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How I do miss a quality TT, my best was a JVC QL-Y77F..Looking back over the years and some of the stuff I got rid of. Damn women......There is no better sound than that of a LP in good shape being played on a good TT...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wife-hates-my-hobby
How I do miss a quality TT, my best was a JVC QL-Y77F..Looking back over the years and some of the stuff I got rid of. Damn women......There is no better sound than that of a LP in good shape being played on a good TT...
Get yourself a Technics direct-drive linear tracker off Craigslist or eBay, order a P-mount cartridge and phono preamp online and you're back in business.
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no! DON'T get a linear like that
get a pivoted arm technics, they are made better. pmount or not. i will look to see if i have an old technics pmount tt at home, i just might.
the linears that technics made were like close-n-play plastic tables, not very good.
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I'm gonna have to at least lartially disagree
I would definitely not accept the contention that the Technics SL-7 linear tracker is not a good turntable. Reliable. Easy to pack for shipping. Built solid. Convenience of automatic functions. Discrete looks for maximum WAF. A simple and convenient way to ease vinyl back into action.
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i dont think it would be....
good to start with that. maybe as a second tt for experimentation. i just like a table that i can see the arm on when the cover is up. and a pivoted arm, pmount or universal mount will give the user a chance to easily swap cartridges for either different sound or capability.
if i had one to play with, i might be more amenable to the recommendation. it seems to take a lot away from the conventional approach to using a tt. it looks fine in the pics i saw online, just the actual functionality approach is foreign to me.
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I still disagree
Part of the issue with vinyl for many people is largely a matter of convenience. It doesn't get much more convenient than an SL-7. To simply get something nice to play records, my approach would likely be opposite of yours. I wouldn't want to start by experimenting with different cartridges. I'd want to get a decent P-mount, insert it and be done. Plus, this is a player that doesn't take over a living room, aesthetically.
And if you doubt the sound quality...I bet you'd be amazed, considering people practically give these things away.
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conveniece isnt why i use a tt or vinyl
CD is for that. the record and stylus must be cleaned before each play for them to last and not become noisy. many people went away from vinyl because of the ticks and pops, and some cant tolerate that.
as far as the cartridge swapping, fixed headshell tonearms also discourage that physically. i sold off a very highly rated tt/arm combo just to be able to swap carts easily. that was a vpi hw19III/sme IV combo that sounded heavenly but i replaced it with a sota sapphire/mmt so i could be more versatile.
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I hear you
I sometimes regret not having a removable headshell, too. Once I get my Eroica set on my MMF-5, I don't like to have to move it...no matter how bad I want to try a different cartridge.
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Sold!
Finally sold it for a compromise ...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MESOX:IT
Now I got money to get my TD124.
Woohoo!!!
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WOW!! Well done Gills!! Hardly a compromise, that's a great price. Keep us posted on your TD124. BTW, have a look at my Realistic post in the analog room. I was thinking of you when I posted as this table has a solid wood base and overall reminds me of a poor man's Thorens.
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Update on TD 124
I am buying separates to totally build it to my own specs ...
I managed to convince a guy from Audiogon to sell it to me for $850 (he agreed) ...
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3627/td124d.jpg
Then I got some fresh mushrooms for it, plus an SME 3009 Series II (Improved) with upgraded Cardas wiring for a total of $400 ...
http://www.smetonearms.com/index.php...products_id=74
And finally for the cartridge, a Shure M95ED for $50.00
http://pic4.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1265471613.jpg
They are now en route to my place now as we speak.
I'll be assembling them probably next week.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillsev
I'm so envious. I love it when someone hits their goal dead on. Congrats! You sure you don't want some Bose somewhere in the chain?:nono: hahahaha.
Can't wait to see the pics!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppachubby
You sure you don't want some Bose somewhere in the chain?:nono: hahahaha.
Hahaha! But I ain't got no choice on that. Look at my space! 901's on top :)
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/397/afterb.jpg
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Progress on TD 124 ...
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Wow. Great stuff Gills, it will be worth the effort as you well know. I'm sure between that and the Gerrard your TT shopping days are over. Lucky you...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppachubby
Wow. Great stuff Gills, it will be worth the effort as you well know. I'm sure between that and the Gerrard your TT shopping days are over. Lucky you...
Yep, that's it for me! :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppachubby
You would be incorrect in this statement. Classical and jazz tend to have great dynamic range on CD. However, popular music has been degenerating for years now. Dynamic range has been decreasing over the years in what is now known as the "Loudness War".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
Poppa, I wouldn't confuse poor mastering habits with the dynamic range of the format itself. CD has far greater dynamic range capabilities than vinyl does, it just that marketing bean heads like louder better than quality.
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Metallica's latest release, Death Magnetic is supposed to be the most compressed album ever released. There's virtually no range whatsoever. Frightening.
What's really scary is the re-mastering of classics which already contain great range. They will compress them into a rangeless mess. I can speak from experience on this from a vast number of titles, but there was one that really stood out recently. Supertramp's "Crime of the Century" has been RM'd twice, and in it's current form sounds awful. I have an original pressing and the difference is staggering. Considering that this is (was?) an excellent recording with fantastic range which lended to the mood of the LP, they have done fans a HUGE disservice.
This is what happens when your format gets used as a playback source for radio. Once again, this is a marketing decision, not a limitation of the format itself.
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Anyhow, I'll finish by saying that yes indeed, vinyl vs CD is a preference. I have the full gambit of digital ability. My CDP mostly rests but my soundcard is an integral part of my system, I listen to it daily. You may want to consider the combination of TT into a soundcard for more than just ripping.
