Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 51
  1. #26
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    But not the way I'm hearing it

    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy
    is far and away better sounding than the same on cd.
    Blame my very modest system and particularly my distinctly mid-fi TT & cartridge, maybe, but I haven't found this to be the case. My CD playback capability is modest too, for that matter.

    I compared my original issue Kleiber Beethoven 5th on LP (in excellent condition) with a recent CD reissue and with the SACD release (in stereo only). The SACD version won by a landslide. The CD and LP versions had a quite different tonal balance (from my playback equipment), but the felt the CD won out overall.

    I posted these result and was denounce from all quarters. Vinyl lovers' responses were few but distainful. Most of the debate came from those who maintain that CD is scientifically the perfect medium and SACD can't really be better. OK, OK, but one more thing about that comparison, neither the Kleiber/Beethoven CD nor SACD versions offer the best from these media have to offer.

    In any case I won't be upgrading my vinyl playback capability in order to enjoy my tiny, 200 LP collection -- nor to have the pleasure of scrounging yard sales and flea markets to find the odd grain of wheat amongst the chafe.

  2. #27
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    Yet again skeptic tells it like it is, IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    ... Therefore, when you are making judgements of vinyls versus cds, you may actually be comparing recording engineers techniques of yesteryear with those used today and with the slapdash reissues where they get 'em in, through, and out as cheap and fast as they can because they are only catering to the nostalgia crowd. ...
    That's about it. For my part, the best-recorded CDs sound great and are the equal of even the best LPs.

  3. #28
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Feanor, you must have found a good one

    I still have none that I would call better than vinyl but I'm still looking. I will admit that some are very good. I also believe that if you upgraded your analog rig, you might be surprised at how good it can be. Your point about only having a couple hundred LP's, well, you probably won't upgrade but still 200 LP's is quite alot of music. If you did upgrade, you might be inclined to buy more vinyl. I still buy it often and am very rarely dissappointed.
    I listened to an LP from 1975 the other day of Virgil Fox playing Bach and it's a very good recording (Sine Qua Non #SQN 7766). Mr Fox's ability to play the pipe organ was as good as I've ever heard and it is certainly evident on this album. In spite of the few tics and pops that I heard, this album sounds much more real than any pipe organ CD that I have yet. I'm still picking up a few to see if it gets any better. So far, the CD's that I have of pipe organ music have a digital sound that destroys the sound of the organ. On the LP, I get the sense of air movement and a completely natural sound that I have yet to find on CD.
    I also listened to Tori Amos, Under The Pink, on pink vinyl. I have never heard a piano sound better in my home. This is one very fine piece of vinyl. I will pick up the CD version out of curiosity and compare the two just for kicks. Skep, if you are reading this, let me know if you have the Virgil Fox LP that I mentioned or are familiar with Sine Qua Non, I never heard of them but it's a nice piece of vinyl.
    I'd also suggest that you give the Tori Amos album a listen. There is some very beautiful music on this album and while you may not like all of it, I'm sure that you would get some enjoyment from it and maybe agree that there are young people today with talent who have a great understanding of classical music and composition. She is an excellent pianist, writer and sings very well. Whether the pink vinyl version sounds better than the black vinyl, I have no idea but I suspect not. The piano and other orchestral instruments (strings) came across as well as I've ever heard. For $20 or less, (the pink version was $20) you could hear it too, vinyl or CD version. If I had the capability, I'd burn you a copy from the LP but I do not yet have this capability, all in due time. I really would like to hear what you think of this LP. Are you willing to try a $10 to $20 experiment?
    If you buy the CD and don't like it, I'll buy it as I don't have one on CD yet. How about that? A money back guarantee.
    Bill

  4. #29
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    Pink

    http://www.circuitcity.com/frame1.js...i%3dccity-prod

    thats utp on vinyl for cheeeep (plus tax) and delivered! maybe i'll have to get that. white stripes-elephant is also avail here. i snagged that some time ago and its pretty good, and their other vinyl is here too, cheeeeep.

    yoshimi is another item. a guy could spend a bunch and still get vinyl.

    aint life grand?
    ...regards...tr

  5. #30
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    I do have a Vigil Fox LP ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jbangelfish
    ... I listened to an LP from 1975 the other day of Virgil Fox playing Bach and it's a very good recording (Sine Qua Non #SQN 7766). Mr Fox's ability to play the pipe organ was as good as I've ever heard and it is certainly evident on this album.
    ... Mine is on Crystal Clear Records, CCS-7001, "Virgil Fox -- The Fox Touch", copywrite 1977. In includes Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, and Joseph Jongen's Toccata from his Symphonie Concertante. As I recall I bought it (new) because of its reputed greate sound. Also, as I recall, it does have great sound, though I haven't listened to it in as long as 20 years!!

