I saw a very interesting post recently on the Asylum relating to the development of early jazz. Great stuff, check it out:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/music/messages/118089.html

Haven't heard all the recordings Miles did from 1965 up until his death, but the last album--Doo-Bop, the rap album--I liked better than anything I've heard that he did going back to In A Silent Way...which I only heard for the first time about a year ago, thanks to Mad Rhetorik. And I like that record (not *****es Brew, tho), which surprised me. I've just heard so much dross from him from the 70s & the 80s (I guess On The Corner was a worthwhile listen, if only for historical purposes) that it was difficult to imagine I'd like it, but it's definitely a keeper. *****es Brew, on the other hand...

[newtrix1]

And, of course, your opinion is your opinion and I have no right to mess with it, but I do find it very odd indeed when people say they don't like Miles's style of jazz as he played many, many styles over his extremely long career. If you like jazz at all, you are bound to find something in his catalog that would appeal.

My first Miles Davis experience was with his (arguably most highly acclaimed) album Kind of Blue, which is the style I was referring to. The unstructured free-form, improvisational style that separatde him from his peers. That album just never caught on with me. I do like jazz, but in general I prefer "basic" structured jazz (vocals, bass, piano) the kinda stuff you can tap your foot to. I've since picked up Birth of the Cool & Porgy and Bess, which are more up my alley. But bottom line, I guess I'm more of a rock guy, and Jimi's flailing guitar gets my juices flowing more.

[MindGoneHaywire]

BTW Rick, I don't think Miles would be considered a 'master' of his instrument, not at all. He was a musical visionary, but not a great technical player. In fact, there are some sticks in the mud who seem to not like his music on the basis that he wasn't a great player. Which is their folly, but it's akin to not liking the Beatles because John Lennon wasn't a great technical guitar player.

My father used to say that Miles' work had a built-in frustration to it, because he so rarely could hit the notes he really wanted to at certain times (due at least in part to his reputed lack of proficiency). That frustration added some tension to his work & probably enhanced it in some way...if his theory is correct. He also felt that it had something to do with Miles' legendary personality quirks. But then my father thinks the moon is made out of green cheese.

[20to20K]

BTW Rick, I don't think Miles would be considered a 'master' of his instrument, not at all. He was a musical visionary, but not a great technical player. In fact, there are some sticks in the mud who seem to not like his music on the basis that he wasn't a great player. Which is their folly, but it's akin to not liking the Beatles because John Lennon wasn't a great technical guitar player.

My father used to say that Miles' work had a built-in frustration to it, because he so rarely could hit the notes he really wanted to at certain times (due at least in part to his reputed lack of proficiency). That frustration added some tension to his work & probably enhanced it in some way...if his theory is correct. He also felt that it had something to do with Miles' legendary personality quirks. But then my father thinks the moon is made out of green cheese.

From what I understood it was these kind of frustrations that also led him to drop out of Julliard after only a few weeks because he couldn't "dig" the technical crap they were trying to shove down his throat. Truth is he never learned how to play technically. He jumped straight from Julliard dropout to hanging the streets on NYC with Bird, Roach, and Dizzy. His prowess was improvosation, which existed at the time (Bird, Hawkins, et al), but he took it to a new level...particulary on an instrument, like the trumpet, that was usually played pretty straight.

Let's not fool ourselves though...Miles didn't play "badly". But when you think of a technically profiecient trumpet player you think of Hubbard or Marsalis...not Miles.

[mad rhetorik]

Jebus, this was tough.

On the one hand... I own all of Jimi's studio albums plus <b>Band Of Gypsys</b>, love him to death, place his guitar work above just about everyone in the rock/blues canon, acknowledge his huge influence on virtually every rock lead guitarist after him..

