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IRG
03-02-2005, 11:46 AM
I have a post below about my remote problem/ wanting to get a new receiver. I have a local dealer who will give me $485 for an older Roksan integrated amp and cd player. Fine units, although the remote is giving me trouble (will try different batteries again, to see if that is the simple fix, don't think so). I use this amp mostly for dvd and cable tv watching, not so much music, as I never have any time alone with 2 active kids (and one on the way). In other words, a receiver would be fine for my needs, although I do like quality equipment. Some day I will get very nice separates, but for now a decent receiver will suffice.

This same dealer who will give me $485 for my gear, also sells NAD receivers, and the T743 is one he has for sale for $645 (lists $699). He is a small local dealer, and probably can't come down much on that price, which is fine. I have read one review http://www.soundstage.com/surrounded/surrounded200411.htm that was very positive, and there is only 1 review from an owner on this site.

Anyone have any thoughts on this receiver? My brother in law has a NAD receiver that seems to have 1 channel going out on him (the processor) and that makes me a bit leary, but that is only 1 unit out of many. Some people swear by NAD, others think they are overated and not so good. Personally I have always liked them, and this basic receiver would probably fit the bill just fine. Right now I only have 2 speakers for this system, and no sub, although I could steal some from my other system that my 2 kids have.

Is this a good receiver, and a good price? Baiscally I would owe about $160 for it. I seldom use the Roksan cd player anyway, and I have a Sony dvd/cd player now. Any thoughts about this reciever, or something comparable, I would welcome. And this dealer also sells Yamaha, but that is it. He seems to think NAD would be more to my liking coming from the Roksan units, and he's probably right. Thanks. irg

markw
03-02-2005, 12:24 PM
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/1606.html

But, as far as their HT stuff, I'm a bit leary. I've heard great things about how they sound but I've read many, many times about reliability problems.

For HT I think you're better off with one ofthe mainline suppliers such as Denon, Yamaha, etc...

But, unless you really, really want to put some speakers in the back/sides, why even bother with multi channel anyway? Now, ask me what I think about NAD TWO channel stuff. ;)

YMMV

IRG
03-02-2005, 01:03 PM
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/1606.html

But, as far as their HT stuff, I'm a bit leary. I've heard great things about how they sound but I've read many, many times about reliability problems.

For HT I think you're better off with one ofthe mainline suppliers such as Denon, Yamaha, etc...

But, unless you really, really want to put some speakers in the back/sides, why even bother with multi channel anyway? Now, ask me what I think about NAD TWO channel stuff. ;)

YMMV

I have heard of some HT problems, but that seems behind them, maybe an earlier version that is not sold now. Not sure of that. Very few companies don't seem to have this issue once in a while. I remember the Onkyo receiver I bought, the 575x, well the "x" stood for a revised version because the regular 575 had a flaw in it. That was 5 years ago, and this receiver is still going strong. I like the Soundstage reviews (better than most) and they really seemed to like this receiver, although maybe they like everything, but I don't think so.

I want to bother with multichannel for a couple of reasons; I would like to integrate a center channel, and a sub. And if I can find a pleasant way of doing it, 2 surround channels that are unobtrusive. That will be the challenge. Plus I like the video switching that only a HT receiver can do. If there was a 2 channel receiver that could do a better job of video switching, and offered opticalcoaxial inputs and a sub input I might be sold. Haven't found such a unit yet. I've heard Outlaw might make one but that has been promised for a while now.

By the way, have you ever heard of ambiophonics? I forgot you lived in NJ. I have quite a story to tell you soon about one kick a$$ of a system I got to demo in northern NJ. Ciao.

markw
03-03-2005, 04:35 AM
For these, you're going ti need a processor, which is indeed part of a HT receiver.

A sub can be blended easily into most two channel systems. Virtually all with line level inputs offer the needed controls (crossofer, level, sometimes phase) toat allow them to be blended in with an existing system. When I used the Velo with the maggies, I simply split the preamp outs to the main amp and the sub amp. Since I passed the full range to both, determining the low pass for the sub was the easy part. Finding the placement for the sub was the biitch. I would up letting the sub take over about 45 - 50 hz and the maggies were polite enough to simply ignore any badd they could not reproduce.

I could have used the speaker I/O which would have applies an 80 or 120 hz high pass to the mains if their bass reproduction was a problem.

