Floorstanders in the 4-4500 $ (CDN) range

[Waxxiemann]

I have been looking for a pretty high efficency speaker to act as the full range in a 2 channel system in a largish room. I have been saving like crazy and I don't want to suffer buyers remorse. I'll be driving them with a MF A3.2cr.

Because I live in a city w/ VERY few high end audio stores, I would probably have to ship them in and not be able to audition.

I have been considering the following:

Monitor audio GR60 (don't know how much these cost)
Silverline Sonatina 3's (more than I want to pay)
Meadowlark Osprey (just the right price)

I need some more ideas. I am willing to buy second hand under the right conditions. I want to stay away from electrostats, modular and active speakers.

help me!

[drseid]

I have been looking for a pretty high efficency speaker to act as the full range in a 2 channel system in a largish room. I have been saving like crazy and I don't want to suffer buyers remorse. I'll be driving them with a MF A3.2cr.

Because I live in a city w/ VERY few high end audio stores, I would probably have to ship them in and not be able to audition.

I have been considering the following:

Monitor audio GR60 (don't know how much these cost)
Silverline Sonatina 3's (more than I want to pay)
Meadowlark Osprey (just the right price)

I need some more ideas. I am willing to buy second hand under the right conditions. I want to stay away from electrostats, modular and active speakers.

help me!
Could you please give us a bit more information? How about your music preferences, etc...

There are a lot of good options in your new or used price range (and this is a range I am pretty familiar with), but in order to give you the best information, a bit more information would allow us to give you better options...

Thanks,

---Dave

[Waxxiemann]

I listen to mostly classic rock, vocal jazz and sometimes stuff like Beck and the Red hot chili peppers and even some punk rock. I like a very broad range of music.

My room is a basement with low (7') ceilings and is a very odd shape with wall to wall carpet and lots of obsticals. It is about 25' long and about 15 wide with in an "L" type shape. You have to see it to know what I mean but it is a very odd shape. I would most likely be placing this system in (or close to) the corner of the room.

I am looking for a smoothish type sound I want to stay far far away from fatiguing sound.

I like to listen to my music at usually high volumes (I won't lie).

As a side note: I am not completly opposed to a sub/sat system but I would prefer floorstanders.

If there is anything else, let me know and I will try to answer to the best of my abilities.

Thanks for the reply

[20to20K]

I'm think your range converts to about $3000-$3500 US. I've recently been auditioning speakers in that range with the thought of upgrading my $1500 floorstanders (Polk LSi15s). Here is what I found that I've liked:

1) Sonus Faber Grand Pianos($3500) - Excellent bass extension, very smooth sound,
neutral mids and high...very unlikely to fatigue. Relatively compact size (considering the bass extension) and attractive finish

2) B&W 804 ($3500) - Nice sound but the mid's and highs were a little more forward.
Not fatiguing to me...but others may find it so. Nice classic B&W style. This is last years model without the new Diamond tweeter.

3) B&W 703 ($3000) - Not that impressive...kind of dull sounding. Mids were OK (female vocals sounded quite nice) Bass was all over the room but not in the sweet spot. Probably requires finiky positioning.

4) Thiel 2.3(~$3000) - Did not like these at all. Bass sounded muffled to me and vocals had echo. Could only listen to these for a few minutes.

Another speaker I enjoyed listening to below this price point was the Paradigm Studio 100 ($2200).Only the Fabers sounded significantly better and the 804's were only slightly better to my ears.

All of these were driven by Rotel electronics and I was listening to mostly male and female vocalists, acoustic jazz, and jazz fusion.

Of course speaker sound is 100% subjective so you (or everyone else) could have a completely different view on all these speakers. But you asked for opinions and I never met and audio enthusiasts who didn't like giving his opinon!

Good Luck!

[Buzz Roll]

Based on your criteria and amplifier, I would suggest the Meadowlarks. I've A/B'd them directly to Paradigm's Studio series and I think you'll find the Paradigms fatiguing and much less musical (Sorry 20 to20K! but I'm on the same page with the B&Ws). One of the stores near me caries Musical Fidelity and I've heard those amps paired with Meadowlark with nice results.

