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dean_martin
12-22-2003, 09:50 AM
Hello all and Merry Christmas!

I'm auditioning the CDM1NTs at home. I have about a week to decide to buy. These are discontinued and are demos so the price is right if I decide to buy. I listen to a variety of music including jazz, classical, classic rock, alt/indie rock, a new age/jazz/world music radio program that airs nightly and other artists like chemical bros., leftfield, stereolab, & DJ Shadow. Here's my system:

Acoustic Energy Aegis Ones
Acurus A-100 (100wpc amp)
Parasound P/HP 850 preamp
Pro-ject 1.2 turntable w/Parasound cart.
Yamaha CT-44 analog tuner
AMC 8b cdp

Immediately I noticed that the high frequencies from the B&Ws are more detailed. More high frequency info is coming through. This took only about an hour to get used to so I cannot characterize the tweeters as harsh or fatiguing. However, the midrange and particullarly the bass are lacking compared to the AEs. The AEs, though not as refined on the top end, are more balanced. I can hear the B&Ws mids and bass but their levels are much lower compared to top end. I don't think the B&Ws are broken in. The dealer didn't think they were broken in yet. I would appreciate your comments on whether the kevlar drivers need a long work-out period. They are bi-wirable, but I'm not biwiring. I'm using the jumpers and have the speaker cable connected to what would be the high frequency binding posts if they were bi-wired.

The most interesting change in my system is that the B&Ws sound really good with classical and jazz cds. Right now they sound weak with rock. With the AEs, I preferred listening to vinyl and FM slightly more than cds. With the B&Ws, vinyl and FM sound thin.

My room is small. I was assuming that I would get at least the same bass response from the B&Ws as I get with the AEs, but not so so far. This is the last pair of CDM1NTs within 50 miles. The price will be right ($650 - 700). But so far they don't beat the AEs as an all-around speaker. They're only clearly better with classical on cd. If these don't work out I would like to try the Vandersteen 1C and Dynaudio Audience 52s, but I would not be able to audition them (I may be able to return them for refund). Any comments on how these would compare to the B&Ws will be appreciated.

Thanks - Tim (sorry for the long post)

topspeed
12-22-2003, 12:13 PM
First off, the CDM 1NT's are monitors after all and you won't get room shaking bass. That said, I've got a pair of 1NT's and trust me, they take a looong time to break-in. I honestly don't know if a week will do them justice. Figure 100-200 hours to really open up the mids otherwise the mid and mid-bass sound fairly hollow and the midbass isn't as coherent with the the tweeter. After proper burn in, the sound is very uniform and you shouldn't have the problem with the tweeter overshadowing the rest of the presentation.

The 1NT's are also very particular about placement and ground coupling. Make sure your stands are good and heavy and coupled to the foundation for the best bass. Also, make sure the foam bungs aren't in the flowports. In addition, play around with their placement and see if you can improve the presentation through some tweaking (closer to the corners for more bass reinforcement). As you've probably discovered, the B&W's image beautifully and should have rock solid stability. If not, play a little more with the placement.

Keep in mind, a great deal will never overcome a person's preferences. You may simply not care for the "B&W sound." There's no crime in that, in fact that's why you have so many great choices. 80% of classical recordings worldwide are mixed using B&W's so it should come as no surprise that they excel at classical and jazz. For what you listen to, you might be better off with Klipsch, Paradigm, AE, or a host of others. At least you get to do a home audition!

Good Luck and buy what moves you.

topspeed
12-22-2003, 12:27 PM
If you don't like the B&W's, I have a feeling you'll hate the Vandy's. They are the epitome of laid-back and probably not a good match for your music. The Danes are better and more forward.

46minaudio
12-22-2003, 04:42 PM
Figure 100-200 hours to really open up the mids otherwise the mid and mid-bass sound fairly hollow and the midbass isn't as coherent with the the tweeter. After proper burn in, the sound is very uniform and you shouldn't have the problem with the tweeter overshadowing the rest of the presentation.

Im going to disagree here...If you dont like them now after 1 hour they will not change..The AE IMO is a fine choice..I have had a pair of AE 300cs for about 2 weeks now and am Impressed.If I had to guess they will play down to 55hz..I did an AB of the 1nt and the Studio 20 v2s in the same room and had the same thoughts..The Bass was weak..IMO look around for $500 you can do better...Forget the deal (on the 1nts)let you ears decide...