Fortunately, with a HT receiver all this fancy stuff is handled in the receiver itself. It's beset if you deactivate all this garbage in the sub is possible. Some subs allow thiis. If that's not possible, set the sub's xover to as high a level as possible. Most receivers use 80 hz since this is the de facto HT standard, although some allow you to select this.

I would really, really like to see that NAD had vanquished the demons thatplagued their HT line. I have too much loyalty to their two channel stuff to not be disappointed that their HT lines suffers in comparison. I do hear that, when they do work, they sound great, thanks to the high power reserves of their amps.

Try to get the center from tha same manufacturer as, and preferably one designed to match,, your mains. This keeps the imaging fairly stable across the front stage, which is the most important. The rears are less critical in thisr regard, which is good for you as I think they will need to be places less than ideally, anuyway.

So, wassup with that great demo?

You got down here and didn't PM me ahead of time? I'm offended. That, and you missed a good Spanish dinner.

That's all right. I'll be heading up to East Rochester soon.

IRG
03-03-2005, 10:13 AM
For these, you're going ti need a processor, which is indeed part of a HT receiver.

A sub can be blended easily into most two channel systems. Virtually all with line level inputs offer the needed controls (crossofer, level, sometimes phase) toat allow them to be blended in with an existing system. When I used the Velo with the maggies, I simply split the preamp outs to the main amp and the sub amp. Since I passed the full range to both, determining the low pass for the sub was the easy part. Finding the placement for the sub was the biitch. I would up letting the sub take over about 45 - 50 hz and the maggies were polite enough to simply ignore any badd they could not reproduce.

I could have used the speaker I/O which would have applies an 80 or 120 hz high pass to the mains if their bass reproduction was a problem.

Fortunately, with a HT receiver all this fancy stuff is handled in the receiver itself. It's beset if you deactivate all this garbage in the sub is possible. Some subs allow thiis. If that's not possible, set the sub's xover to as high a level as possible. Most receivers use 80 hz since this is the de facto HT standard, although some allow you to select this.

I would really, really like to see that NAD had vanquished the demons thatplagued their HT line. I have too much loyalty to their two channel stuff to not be disappointed that their HT lines suffers in comparison. I do hear that, when they do work, they sound great, thanks to the high power reserves of their amps.

Try to get the center from tha same manufacturer as, and preferably one designed to match,, your mains. This keeps the imaging fairly stable across the front stage, which is the most important. The rears are less critical in thisr regard, which is good for you as I think they will need to be places less than ideally, anuyway.

So, wassup with that great demo?

You got down here and didn't PM me ahead of time? I'm offended. That, and you missed a good Spanish dinner.

That's all right. I'll be heading up to East Rochester soon.

Yeah, sorry I didn't contact you before. I get precious little free time on these business trips. On that day, I started at 6 a.m. and got to my hotel at about 11 p.m. But this one visit for work was great. I will post another thread soon about what I heard and saw.

The guy I visited is a retired engineer, used to own a communications company. Suffice it to say, he did well. When he built his home (that I visited) he built a special room for his audio system. This room alone probably cost $100k. 40+ foot high ceilings, and the walls angle out, like a concert symphony. The room is about 20' x 45' very large. And there is only 1 chair in the middle of the room. You are mostly surround by very large custom made planar speakers, about 16 of them. And facing you, are two more tall speakers, I think maybe Apogee. Spaced only about 1-2 feet apart, but angled out some. This is repeated in the rear of you too. And there are 2 B&W subs behind the front speakers. There are individual power amps for every speaker. And almost the same number of preamps for each power amp. And these planar speakers are each about the size of a door, on its side. They have special stands to make them all at ear level.

He had various other equipment hooked up to this stuff, like a couple of cd players, and a laser turntable (for regular LPs - I have never seen one of these before, about $10k). But the heart of all of this, is a computer card that has been very carefully engineered. Hard to describe what it does (I need to finish reading his book). But it very carefully analyzed everything in your room, the acoustics (he built the ceiling so high, and with special panels, that the reverberations are essentially eliminted), where you sit, the number of speakers you are using (minimum is 4) etc. The end result is that what you hear, is the closest that audio production can be to an actual live concert hall experience. And obviously he is a classical music afficionado.