    Maybe I should give it a listen.

  6. #31
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    feanie, thats a dtd

    and should shatter any other rocoeding of the same work. crystal clear was a great label and i believe bert whyte from AUDIO magazine did some engineering for them. he was involved in the dvelopment of stereo recording, an AUTHORITY.
    ...regards...tr

  7. #32
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Tommy, Feanor

    Tommy, if you don't have a copy of Tori Amos, Under the Pink, get one, you will not be dissappointed. As good as anything I've heard from her, very classical and very beautiful, the pink vinyl was great, whatever the reason.
    Feanor, listen to your old Virgil Fox, this guy makes a pipe organ rock like nobody I've ever heard. At this point, it is very easy for me to say that I have never heard a better organist. He was recognized as a prodigy by age ten and played before 1500 people by age 14. He went to college on an organ scholarship and covered 4 years in 1 but stayed on for several more years. My recording is all Bach, including the Fugue in D Minor and others. I listened with my 22 year old son (pretty loud) and it reminded him of a rock concert. The man could play and was very fond of using the pipe organ's full potential. I'm getting more on both vinyl and CD (for comparison). Virgil Fox was always my dad's favorite organist and now I remember why. I got to meet him at a concert when I was about 15 or 16 and I'll never forget the experience.
    Bill

  8. #33
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332
    [QUOTE=jbangelfish]I still have none that I would call better than vinyl but I'm still looking. I will admit that some are very good. I also believe that if you upgraded your analog rig, you might be surprised at how good it can be. Your point about only having a couple hundred LP's, well, you probably won't upgrade but still 200 LP's is quite alot of music. If you did upgrade, you might be inclined to buy more vinyl. I still buy it often and am very rarely dissappointed.
    I listened to an LP from 1975 the other day of Virgil Fox playing Bach and it's a very good recording (Sine Qua Non #SQN 7766). Mr Fox's ability to play the pipe organ was as good as I've ever heard and it is certainly evident on this album. In spite of the few tics and pops that I heard, this album sounds much more real than any pipe organ CD that I have yet. I'm still picking up a few to see if it gets any better. So far, the CD's that I have of pipe organ music have a digital sound that destroys the sound of the organ. On the LP, I get the sense of air movement and a completely natural sound that I have yet to find on CD.

    Sheesh, I thought this was my post! You are 100% correct. As a matter of fact, I just found a great Bach organ CD for cheap and, as usual, it's missing a bit of musical information compared to the LP version. I know that some people prefer the sound of CD's to LP's but I can't imagine why. I have to assume that they either haven't taken care of their LP's, haven't maximized vinyl's performance with decent gear, or haven't a clue as to what live music actually sounds like.

    Feanor, my strong suspicion is as jbangelfish says - if you upgraded your analog front end a bit, you might find yourself picking up more vinyl. 200 LP's isn't nothing! I'll bet you have some incredible music in those grooves that'll make most CD's sound like the digital filth they are! And I'd further bet that you could find some good used gear that wouldn't cost that much. And once you upgrade, you don't have to do it again until your cartridge needs to be retipped. If you decide to go that way, good luck and let us know if we can help.

  9. #34
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    I have some V. Fox CD's ordered

    I hope they are good but who know's? Again, I'm buying all his vinyl that I can find in mint or near mint condition. I think he passed away in 1980 so hopes for new stuff from him is futile. He had some great pressings in the 70's and even earlier. It will be interesting to see what I think of the CD's.
    Bill

  10. #35
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Tommy, I heard the White Stripes CD

    Elephant and it's a pretty good CD. Nothing irritating about it but I'd probably buy the vinyl. For some reason the only song that I've heard on the radio or seen a video of is one that I can't stand. Lot's of good music on this one.
    Bill
    PS, Tommy, where ya bin?

  11. #36
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    elephant

    at circuitcity.com, look it up, click on other formats once you find it. it says special order. vinyl baby.

    i havent liked the new format here and have been hanging at aa mostly, but i have posted here on various boards. audiocircle.com also. annex once in a while.

    good hearing from you. have a happy....
    ...regards...tr

  12. #37
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Tommy, Format takes getting used to

    And I still don't like it as well as the old one, but in some ways, has advantages too.
    I used to post on aa too but seemed more of a high end and wire freaks crowd. I did learn alot about tubes there. Anyway, good to hear from you. I'll look for the White Stripes vinyl at a few sources. Ebay is often as good as any. Have a great new year.
    Bill

  13. #38
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    25

    What Is Your Turntable History?