Rhino
12-22-2003, 04:48 PM
I've listened to the 1NTs quite a bit and love them, but I don't think I'd like them as well w/o a sub, especially for rock. If you want to have punchy bass pair them with a good sub (Hsu makes some great ones). Otherwise, take a look at a floorstander.

topspeed
12-22-2003, 07:37 PM
Im going to disagree here...If you dont like them now after 1 hour they will not change...

Fair 'nuff. The owner's manual recommends up to a week for temperature stabilization (depending on location and storage of course) as well as at least 15 hours for the drive units to loosen up. My experience was that they warmed up considerably after over 100 hours of use. YMMV. Some don't hear a difference after their amps warm up either. To each their own.

RGA
12-23-2003, 10:39 PM
First of all the CDM 1NT will hit down around 50hz-60hz. This is pretty strong for a standmount this size. Most speakers overemphasize the bottom end and serve as a piston to create deeper bass response which ALWAYS provides a deeper bass at the expense of smudging the midband. A way to view it is a midbass hump that will add weight to mid bass frequencies. The 1NT will not do that and thus the speaker will not HELP thin Rock recordings. The 1NT goes a bit overboard however and some will find it a bit TOO light. The result is a less dynamic sound. Nevertheless with a sub added(preferably two to keep the stereo image (One is dreadful) the sub, depending which ones, will round out and fill the room as desired for rock.

The speaker can be placed closer to a wall to increase bass of course, how close you can get without smearing the midband is another matter but try it and see.

I would suggest you use the Sarah McLachlan remix album (Track Silence) Or Madonna's Die Antoher Day or Justify My Love or Corona's Rythm of the Night. These track's are Trance/Dance with a fair amount of that heavy bass line but with a female vocal dead center so you can determine if the upper midrange treble doesn't fall apart when the speaker produces bass.

A lot of those small speakers will produce deeper bass but ruin the midrange and female vocals in order to get the bass. The 1NT will not artifically pump the bass line but will keep the midrange(female vocal on track). The idea here is that B&W knows most will probably add a sub down the line so they make their Standmount crystal clear. If you have a muddier exagerated speaker you can't fix that.

I recently bought Audio Note AN K Spe speakers that retail for $2kUS. I would suggest if there is a dealer in your area to try these out. Last year's model can be had for ~1kUS. Which may still be out of your budget but you should try and listen to speakers well out of your budget so that you have a reference. You may find gee i really like X speaker at 4k. So then you hunt for a speaker that is closest to that sound for your budget.

The best speaker I have heard is the Audio Note AN E/SEC and since that speaker is $20,000.00 then it's out of my league. The AN K has the same tonal characteristic but without the bass response and overall visceral impact of the presentation. But oh well it's also one zero less and relatively sanely priced. The AN E SEC is not their top of the line either.

The point is to find something that really knocks your socks off. If you have to buy a sub then you have to factor that into the price. ~$400.00 each for a sub say? The AN K will reach 36hz in the corner placement but loads the bass in such as a way as to sound deeper. Largely due to huge dynamics the bass does not dissapear at loud volume levels as most speakers are tested at low levels.

Your Acoustic Energy is also one of my favorites in that price range and a bit beyond as was my old B&W DM 302s.

The Vandersteens go in the other direction and sound rather lifeless to me. The Dynaudio is my other favorite in the CDM 1NT price range but it sounds less open and a bit more veiled. Then again it does provide more depth and a more integrated overall sound. Takes your preference.

But do try and find Audio Note for an audition. I have heard a great many speakers side by side and AN beats them in bass, dynamics and an overall cohesive less boxy sound. Last years models are at Soundhounds basically for half price as the new line no longer comes with grill cloths and I believe will have foam rather than ruber surrounds. http://www.soundhounds.com/ These guys bought the worldwide stock and they've been going pretty fast. The AN E/D is currently 2kCdn I believe (at soundhounds) and is also a large standmount but is a full range speaker that can hit 12hz despite one 8inch Vifa driver and 1icnh Vifa fabric tweeter. Review in a blind listening panel. The An K is better suited to a smaller medium room and is similar in sound http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=475 They loved your Speaker too BTW which they should.

http://www.audionote.co.uk/

If none of these interest you,after all they are no lookers, then you could try asking about the CDM 7NT and see what kind of deal you can get. You would not need to buy stands.