But he gave me some demos too, of sounds. One very cool demo of a marching band playing, and as you sit there, you can hear (and feel) the marching band slowly moving by you, almost as if you can touch them. You can hear the band get lounder as they approach, and quieter as they move by, all around the room. It isn't just an effect of the left speaker, and then the right, it literally seems to move all across the room. And you can hear such detail too, of shoes moving, and people marching, really cool.

One complaint I had is the noise of the system. You can hear some static pops quite often, and I think better cables might help eliminate that. Cables is something he has absolutely no use for, in terms of spending a lot. But in his case, well he would need so much it would be a lot, but I am not sure how else to eliminate this problem.

He gave me another demo, in another room. This time a normal sized room, and he used a Yamaha receiver, with Bose cubes. SImilar arrangement, with 3 cubes set up in front of you, 2 to each side, and 2 behind you. Similar card used again to take into account all of the paramets in the room. And son of a gun if these little Bose cubes actually sounded pretty good. And I used to own these, and still remember how poor they really are. But in the right system, they weren't bad.

My other complaint (and it won't be for most others) is that you do have to sit in specific areas for the sound to be completely engulfing. In my main room, I don't have such a seat, hence my need to want to add a little more surround.

All in all, a very interesting visit. I know that traditional audio enthusiast would be out out that a computer card and 20+ speakers can't sound good, but until you listen for yourself, it can't be properly criticized. He almost had a buyer for this invention (JVC) but around the same time the whole dolby digital/dts craze took over, and it was too complicated for any company to want to try and market this againt HT. The two technologies are not similar, but the marketing could get blurred. Check out his site: http://www.ambiophonics.org

Here is a definition of ambiophonics from the website:

The Ambiophonics method combines an exploitation of seldom applied, but well documented, psychoacoustic principles with the basic rules of good musical performance space design to create believable concert-hall sound fields in dedicated home listening rooms. Ambiophonics moves the listener into the same space as the performers, by accommodating to individual external ear and head characteristics, minimizing interaural correlation at the listening positions, abandoning the traditional stereo loudspeaker equilateral triangle, recreating early reflections and reverberant fields via computer, eliminating front-loudspeaker crosstalk, and reducing the home music theater wideband reverberation time to less than .2 seconds. The completion and testing of the first full-scale version of the Ambiophonics Home Concert Hall has demonstrated that the Ambiophonic sound reproducing technique is a worthy successor to both stereophonic or surround-sound listening configurations, for staged music, in that it can consistently generate a "You Are There" concert, opera or pop sound field even preferably from standard LPs, DVDs or CDs that the ear-brain system will accept as real.

E-Stat
03-03-2005, 01:33 PM
I would really, really like to see that NAD had vanquished the demons thatplagued their HT line. I have too much loyalty to their two channel stuff to not be disappointed that their HT lines suffers in comparison. I do hear that, when they do work, they sound great, thanks to the high power reserves of their amps.

I'm happy with a T763 I bought a little over a year ago. So far, so good. The fan can be a tad noisy, though. I don't use most of the gadgets but I do like the selectable LFE crossover. After a good bit of experimenting, I prefered a higher 100 hz crossover to Polk RTi-35s with my powered subs.

rw

IRG
03-03-2005, 01:45 PM
I'm happy with a T763 I bought a little over a year ago. So far, so good. The fan can be a tad noisy, though. I don't use most of the gadgets but I do like the selectable LFE crossover. After a good bit of experimenting, I prefered a higher 100 hz crossover to Polk RTi-35s with my powered subs.

rw

I don't think the 743 has very many gadgets at all, which partly appeals to me. I do like the selectable sub crossover points. How is EARS? Would you use this for watching regular cable tv? Also, if you have a cable/sat box, do you use the regular RCA cables for audio, or do you use a coaxial/optical cable into the receiver? With my current integrated setup, I have no choice, it has to be RCA. What I don't like is that some stations are much louder than others. I am hoping I can control that better with a true HT receiver. I think the NADs have 5 presets for how you want to control your system. Not sure if that means you can program the loundness on certain channels or not. Speed channel is one channel that is too lound. Fuse too.

Do you like your Polks? I have seen some good deals on JBL E30 speakers and the EC35 center. All very inexpensive, and seem to get good reviews. I have JBL HLS-610s in my other system, and people still talk about how great these little speakers were for the money. The Athena speakers also look good for the $ at Bestpriceaudiovideo.com

Mark you like Athena right?