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    I remind you that rb performed an at home experiment which proved at least to him and his wife that a cd dubbed from a vinyl record was indistinguishable. Therefore, when you are making judgements of vinyls versus cds, you may actually be comparing recording engineers techniques of yesteryear with those used today and with the slapdash reissues where they get 'em in, through, and out as cheap and fast as they can because they are only catering to the nostalgia crowd.

    And you are entitled to your opinion of course but for me, the shortcomings of vinyl are so objectionable that I'll take a well made cd over a phonograph record every time.

    I find it amusing that record lovers always seem to have to justify their preference to other people while those of us who like cds better, possibly the vast majority, rarely if ever feel the same compulsion. As for why there are audible differences that make some vinyls sound better than some cds to some people, we've been over that ground too many times before to make it interesting for me to discuss it again.
    IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOUR DISLIKE OF VINLY IS BECAUSE OF YOUR PAST EQUIPTMENT?

  14. #39
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications
    Posts
    9,025
    I disagree that SACD and DVD-A are not making inroads...in fact there are more players becoming available for both formats, and several good universal players that will do the job as well as any separate component already on the market. The formats are just too new to judge their success at market penetration.
    Until these new players come down a bit in price, and DVD-A/SACD leave the introductory phase of the product cycle, I'm stuck with a second hand SACD player that's merely adequate.
    As far as Classical music being the most sonically demanding, you won't get an argument from me, though various forms of rock do match classical from time to time.
    My humble comparisons with Vinyl and SACD have found mixed results...good SACD recordings are clearly superior to good Vinyl recordings, and the 5.1 can be quite impressive...bad SACD recordings are just disappointing.
    There's something soothing about an LP spinning though, and I find a more intimate, nostalgic attachment to them...if you use LP's you know what I mean. Digital discs just seem cold and disposable, but we're talking auditory not visual here so take that for what it's worth.
    SACD and DVD-A will finally provide audiophiles with a format that can outperform vinyl. I know a few CD's that have, whether because of better recording, I don't know. But red book CD's are just too inconsistent.
    I often wonder how much my preference for vinyl comes from the fact that LP's are what I grew up with, what I am use to, and what I know. They're my standard. Some of my friends actually prefer CD's I find terrible.
    I think this discussion is rather moot, as nobody is "out to replace" vinyl...merely a change in formats is to provide other benefits. Too many people want to be "leading edge", whatever that means, and feel a need to replace LP's.
    That SACD/DVD-A can sound better than vinyl is great. I will keep my vinyl collection until the day I die, because they still sound good.

  15. #40
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    277

    I don't understand the raised hackles with all of this

    Yeah, I play vinyl. I like vinyl. I prefer vinyl. I have CDs, I play CDs, I usually don't like them as much, but some are really good. Some of the new vinyl product out there doesn't sound much different than the CD. On most recordings that are a few years old (the latest "fad" LPs not included), ON MY SYSTEM (or my buddies even better systems), vinyl always comes out ahead. That has been my experience, and theirs.

    Why such a statement would be inflammatory, I don't understand. The fact that CD is a compromised medium seems to get some people a bit miffed too. 25 years ago when the development work began, what kind of computer did you have? I'll guarantee you, if you did (geek!!), it was a Tinkertoy compared to an 8088 machine of 17-18 years ago. Where are we today? My PII 350 is a dog compared to the new P4 machines. Look at the learning curve. The fact that we've gone as far as we have on the CD bandwagon is amazing. When the redbook format was developed, the engineers really didn't know crap compared to the knowledge base assembled when SACD/DVD-A were launched. I hold some pretty high hopes for those formats, and it won't take 20 years to get it right. The fact remains that CD is compromised by the technical limitations of the day. It is the preferred format due to the lack of noise and convenience...and that is fine. SACD/DVDA are fighting against MP3 for the future of music reproduction. Kids think MP3 is great, I find it awful. But the day will soon arrive where there are more songs in the world on MP3 than linear PCM...very soon, it may have already passed. (Disposable music on a disposable medium...fitting isn't it?)