The other consideration is a pair of Ohm Walsh series. They're not as sexy as the others that you mention, but since you're auditioning at home, the Ohm's have a money back return policy. They sound somewhat like the Meadowlarks with a smooth open sound that just makes the room sound huge. They sound great with any material and can handle high volume levels without compression. They are amazing, underrated speakers, with great customer service. I'm running mine with a McIntosh amp and I'll never go back to conventional floorstanders (with the exception of maybe Meadowlark).
Here are two reviews, I have the Talls in my apartment:

6moons audio reviews: Ohm Acoustics Walsh Micro Tall
6moons audio reviews: Ohm Walsh 4.5.2 upgrade to Ohm Walsh 4

[drseid]

I agree with 20to20K on the Sonus Faber Grand Piano Homes... They impressed me quite a bit in your price range. New, they would probably be my choice given your sound preferences (which happen to coincide with my own).

Used, you could possibly go with a pair of Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature System Speakers (5K new, but about 3-3.5K used)... These, like the SFs can give a nice smooth sound, but bass extension is much lower, with even better resolution. I went with these (but my version has the monitors and bass modules as a two piece system that is rear ported... you would want the front ported one piece system that has the same exact specs and price). Efficiency is quite high with these as well, so power will not be a problem.

Good luck!

---Dave

[20to20K]

Based on your criteria and amplifier, I would suggest the Meadowlarks. I've A/B'd them directly to Paradigm's Studio series and I think you'll find the Paradigms fatiguing and much less musical (Sorry 20 to20K! but I'm on the same page with the B&Ws). One of the stores near me caries Musical Fidelity and I've heard those amps paired with Meadowlark with nice results.

I have to admit...I didn't listen to the Paradigm's that long...the salesman just played them as kind of a "gee whiz...check these out" thing as I was headed out the door. He threw in one of his own CD's as I had already packed mine up and I heard just one track. Hardly a audition I would base a puchase decision on.

I also have to admit that I've never heard the Meadowlarks before. I've heard great things about them, but they've never been in any of the shops I've been auditioning at.

[topspeed]

Wow, a lot of interesting stuff at this price point. For a sub/sat system, a Spendor/REL set-up would do nicely and give you more placement options than floorstanders. For floorstanders, you might audition Von Schweikert's VR2's (http://vonschweikert.com/vr2.html) and if you can find some used, the VR4 jr's (http://vonschweikert.com/vr4jr.html) are receiving a lot of well deserved attention these days. Both are very transparent, not fatiguing in the least, scale upward with equipment, and possess dynamics that will knock your socks off. Albert Von Schweikert has been one of the most respected and innovative designers in audio for awhile now (he's responsible for the Eggleston Andra II). The Von Schweikert website has links to reviews if you want to learn more.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.

[kexodusc]

My absolute favorite commercial speakers in this range are the FS-688 and FS-788 by Focus Audio (hmmm, actually, these are probably my favorite commercial speaker period at any price)...the 688's are bookshelfs ($3000), the 788 are floorstanders($5000)...You might have to work a bit to get the $5000 USD price tag into your budget, but I think they can be had for $4500 or less (CDN), if you find them used, jump on them.

I like the VR2's as well..but you've got a ton of options...Man, I'd like to be in your shoes.

Have fun.

[46minaudio]

Wow, a lot of interesting stuff at this price point. For a sub/sat system, a Spendor/REL set-up would do nicely and give you more placement options than floorstanders. For floorstanders, you might audition Von Schweikert's VR2's (http://vonschweikert.com/vr2.html) and if you can find some used, the VR4 jr's (http://vonschweikert.com/vr4jr.html) are receiving a lot of well deserved attention these days. Both are very transparent, not fatiguing in the least, scale upward with equipment, and possess dynamics that will knock your socks off. Albert Von Schweikert has been one of the most respected and innovative designers in audio for awhile now (he's responsible for the Eggleston Andra II). The Von Schweikert website has links to reviews if you want to learn more.