E-Stat
03-03-2005, 03:56 PM
How is EARS?
I've tried, but never use it. I usually leave it in Dolby mode except for old movies and such where I prefer one of the enhanced stereo modes.


Also, if you have a cable/sat box, do you use the regular RCA cables for audio, or do you use a coaxial/optical cable into the receiver?
I use composite RCA cables for both HD Cable and DVD sources.


Do you like your Polks?
I find them pretty decent. Not very boxy sounding so long as you don't run them full range. I roll mine off below 100 hz and hand that over to the subs. Below that, you hear the port chuffing away.

rw

Hawkeye
03-03-2005, 08:25 PM
IRG, I see you are up in Ithaca, we're nearly neighbors - I'm down near Binghamton. Anyway, I see you're considering a NAD T743. A quick search around the web turns up what appears to be a good many noise issues with the T7x3 models. Not sure just how large a problem it is, as its certainly hard to do a scientific study based almost solely on some complaints we read about on the internet. I do know that NAD has released at least one firmware upgrade that I believe deals with noise issues. I am also fairly certain they do care about customer service and are quite willing to work towards a solution for any quality problems encountered. I have a T742 and have emailed NAD Service on two separate occasions. Both times they answered my email in less than 12 hours. On the flip-side of the coin I'm still waiting for an answer from Sony on a DVD player problem I wrote to them about, its now been 3 1/2 years. I'm becoming less hopeful by the day that they will respond ;-)
Perhaps the key in considering a NAD receiver is to be sure you have a dealer who is willing to work with you, should a problem arise. Are you working with a local dealer? Reason I ask is because a friend of mine has his tax return seemingly burning a hole in his pocket and is considering a HT purchase, movies mostly. I am being recruited to assist in the search. We have a few small dealers locally but we also would like to expand the search to Ithaca and Syracuse. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
If you decide on NAD there is also a dealer in Vestal, not too far away from you. In my case, I bought online from a very reputable source, Saturday Audio Exchange. I had heard a lot of good things about them and about a year ago, while in Chicago on another matter, I paid them a visit. While there I got to listen to a variety of brands but concentrated most on the few in my price range, NAD, Denon, and Yamaha. Of the three, I felt the NAD sounded head and shoulders above the other two. Others may disagree, to each his own. On that day I wasn't going to buy anything, I had to fly home, and didn't need the hastle of dragging HT equipment with me through the airport. But as fate would have it the owner, Andy Zimmerman, stopped in the store to pick up something, (he wasn't working that day, it was a Saturday). He stopped to talk to me for a second, and ended up spending a couple hours with me, (on his day off), all the while knowing I was going to be leaving the store without purchasing anything. I was impressed to say the least. I visited their website a month later only to find out they were offering some *great* discounts on the T7x2 receivers paired with PSB speakers, as both were being replaced by newer models. I took my first plunge into HT and am glad I did.
Anyway, best of luck in your decision. I'd be interested in hearing what you finally decide.

IRG
03-04-2005, 08:07 AM
IRG, I see you are up in Ithaca, we're nearly neighbors - I'm down near Binghamton. Anyway, I see you're considering a NAD T743. A quick search around the web turns up what appears to be a good many noise issues with the T7x3 models. Not sure just how large a problem it is, as its certainly hard to do a scientific study based almost solely on some complaints we read about on the internet. I do know that NAD has released at least one firmware upgrade that I believe deals with noise issues. I am also fairly certain they do care about customer service and are quite willing to work towards a solution for any quality problems encountered. I have a T742 and have emailed NAD Service on two separate occasions. Both times they answered my email in less than 12 hours. On the flip-side of the coin I'm still waiting for an answer from Sony on a DVD player problem I wrote to them about, its now been 3 1/2 years. I'm becoming less hopeful by the day that they will respond ;-)
Perhaps the key in considering a NAD receiver is to be sure you have a dealer who is willing to work with you, should a problem arise. Are you working with a local dealer? Reason I ask is because a friend of mine has his tax return seemingly burning a hole in his pocket and is considering a HT purchase, movies mostly. I am being recruited to assist in the search. We have a few small dealers locally but we also would like to expand the search to Ithaca and Syracuse. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
If you decide on NAD there is also a dealer in Vestal, not too far away from you. In my case, I bought online from a very reputable source, Saturday Audio Exchange. I had heard a lot of good things about them and about a year ago, while in Chicago on another matter, I paid them a visit. While there I got to listen to a variety of brands but concentrated most on the few in my price range, NAD, Denon, and Yamaha. Of the three, I felt the NAD sounded head and shoulders above the other two. Others may disagree, to each his own. On that day I wasn't going to buy anything, I had to fly home, and didn't need the hastle of dragging HT equipment with me through the airport. But as fate would have it the owner, Andy Zimmerman, stopped in the store to pick up something, (he wasn't working that day, it was a Saturday). He stopped to talk to me for a second, and ended up spending a couple hours with me, (on his day off), all the while knowing I was going to be leaving the store without purchasing anything. I was impressed to say the least. I visited their website a month later only to find out they were offering some *great* discounts on the T7x2 receivers paired with PSB speakers, as both were being replaced by newer models. I took my first plunge into HT and am glad I did.
Anyway, best of luck in your decision. I'd be interested in hearing what you finally decide.