    If you're happy, I'm happy. If a few of us prefer vinyl, we aren't wrong, or stupid, or Luddites, or in fantasy land. CDs were "perfect" only in the advertising campaign "Perfect sound forever", now that the licensing revenue stream has dried up its time for something "even more perfect". I've heard SACD and DVD-A, and hear a lot of promise in the format. The bad thing is, while we are arguing sound quality of the best readily available formats, some kid just downloaded 100 MP3s from someplace and is in his own misguided heaven. That's the kid we have to focus our attention on. We all probably know at least one, maybe our own (mine are too young). Give them a listen, even if you have to go buy some music they like and learn to tolerate it. (I can't go as far as rap though...I'll sit through country, opera, modern R&B...without "rappy bits", and I've even survived some thrash metal)

    Vinyl calls, just got new re-issue of Black Sabbath's "We Sold Our Soul"...awful recording, even in 70's rock terms, but the music is great, and dang, the vinyl sounds better than the CD version, AND has ALL of the songs. Warning got dropped off of the CD, and it is one of my favorites on the album. I almost cried when I bought the CD and found out later.
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  16. #41
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332

    Black Sabbath???

    It doesn't matter that the vinyl sounds better than the CD. Black Sabbath is NOT music! Repeat after me: it's NOT MUSIC! Only classical is music. Everything else is crap and YOU'RE a moron for listening to rock. Audio systems were only developed for classical because that's the only music worth recreating accurately. It's more complex and no composer worth a crap writes for anything other than classical. You are wasting your time with rock. You have been dumbed down by a musically corrupt society.

    I can post stuff like the above because I'm satirizing Skeptic. How he can say it and believe it is one of life's great mysteries. It takes all kinds to make a world

    I'll have to check out that reissue - sounds like a winner! Speaking of Black Sabbath and classical, I recently bought a disc of Sabbath tunes played by a string quartet! It's a hoot but it also shows just how musically adept those guys were. Their stuff is riff-oriented but it's also clever. It's a fun disc - not perhaps geared towards die hard Sabbath fans but I enjoy it. But I also LOVE string quartet music so it's a nice mix for me. If I had to go through life listening to only one form of music, I'd be more deranged than I already am!

  17. #42
    Forum Regular soundhd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    10
    I would not say that Vinyl is King..........I would say it's another source for listening to music........a very good source..........a source that takes alot to get it right but still a very good source..............

  18. #43
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    277

    No, DMK, I'm only half an idiot, I followed Sabbath

    with a Bruch chaser, followed by Willie Nelson's Stardust. (varied enough for you?) I will stand my ground there. The re-issue was only $20, not bad for a double album. It is quiet, and the recording is as good as you would expect...PA quality.

    I always got a kick out of them. But you are right on the riffs, some are very cool.

    You know, I don't trust people who can't break out of just one form of music. Too much out there.

    BTW, I got a really cool re-issue of Yes, The Yes Album. Must have done some re-engineering because you can hear stuff that was so buried in the mix, I've never heard it before, and I've heard that album 1,000 times over the past 25+ years. Also new AC/DC, which I don't think is as good as the Sabbath recordingwise but wasn't bad. My college days return...with a vengeance. Midlife crisis?

    Have a good one.
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  19. #44
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    i AM the king

    a quote form a local big screen tv seller. he claims to be the king of big screen tv.

    anyway, youre right, theres no king except great sound. a great deal of that can be gotten from vinyl, some from cd, and certainly sacd. but the feeling of rightness happens more often with vinyl than any other mode. and it is done with more widely varyinng equipment than any other mode.

    getting it right isnt as hard as some make out either. the cheeeeepest music hall tt can be VERY rewarding and it even comes with a good cartridge.

    good rbcd is possible, but for cheeeep, one must buy a cheeeeep sony sacd/dvd/cdp such as the ns755v (about $250). and the sacd aint bad on it either. none of the products are state of the art but excellent values that are readily available.
    ...regards...tr

  20. #45
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,276

  21. #46
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    down there
    Posts
    6,852

    feeling isolated?

    You hearin' the crickets chirp down there, J?

  22. #47
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,276
    Nah, just music

  23. #48
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Mortsel, Antwerp, Belgium, Europe, Earth
    Posts
    3,056
    holy thread revival!!

    and yes, vinyl still rules
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  24. #49
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    277
    Yeah, I go away for a while and I guess I don't miss much when I did. Kind of back to where I left off.

    Space
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  25. #50
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by spacedeckman
    Yeah, I go away for a while and I guess I don't miss much when I did. Kind of back to where I left off.

    Space
    LOL! I was just thinking the same thing.

    I guess vinyl is still King, then?
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Another web source for rare vinyl
    By tentoze in forum Rave Recordings
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-27-2003, 11:23 AM
  2. King Crimson DVD: Eyes Wide Open
    By kingcrim05 in forum Favorite Films
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-19-2003, 08:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •