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  1. #1
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    vinyl surface noise

    hi guys,

    my set up is: denon pma1500 amp, pro-ject debut III turntable, and polk audio lsi9 stand mount speakers...

    when i play vinyl the speakers, the actual cones are moving in and out a lot, but not from the music, even in between tracks, the lead in and lead outs... the LP's are in excellent condition, and you cant really hear any surface noise...

    is this normal? i was just a bit concerned i might have got my set up wrong or something. can this damage the speakers??

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_daniel88
    hi guys,

    my set up is: denon pma1500 amp, pro-ject debut III turntable, and polk audio lsi9 stand mount speakers...

    when i play vinyl the speakers, the actual cones are moving in and out a lot, but not from the music, even in between tracks, the lead in and lead outs... the LP's are in excellent condition, and you cant really hear any surface noise...

    is this normal? i was just a bit concerned i might have got my set up wrong or something. can this damage the speakers??

    Welcome to AudioReview. The woofer cone movement you see is more common with vented speakers. The cartridge and tonearm is best if the resonance frequency is between 8 and 10 hz. This is the range of minimal response to warps or tonearm resonances. You will see more cone movement if the match between cartridge and tonearm is not ideal. If your amp or phono pre-amp has a subsonic filter that will eliminate the excess cone movement. I have never had a speaker damaged by that subsonic interference but it is a waste of amplifier power.
    JohnMichael
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  3. #3
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_daniel88
    is this normal? i was just a bit concerned i might have got my set up wrong or something. can this damage the speakers??

    it's quite normal. it won't really damage the speakers, it's just a waste of amp power.

    it isn't wrong or so. What you see is rumble, vibrations picked up by the cart and tonearm, which causes the playback of subsonic frequencies.

    I found that when I set up the tt perfectly (correct cart pressure, anti skating, correct VTA and correct alignment of the cart) does lessen the rumble quite a bit. Isolating your tt will also do alot. ( placing it on a wallmounted shelf does alot). A tonearm/cart mismatch also generates more rumbe than usual...

    but, don't be afraid or so

    Keep them spinning,
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    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  4. #4
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    So is there anything I should do to stop this?

    I believe the turntable is set up correctly, the tone arm and cartridge are all standard and came with the turntable. I would assume they are matched alright? The turntable is not near the speakers. The phonostage is built into the amp.

  5. #5
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    Hi dj,
    My own experience such as yours have led me to the shaft spindle. There is no 100% cure, but try to oil the spindle. There are dedicated oils for TT, but I'm not fussy and use the SAE 80/90W manual transmission oil for cars. This may help reduce your cone excursion. Not to mention, better sound.

  6. #6
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj_daniel88
    is this normal? i was just a bit concerned i might have got my set up wrong or something. can this damage the speakers??
    Strictly speaking, subsonic noise is not normal. The question is whether or not it happens with all your discs. Some recordings contain the noise. If this occurs with all records, then it is caused by the playback system / environment.

    I used to live in an old house with a suspended floor. If anyone walked through the room, I would get this kind of subsonic trash. Solution: try moving the turntable to a more stable area. Some folks have suspended the turntable from the wall. You might try either mass loading the turntable rack and/or giving it better isolation. Short of expensive turntable isolation platforms, you might try buying a couple of squash balls. Cut each in half and use those as footers.

    rw

  7. #7
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    What if your stereo plays flat to 10Hz?

  8. #8
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    What if your stereo plays flat to 10Hz?
    Then, you do as Harry Pearson does and get an $8k Halcyonics Micro 80 active isolation unit on which to place your turntable. It operates from 0.6 hz up.

    Halcyonics Isolation

    rw

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Then, you do as Harry Pearson does and get an $8k Halcyonics Micro 80 active isolation unit on which to place your turntable. It operates from 0.6 hz up.

    Halcyonics Isolation

    rw
    That's a little too much to my taste
    Wouldn't it suck though to know you've made all those efforts to have it flat to 10Hz just to know you can't play your TT?

  10. #10
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    A good solution for me was to pick up a Granite Inspection Plate. The one I have is by ACE and was made in 1970. These inpsection plates are precision milled granite and and vary in size. The plate I got is perfect to fit on the top of my custom steel rack, and weighs in at over 175lbs!! Amazing considering that its not that big. But it does work wonders for providing a solid largely resonance-free base. Probably not as good as a Minus K base or Halcyonics, but then the inspection plate onlyt cost me $120 instead of $3,000 or $8,000

  11. #11
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Read up on this article from back in 1982

    http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_ba...pdf/ab1982.pdf

    I find majority of the content to be useful and not out-dated. I imagine it's a good read for all with different experience levels.

    JRA

  12. #12
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    Sorry to bring up such an old topic again... But I still haven't found a cure to this problem... The lsi9's are sitting on speaker stands , with the turntable sitting on top of a cabinet, far from the speakers..

    is there a particular setting I should set my tone arm/cartridge to? i haven't changed anything i have just set it up according to the manual with the original cartridge and stylus.

  13. #13
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    DJ D,

    Title of this thread says Vinyl surface noise, but you are just concerned about your woofers moving back and forth excessively, right? This can always be cured with a proper setup. Can you post a picture of your room and or cabinet your TT rests on?
    Make sure your TT and cabinet isnt near an object that creates vibration.

    Here are 3 suggestions you may need to reconfirm. Even if it doesnt fix your problem, Your analog playback with improve tremendously on other areas. Try them out and see if it can cure this problem.

    1. Have you leveled your TT?
    If not, then go spend $4 at a hardware store and get yourself a decent (12"?) level.
    I used to use a bubble/circular level, but have learned since. They are worth less.
    If you can't adjust your TT feet, then it might be best to get yourself a set(3 cts and NOT 4) of adjustable cones to place underneath your TT. They can be had for cheap and do act as great isolating device.

    2. What is your cart's tracking force(VTF)?
    Alot of people assume the reading on the counterweight is the correct forced applied to cartridge stylus. If not already, do yourself and LP a favor and grab a Shure Stylus forcegauge. It's quite possible that your stylus is tracking LP surface with improper force. Too much force will damange LP and fidelity. Same goes for Less force and could cure your feedback problem. I think Shure increased the price on their gauge for the first time in forever, but it is defintely worth it. Be sure to level your TT first, then measure your Vertical Tracking Force(VTF).

    3. Have you checked your cartridge alignment?
    If your cart came with your Pro-Ject, then chances are they didnt mount it properly.

    Check out this thread below to check your cartridge alignment.
    I've found it very usefully.
    Cheapest Analog Tweak

    If you do not have a cartridge alignment tool then print up a protractor from a post#11 on a link below.

    Free Stuff. No Ipod/promotion related please.


    JRA

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