However, I can't deny that Miles is perhaps the most visionary figure of jazz music ever, over his 40-plus years of existence. And <b>Kind Of Blue</b>, <b>Sketches Of Spain</b>, <b>Milestones</b>, <b>Round Midnight</b>, <b>...The Miles Davis Quintet</b> series, <b>Miles Smiles</b>, <b>In A Silent Way</b>... that's one hell of a resume. Sure, his last 2 decades of output were generally not to my tastes, but he still had a large role in developing fusion, for better or worse, and worked with the best in the biz (Monk, 'Trane, Evans, Parker, Williams, McLaughlin... the list goes on forever).

This one goes to the Prince. By a hair.

[Worf101]

Wow, this isn't even apples to oranges, this is like comparing anvils to pillows. Jimi was/is a comet and shooting star... FIRE!!!!!! Miles was swing, bop, cool, fusion and whatever he wanted to be. Both are influential beyond mere words but their arenas are so far apart their respective realms so disparate as to have either lose to the other is a crime. A better set of battles would've been...

1. Gillespie vs. Miles. - Same instrument same general span of career.

2. Miles vs. Monk - Se above.

3. Miles vs. Ellington - There's a heavyweight fight if ever I saw one.

4. Miles vs. Armtrong - Like Ford vs. Chevy guranteed to cause a ruckus.

5. Hendrix vs. Van Halen - Goes on all the time.

6. Hendrix vs. Stevie Ray Vaughn - There's one I'd like to see expored.

7. Jimi vs. BB King, Albert King or Lonnie Brooks.

I think you get my drift????

Da Worfster :cool:

[Woochifer]

If you're looking at prowess as an instrumentalist, then I would go with Hendrix all the way. Hendrix's pure skill as a guitarist and the way that he pushed the boundaries with what could be done with the instrument is a lot more than what Miles did with the trumpet. Miles was not the greatest trumpet player, nor the most technically skilled musician. But, what he brought to the table was great imagination as a band leader and original thinker as a soloist. Taking the sum of the parts, I think it's Miles going away.

Hendrix's career was way too short, and in fact, he last album was pointing in a lot of jazz-influenced directions. Hendrix had the potential to pave a lot of very original paths in how the rock and jazz worlds intersected, but he passed before we got to see his ideas fully develop.

Miles on the other hand went through multiple incarnations, and consistently pushed the boundaries of jazz. IMO, B*itches Brew is one of the great accomplishments in music because it successfully blurred the line between rock and jazz. You can't neatly categorize that album because even within the jazz-fusion milieu that developed throughout the 70s as an outgrowth of the album, B*itches Brew is still a very original creation.

I saw The Complete B*itches Brew Sessions and some of the other Columbia Miles Davis boxed sets on sale at Borders a few weeks ago for $20. Those are very much worth getting because they not only give you a landmark album, but all of the backing tracks, alternate takes, and tracks that led up to that particular album. They also provide very well written essays and documentation of the sessions.

I'm listening to "Spanish Key" as I write this.

[newtrix1]

I kinda like Miles vs. Hendrix...get my drift? ;-)

[dean_martin]

Please vote for your favorite between these two masters of their respective instruments: Miles Davis & Jimi Hendrix

This is another close one for me, sorta like the Doors v. Beach Boys poll. I was into Hendrix and the Doors at 15. I came to appreciate Miles and the Beach Boys later in life. The difference is that with the Beach Boys, my only interests are Pet Sounds and Brian Wilson's attempt at Phil Spector's wall-of-sound production approach. That's not quite enough to beat the impact the Doors had on me many moons ago.

After several albums, I'm still exploring and enjoying the Miles catalog. I find these 2 polls (Doors v. Beach Boys and Miles v. Hendrix) come very close to distinguishing my listening habits at teens/early 20s from what I listen to now. I have to give Jimi his props and if it was Jimi vs. the Doors, Jimi would win. But, I Iisten to something by Miles almost every day. So Miles gets my vote. I haven't pulled out the Jimi vinyl in a while, though I probably will tonight.