Hi Hawkeye,
Yeah, you are real close to me. I went to Suny Bingamton in the late 80s. Or as it is called now, Binghamton University.

My local dealer is called Stellar Stereo. They have been in business for a good 20+ year s I think. They are just outside of Ithaca, south on Rt 13. Easy to find. They have been great in the emails I have been sending them, and have offered a fair trade in for my current equipment. I am thinking tomorrow morning I am going to go over there and actually listen to some stuff. I could easily get a cheaper receiver, like a Yamaha or Pioneer, but sonically I do think from reviews and other owners comments, the NAD is a big step up. Now my ears will have to decide. I also like the simplistic nature of NAD better than the others. Less is more. That is what I have enjoyed about my Roksan products, although they may be a bit too spartan for what I am demanding of them now.

Speakers is another situation. I don't want to spend a lot, even though this is the area where it makes the most difference (and room acoustics probably almost as much). It's not that I don't want to spend a lot, I can't! Too many other things I need to finance. But I do want to have 3 identical like drivers in my system, fronts and center. Not too concerned about the rears, if can even find a place for them. And then I will add a decent sub too.

I will look at the PSB line, maybe Athena, and for budget, even some JBLs might be on my list. They are better than they get credit for, and they are inexpensive too. I might keep my Energy's if I can find the center speaker. The nenxt thing I need is a small but good armoire to put the TV in, and the center speaker on top of it, or below. My room is really not made for hardly any gear at all, probably one of the biggest issues I have. We could have a whole other board devoted to this.

I have looked at the Saturday Audio website you mentioned. I might be tempted to purchase from them if my local dealer hadn't been so accomodating. I guess we'll see how it all works out. For now, I am leaning hard towards the NAD. Speakers is still an unknown. I'll keep you updated.

Hawkeye
03-04-2005, 08:41 AM
Hi Hawkeye,
Speakers is another situation. I don't want to spend a lot, even though this is the area where it makes the most difference (and room acoustics probably almost as much). It's not that I don't want to spend a lot, I can't! Too many other things I need to finance. But I do want to have 3 identical like drivers in my system, fronts and center. Not too concerned about the rears, if can even find a place for them. And then I will add a decent sub too.

I will look at the PSB line, maybe Athena, and for budget, even some JBLs might be on my list.
I have looked at the Saturday Audio website you mentioned. I might be tempted to purchase from them if my local dealer hadn't been so accomodating. I guess we'll see how it all works out. For now, I am leaning hard towards the NAD. Speakers is still an unknown. I'll keep you updated. IRG, excellent. Worth noting, many dealers that sell NAD also sell PSB as they are both owned by the same parent company. It certainly makes it easier to preview the combo. I certainly understand about "other things" that need to be financed, I'm with you there. I would love to be able to own a T773 and maybe some Magnapan speakers, but such is life...
You may want to consider living with the speakers you have for now and then buy in stages as you can afford. This way you'll wind up with much better speakers in the long run - though it takes more time. Doing it this way would be hard to do from a "gotta have it now" mentality. Not sure if I could do it to be honest, but just a thought.
Saturday Audio is listing some PSB's on the Deals page, and www.dmcelectronics.com is also a reputable online dealer of PSB speakers as well.
Decisions...decisions....have fun!! ;)