Good luck and enjoy the ride.
Im going to listen to a pair of VR4jrs tomorrow...

[topspeed]

Im going to listen to a pair of VR4jrs tomorrow...
Post your impressions, I'd like to know what you think of them. Do you have any idea what the front end is going to be? Albert uses VAC monos for shows but also has an AN SET and Spectron switching amp at their sound room. I heard the VR11's with an Electracompaniet/Spectron front end and in the immortal words of Keith Jackson, "Whoa, Nelly!"

Hopefully they will be broken in, the VR4jr's tweeter needs a bit to settle down. Have fun!

[drseid]

Post your impressions, I'd like to know what you think of them. Do you have any idea what the front end is going to be? Albert uses VAC monos for shows but also has an AN SET and Spectron switching amp at their sound room. I heard the VR11's with an Electracompaniet/Spectron front end and in the immortal words of Keith Jackson, "Whoa, Nelly!"

Hopefully they will be broken in, the VR4jr's tweeter needs a bit to settle down. Have fun!
Yeah, those VR-11s are some speakers... I heard them earlier this year with EMM electronics driving them, and the experience was absolutely sublime... VS makes excellent speakers on the whole, IMO. Now if only those VR-11s did not look so much like tall robots (and cost $120K/pr...). Well, I guess you can't have everything... :-)

---Dave

[RGA]

I would be leary buying unheard for this kind of money but since one criteria or preference was non fatiguing and corner placement and full range then Audio Note is a safe bet with stands. The J or E can be had around your budget and will beat and or match most floorstanders for bass - such as the $16k Wilsons or B&W N801 - neaither of which has the bass depth of the E and neither are remotely as good sounding IMO as cohesive instruments

Not knowing your taste in music - I say this because they play any kind of music equally well - they are basically taking the best qualites of horns and stats and adding a sizeable helping of bass - My concern is your amplifier...they prefer tubes and no feedback designs -- not a big deal but you won't get the very best out of them.
Some other users have written about them so feel free to browse some of the information they posess. The J and E are both high sensitive high efficiency and have bass well below 30hz (the E extends under 20hz). Anyway further info can be had from other forumers.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=speakers&n=170755&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=speakers&n=74993&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=speakers&n=173895&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=speakers&n=124418&review=1
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=speakers&n=102595&review=1

I am biased to this company because they make the best systems I have heard in my 15 years in the hobby. Dealers will ship for home auditions. They make the entire audio chain from start to end http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=general&n=345133&review=1

[Geoffcin]

I listen to mostly classic rock, vocal jazz and sometimes stuff like Beck and the Red hot chili peppers and even some punk rock. I like a very broad range of music.

My room is a basement with low (7') ceilings and is a very odd shape with wall to wall carpet and lots of obsticals. It is about 25' long and about 15 wide with in an "L" type shape. You have to see it to know what I mean but it is a very odd shape. I would most likely be placing this system in (or close to) the corner of the room.

I am looking for a smoothish type sound I want to stay far far away from fatiguing sound.

I like to listen to my music at usually high volumes (I won't lie).

As a side note: I am not completly opposed to a sub/sat system but I would prefer floorstanders.

If there is anything else, let me know and I will try to answer to the best of my abilities.

Thanks for the reply

That's short for Big *** Floorstanders.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1115597047

Here's what I would be looking at for ~$4k used. (in a dynamic speaker)

These puppies are just the ticket if your looking to fill your room with high quality audio.

A Review;

http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/297/

The guy htat's selling these is in Canada. A neighbor of yours maybe?

[topspeed]

Hey Geoff, what about your Ref 3's? That might be a good solution, especially with the plate amp.

[topspeed]

Yeah, those VR-11s are some speakers... I heard them earlier this year with EMM electronics driving them, and the experience was absolutely sublime... VS makes excellent speakers on the whole, IMO. Now if only those VR-11s did not look so much like tall robots (and cost $120K/pr...). Well, I guess you can't have everything... :-)

---Dave
Hehe, they're freakin' big too, huh? "Sublime" is an apt description, well said. You should have seen how ridiculous the jr's looked in front of them during the demo.