Great post gilllsev!
I wish I had the love for vinyl that some of you guys have. I guess I have access to so much high quality digital audio gear that sounds so good, the hassles of vinyl are just not appealing to me.
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Thanks for the input Sir T, informative as always. I wouldn't say that I disregard CD as a crumby format altogether. I hear it's great potential alot more recently. I bought an old school CDP with TDA1543 and Philips CDM4/19 laser. Really nice sound with the right disc.
Vinyl has it's share of crumby pressings, so it's far from perfect. Nothing more dissapointing then finding that great album that you love, to find out it sound like chit once on the deck.
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[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible
I wish I had the love for vinyl that some of you guys have. I guess I have access to so much high quality digital audio gear that sounds so good, the hassles of vinyl are just not appealing to me.[/QUOTE]
The love for vinyl is beyond sound. It is a mixture of nostalgia, sentimentality, and art appreciation combined that makes a stronger appeal for the vinyl enthusiast. Observing a turntable at play is an awesome experience. To watch the stylus hit the groove mounted on a finely crafted tonearm is hypnotic to say the least. Every time a record is played, it sounds a bit different from the previous audition. It has soul in it. The ritual in cleaning/ brushing the record before play makes it all the more worthwhile as it heightens the expectation as if a true priviledge earned for the music so well deserving to be heard.
None of these experiences are available on CD's. You just press play and forget it. And they all sound the same every time. Uniformity.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillsev
The love for vinyl is beyond sound. It is a mixture of nostalgia, sentimentality, and art appreciation combined that makes a stronger appeal for the vinyl enthusiast. Observing a turntable at play is an awesome experience. To watch the stylus hit the groove mounted on a finely crafted tonearm is hypnotic to say the least. Every time a record is played, it sounds a bit different from the previous audition. It has soul in it. The ritual in cleaning/ brushing the record before play makes it all the more worthwhile as it heightens the expectation as if a true priviledge earned for the music so well deserving to be heard.
None of these experiences are available on CD's. You just press play and forget it. And they all sound the same every time. Uniformity.
I guess your last sentence is exactly why I like CD - consistency. I guess I like the fact that a good CD will sound good every time I play it. The idea that a recording will sound different to me each day makes my listening experience a floating target.
I guess I always thought the soul was in the artists playing or singing, not in the reproduction process. I usually clean my CD's before loading them, but does not evoke any emotional response from me doing the process. I guess I am more attached to the performance than to the disc.
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One reason I like vinyl is just the vast supply of it. It's fun to go to the 2nd-hand books/records store and find a jewel for a buck or two, take it home and give it a spin. That's how I've discovered a huge part of the music I listen to. To me, it's the music on the records more than the turntable or the records themselves.
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i agree, its the music
vinyl not only sounds more organic and has more JUMP factor than digital, i does allow you to try a LOT more for less. mostly, used CDs are at least 4 bucks, usually 6-9 bucks.
i do find them for less and some good ones too but there seems to be SO much more available for less in the LP piles.
another thing is that when you hear vinyl on different cartridges, it sounds different but still very right in the overwhelming majority of the time. and when your playback system decodes an extremely complex passage with utmost clarity and detail, you can marvel at its physical prowess.
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I feel both ways. The music is the catalyst, no doubt. But to chime in on Gills comments, I do enjoy all the other aspects of the analog experience.
For me, it's that wonderful sense of pride. When you hear a recording coming out of your system with the utmost sweetness, it's proof positive that all your efforts have combined synergistically, to create this amazingly natural sound.
Probably about a year ago, we were at a party and the host had a vintage Technics TT. I asked him to throw on a record, and it was the most horrendous sound ever. I looked at him for a reaction, and he was loving it. When I looked closer, the LP was filthy as was the table. The cartridge was most certainly not aligned correctly. Also, he had a really bad hum from vibration caused by the speakers.
Point is, when I got back home, the difference was like listening to a $20K reference system. This moment really fueled my passion for analog, and the labour required for a great sound.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dean_martin
yeah, those of us with poor eyesight need a 12"x12" cover rather than a cd-sized piece of paper. Can you imagine trying to look at the cover below on anything other than a vinyl jacket?
I collect a lot of opera LP's from the 50's and 60's...It is a pleasure to be able to read the libretto without resorting to a magnifying glass.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
Poppa, I wouldn't confuse poor mastering habits with the dynamic range of the format itself. CD has far greater dynamic range capabilities than vinyl does, it just that marketing bean heads like louder better than quality.
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A digital representation of an analogue source e.g. Music! cannot possibly have a wider dynamic range than the analogue FACT
If you could have a CD player with infinite WORD length & infinite OVER-SAMPLING of an infinite number of tracks you would have the Analogue of the source. This is why DDD stands for the 3-stages of degradation
Vinyl has much greater dynamic headroom than CD
an example from VDU's :-
a vector-scanning monitor can draw a straight line from A to B on the diagonal, whereas a normal raster monitor has to run a huge-recursive algorhythm to produce a step-like approximation.
A similar situation occurs when trying to represent wave-forms e.g. music in digital media...the player has to over-sample , run huge algorhythms and then convert its out put back to analogue.
A record player just produces an analogue of the analogue. In other words the value of the product is not wasted doing un-musical computing.
Sorry mate its just Physics
If you are representing discrete information Digital is fine, but for continuous information, analogue is better..this is why we still use oscilloscopes
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