IRG
03-04-2005, 09:31 AM
IRG, excellent. Worth noting, many dealers that sell NAD also sell PSB as they are both owned by the same parent company. It certainly makes it easier to preview the combo. I certainly understand about "other things" that need to be financed, I'm with you there. I would love to be able to own a T773 and maybe some Magnapan speakers, but such is life...
You may want to consider living with the speakers you have for now and then buy in stages as you can afford. This way you'll wind up with much better speakers in the long run - though it takes more time. Doing it this way would be hard to do from a "gotta have it now" mentality. Not sure if I could do it to be honest, but just a thought.
Saturday Audio is listing some PSB's on the Deals page, and www.dmcelectronics.com is also a reputable online dealer of PSB speakers as well.
Decisions...decisions....have fun!! ;)

Oh I have lived with my current equipment for quite a while now. I have a pair of Energy C-3 speakers that are very good. I can't find a center though. And they aren't cheap either. Plus the size is yet another issue. But if I am going to upgrade, I might as well at least get the front 3 speakers to match now. Later I can add surround, or use other speakers I have in my other system that gets used by my 2 kids who wouldn't know the difference. I could also steal that sub for now. While I don't want to cheap out, the other reality is,
even if I could spend a lot, I don't think I would notice much of a big difference in sound quality because of what I am listening to. And by that I mean, I don't get the luxury of just listening to music by myself, at whatever levels I want. Others can't relate here, but maybe you can. With a wife, and 2 kids (soon to be 3), my listening hours are extrenely limited. Mostly we watch cable TV. Or dvds. Most of my music listening is on my iPod now, which others think may be crap, personally I think it will and is, changing the way we know music, and changing the music industry faster than anything else. I have few precious hours in a day to listen to music, so my iPod affords me whenever I have a moment walking to the office (Cornell) or even at work, I can use this "free" time to listen to what I like. When I am at home, it is a different story. It won't always be this way, but for a while it is. So why spend a lot on speakers that won't really make much of a difference.

And my comments on the iPod are from what I notice: on this Ivy league campus, the vast majority of students (and even faculty) have an iPod or similar device while walking around campus (that is when they don't have their cell phones pressed to their face). They are listening and consuming music in a whole different way, then when I was at Binghamton. It may not be audiophile, but for most that isn't what they need or want. It will be interesting to see who is listening to this change. Obviously Apple is, I wonder about the recording companies? There won't be as many around in a few years, that is what I am predicting.

Back to components, I love really nice stuff, and once in a while when I go to NYC for work, I hop in some shops and drool at what I see, but I know I really can't a) afford the stuff I see b) ever appreciate it because I can't listen to the gear in a proper fashion.

I don't know if there are other people here with small kids who have a similar predicament, but for me, the time available to just listen to music is seldom, so HT becomes a bigger part of my overall purchasing dollars, and time spent. It wouldn't be great for my marriage if I spent the evenings listening to music (that my wife doesn't like) instead of watching movies or shows together that we can both appreciate. But even then, I might as well be watching TV in good quality sound!

Hawkeye
03-04-2005, 07:41 PM
Oh I have lived with my current equipment for quite a while now. I have a pair of Energy C-3 speakers that are very good. I can't find a center though. And they aren't cheap either. Plus the size is yet another issue. But if I am going to upgrade, I might as well at least get the front 3 speakers to match now. Later I can add surround, or use other speakers I have in my other system that gets used by my 2 kids who wouldn't know the difference. I could also steal that sub for now. While I don't want to cheap out, the other reality is,
even if I could spend a lot, I don't think I would notice much of a big difference in sound quality because of what I am listening to. And by that I mean, I don't get the luxury of just listening to music by myself, at whatever levels I want. Others can't relate here, but maybe you can. With a wife, and 2 kids (soon to be 3), my listening hours are extrenely limited. Mostly we watch cable TV. Or dvds. IRG, a couple thoughts. First of all, the Energy speakers should match up well with the NAD. Second, you have some nice speakers there with the Energy C-3's. If they're in good shape, by adding a matching center, you'll be able to take care of your (matching) fronts for a lot cheaper than if you had to upgrade with 3 matching speakers. Even paying msrp for the Energy C-C3 center (around $600), you'd be way ahead of the game, as I'm not sure you could touch three comparable or better speakers from, say, PSB for $600. But I could be wrong. Although you might even be happy with a C-C1 center for considerably less than $600. http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-line.php?id=4
If I understand your initial post, you can trade your Roksan gear (which you don't listen to all that much) and $160 for a NAD T743. Man, if it were me, I'd bring home the NAD and listen with your Energy speakers for a while, you may just be impressed. Might even save you enough to pick up a DVD-A / SACD combo unit. Then pick up a matching center, move some spares into the surround position, or pick up something suitable for surrounds if no spares. Also, Hsu makes some absolutely great subs that are hard to beat for the price. Your money, your decisions. Just pointing out some things you may not have considered.