[Pat D]

I have been looking for a pretty high efficency speaker to act as the full range in a 2 channel system in a largish room. I have been saving like crazy and I don't want to suffer buyers remorse. I'll be driving them with a MF A3.2cr.

Because I live in a city w/ VERY few high end audio stores, I would probably have to ship them in and not be able to audition.

I have been considering the following:

Monitor audio GR60 (don't know how much these cost)
Silverline Sonatina 3's (more than I want to pay)
Meadowlark Osprey (just the right price)

I need some more ideas. I am willing to buy second hand under the right conditions. I want to stay away from electrostats, modular and active speakers.

help me!
It's best to listen to speakers if you want to avoid buyer's remorse. Can't you take a trip to a big city which has dealers with some of the speakers you want to listen to? With a little effort, you can locate dealers who carry various speakers.

You want reasonably sensitive floorstanding speakers that can be placed near a corner. There aren't too many speakers meant to actually go into a corner. The Allison Three is probably somewhat out of your price range but it is meant for corner placement--indeed, they are wedge-shaped so they fit in a corner.

It's hard to know just what you would consider as being close to a corner a corner. With a room 15 feet wide, you probably would want most wide dispersion speakers about 2.5 feet from the side walls and some distance from the back wall, just how far would depend on the sort of balance you want from things like male vocals and double basses.

You have a reasonably powerful amplifier so there are a number of speakers which might produce the volume levels you want. You might like the Paradigm Studio 100, which is very good on vocals and is generally pretty smooth, though it is balanced somewhat brighter than I want. The Signature Series speakers are better IMHO but the larger ones are above your price range, though you might be able to swing a pair of S4's and a subwoofer--except you don't what to do that.

The Mirage OM-7 is very easy to listen to. It is a bipolar speaker so I imagine it needs a little more space than most forward radiating speakers.

Vienna Acoustics speakers seem pretty laid back, too much so for me, but they are pleasant and many like them.

The PSB Stratus Gold-i is very good but rather insensitive. You might want a bigger amp. Their new Platinum Series should be very fine but the larger ones are out of your price range.

I haven't heard the latest generations of Klipsch speakers, but the RF-7 is in your price range and it is quite sensitive. You could drive them with a somewhat smaller amp if desired. With speakers that sensitive, you want quiet electronics.

I heard the Sonus Faber Concerto Grand Piano and I thought it was a very fine speakers.

[Geoffcin]

Hey Geoff, what about your Ref 3's? That might be a good solution, especially with the plate amp.

But I don't want to come off like some other forum participant (who will remain nameless) and tout my speakers to the exclusion of everthing else.

Plus; These 3.8's will play LOUD & long for him like nobodies business and do it smoothly without grain. They list for $8500 pair, if he can get them for $3800 or even less then that's a real bargin.

[Waxxiemann]

Hello all. I just want to thank you all very much for your responses. I have a lot of work ahead of me, it appears!

I agree with what Pat D mentioned about avoiding buyers remorse.

I will be going to Toronto in a few months (June) for work and I think I'll do my best to audition as many speakers as I can in my short time there.

I will do as much researh as possible on the above mentioned speakers and I will update my post once I have some solid findings (listening experience).

I have never been involved in a hobby where the people are so friendly and helpful.

Again, thank you all very much.

[MusicLG]

I was in your shoes for the past several months, looking for speakers that gave me the, "WOW!" in the budget range that you established. I obsessively auditioned everything I could get my ears around...Magnepan, B & W, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, etc, etc. The posters in this forum have been tremendously helpful. There's alot of great speakers out there, but they all sound different to different listeners, so you'll have to choose what sounds right for you. I listened to speakers that folks here recommended, and I wondered why they sounded so muffled and boxey. I finally fell in love with, and bought, JMLab Electras. I'm still on cloud 9. Good luck to you.