I can relate to not being able to fully appreciate listening to music with a full house. That's not a bad thing, mind you, your family should always come first. I was in that position but its changed now with time. We now have both kids in college so there is more time to listen to music, or to share music and movie time with my wife.

I fully understand the appeal of the ipod, with its compressed format, to those listeners on the go. I just find it quite ironic that it comes at basically the same time as SACD's and DVD-A's, which I consider possibly the single greatest advancement in music listening since the move from mono to stereo. I think we're finding out that people don't necessarily want "better" and that these high resolution discs are destined to be sold to a VERY small niche market. Unfortunate.

E-Stat, if you're still following, your T763 is obviously still within its warranty. I have heard of people sending their units in for a free fan replacement for just the cost of shipment. And I agree, I never use EARS either. After listening to dicreet 5 channel ri-res discs, EARS just sounds, frankly, quite fake. I'd much rather listen to stereo than to EARS or any of the other modes of pseudo-surround.

IRG
03-05-2005, 08:48 AM
IRG, a couple thoughts. First of all, the Energy speakers should match up well with the NAD. Second, you have some nice speakers there with the Energy C-3's. If they're in good shape, by adding a matching center, you'll be able to take care of your (matching) fronts for a lot cheaper than if you had to upgrade with 3 matching speakers. Even paying msrp for the Energy C-C3 center (around $600), you'd be way ahead of the game, as I'm not sure you could touch three comparable or better speakers from, say, PSB for $600. But I could be wrong. Although you might even be happy with a C-C1 center for considerably less than $600. http://www.energy-speakers.com/v2/products/product-line.php?id=4
If I understand your initial post, you can trade your Roksan gear (which you don't listen to all that much) and $160 for a NAD T743. Man, if it were me, I'd bring home the NAD and listen with your Energy speakers for a while, you may just be impressed. Might even save you enough to pick up a DVD-A / SACD combo unit. Then pick up a matching center, move some spares into the surround position, or pick up something suitable for surrounds if no spares. Also, Hsu makes some absolutely great subs that are hard to beat for the price. Your money, your decisions. Just pointing out some things you may not have considered.

I can relate to not being able to fully appreciate listening to music with a full house. That's not a bad thing, mind you, your family should always come first. I was in that position but its changed now with time. We now have both kids in college so there is more time to listen to music, or to share music and movie time with my wife.

I fully understand the appeal of the ipod, with its compressed format, to those listeners on the go. I just find it quite ironic that it comes at basically the same time as SACD's and DVD-A's, which I consider possibly the single greatest advancement in music listening since the move from mono to stereo. I think we're finding out that people don't necessarily want "better" and that these high resolution discs are destined to be sold to a VERY small niche market. Unfortunate.

E-Stat, if you're still following, your T763 is obviously still within its warranty. I have heard of people sending their units in for a free fan replacement for just the cost of shipment. And I agree, I never use EARS either. After listening to dicreet 5 channel ri-res discs, EARS just sounds, frankly, quite fake. I'd much rather listen to stereo than to EARS or any of the other modes of pseudo-surround.

Hey Hawkeye,
I probably will keep the Energys, if I can find the center for reasonable. But $600 isn't reasonable right now. I only paid $300 for the C-3. Got them off of Ebay from a guy who had recently bought them but then needed the black color (WAF) thing. So I got a great deal on them. I probably would like the NAD and Energy combo. I wouldn't mind building some speakers either, like the kits on Parts Express, only they haven't made a kit for the center speaker than I can see.

My Roksan gear is actually on all the time, I listen to it, but I don't really listen to it, if you get what I mean. Yeah, when the kids go off to college then I will have time! Hopefully I will still have my hearing, lol.

As far as subs go, I know the Hsu is good, ditto SVS, and Velodyne. Everyone has their favorites. I have a JBL PB-10 that was supposed to be unreliable according to the reviews, but mine is still going strong after 5 years, and it is used daily. It is a decent sub for the money too. The next one I get won't be the sub of my dreams, but something again, decent for the next 3-5 years. Maybe another JBL, or the Sony subs that seem to get really good reviews everywhere. I also like the Adire subs, but I won't spend that much now. For the price of the Sonys, I could get two, which might be cool. The NAD has 2 sub inputs too. Lots of choices that's for sure.

The new PSB line (what was the image series) looks a LOT like my Energy C series speakers. That center might match up well enough to what I have. We'll see. I'm hoping to get out today to look, but the wife's out shopping with a friend, so it isn't looking good for me, what else is new! Take care.
P.S. I bught a beuatiful pair of speakers at JSG Audio in Binghamton, are they still there? I think I paid about $600 for them, worth every cent too.

IRG
03-05-2005, 11:05 AM
Hey Hawkeye,
I probably will keep the Energys, if I can find the center for reasonable. But $600 isn't reasonable right now. I only paid $300 for the C-3. Got them off of Ebay from a guy who had recently bought them but then needed the black color (WAF) thing. So I got a great deal on them. I probably would like the NAD and Energy combo. I wouldn't mind building some speakers either, like the kits on Parts Express, only they haven't made a kit for the center speaker than I can see.

My Roksan gear is actually on all the time, I listen to it, but I don't really listen to it, if you get what I mean. Yeah, when the kids go off to college then I will have time! Hopefully I will still have my hearing, lol.

As far as subs go, I know the Hsu is good, ditto SVS, and Velodyne. Everyone has their favorites. I have a JBL PB-10 that was supposed to be unreliable according to the reviews, but mine is still going strong after 5 years, and it is used daily. It is a decent sub for the money too. The next one I get won't be the sub of my dreams, but something again, decent for the next 3-5 years. Maybe another JBL, or the Sony subs that seem to get really good reviews everywhere. I also like the Adire subs, but I won't spend that much now. For the price of the Sonys, I could get two, which might be cool. The NAD has 2 sub inputs too. Lots of choices that's for sure.

The new PSB line (what was the image series) looks a LOT like my Energy C series speakers. That center might match up well enough to what I have. We'll see. I'm hoping to get out today to look, but the wife's out shopping with a friend, so it isn't looking good for me, what else is new! Take care.
P.S. I bught a beuatiful pair of speakers at JSG Audio in Binghamton, are they still there? I think I paid about $600 for them, worth every cent too.

The Energy Connoisseur line is still being made. Someone here said that it wasn't. I just called a local dealer in Ithaca (Highway HiFi) and they said that Energy was going to discontinue it but too many dealers objected to that, so it's still being made. The CC-1 which is what I would get (2 way design like the C-3) is around $275. So I will probably go with that, although I would still like something cheaper. We'll see.

Hawkeye
03-05-2005, 11:56 AM
The Energy Connoisseur line is still being made. Someone here said that it wasn't. I just called a local dealer in Ithaca (Highway HiFi) and they said that Energy was going to discontinue it but too many dealers objected to that, so it's still being made. The CC-1 which is what I would get (2 way design like the C-3) is around $275. So I will probably go with that, although I would still like something cheaper. We'll see. Sounds like a good plan. I've also thought of building some speakers, maybe someday. If Parts Express doesn't have a plan for center speakers I would recommend just building three of the same fronts and lay the "center one" on its side. There is no hard and fast rule that says the center speaker has to be anything but matching. Three of the same yould definately match ;)

Yes, JSG Audio is still here, in fact that's one of the showrooms my friend an I will be visiting in the next week or two. I know they have Marantz/Definitive Technology pairings there and I look forward to hearing them. Also, another neat place down here is www.audioclassics.com its over in Vestal and is an authorized McIntosh dealer/repair center. In fact they have a retired Mac engineer on staff there. I was in there not too long ago waiting to speak with someoine about some equipment I had in for repair. The guy was on the phone, so while browsing around I happened into a large HT room filled with pretty much nothing but Mac equipment. I plopped myself down in a nice leather chair and watched a bit of a live Diana Krall concert on dvd. It was simply breathtaking - the sound in that room. When the guy got off the phone, he came in to get me. I told him, "leave me the hell alone, I'm spending the weekend in here and wish not to be disturbed." ;) It was THAT good!! Trouble is, I'd need to win the lottery....