Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 64
  1. #26
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    162

    A few small clarifications

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    nobody is pressing new vinyl on a serious basis.

    the vinyl phonograph record industry is reduced to a small niche market of die hard audiophiles. To most people, they are more like museum pieces than technology.
    First, if by serious you mean not in large numbers, you are correct. If you mean that nobody is earnest and sincere about producing vinyl, you are not correct. Vinyl production is in a bit of a resurgence with labels such as Thrill Jockey and Chesky producing quality vinyl. And they're quite serious about it. Astride that, production and sales of turntables and LP playing accoutrements are at their highest levels since the middle 1980's. But vinyl will not, of course, be back with any strength resembling what it had prior to the CD's climb to prominence.

    Second, yes vinyl is a small niche market, mostly comprised of audiophiles i.e people who care about sound quality. The mass market has declared that they are backing the CD. Mass markets are, by definition, large. They are NOT, by definition, correct. In this case, they took the convenience road, IMHO. Quality isn't always backed by the numbers of people. McDonald's is a case in point.

    I agree with your final statement. But a Rembrandt painting is also a museum piece. Has Rembrandt been bettered? Well... that's a personal judgment call, the very same type of which the poster you've responded to will make despite any protestations or pleas by you and I. And that's the way it should be.

  2. #27
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    1,188
    When I said serious, I meant in large quantity with large sales volume. While there may be some small companies still pressing vinyl for the niche market, it is insignificant in terms of the overall market and in terms of the market for vinyl that once existed.

    As for convenience versus quality, I don't think that holds up. Cassette tapes are far more convenient than vinyl. You can play them in your car, while you are traveling, or just about anywhere. They are far more durable and less prone to damage too. Yet cassettes even with the advantage of Dolby never replaced vinyl records. Vinyl was king until CDs came along. And it didn't happen over night. CDs used to cost nearly $20 each when vinyl was $3 to $10 and the cheapest CD players were $1000 and up. It was the adoption by the market that drove the prices of the players and the discs down. Vinyl was doomed even before you could record your own cds but if there were any lingering doubts, that cinched it. Small wonder then that at about age 22 vinyl is viewed by most cd buyers the way 78s were viewed by LP buyers when LPs were about 22 years on the market. That would have been about 1972. At that time, 78s as anything more than a curiousity were considered a joke.

    The endless debate over which sounds better cds or vinyl will go on as always just like all the other debates such as tubes versus transistors, class A versus class B, moving coil versus moving magnet etc. You won't settle anything here.

  3. #28
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    162
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    When I said serious, I meant in large quantity with large sales volume. While there may be some small companies still pressing vinyl for the niche market, it is insignificant in terms of the overall market and in terms of the market for vinyl that once existed.

    As for convenience versus quality, I don't think that holds up. Cassette tapes are far more convenient than vinyl. You can play them in your car, while you are traveling, or just about anywhere. They are far more durable and less prone to damage too. Yet cassettes even with the advantage of Dolby never replaced vinyl records. Vinyl was king until CDs came along. And it didn't happen over night. CDs used to cost nearly $20 each when vinyl was $3 to $10 and the cheapest CD players were $1000 and up. It was the adoption by the market that drove the prices of the players and the discs down. Vinyl was doomed even before you could record your own cds but if there were any lingering doubts, that cinched it. Small wonder then that at about age 22 vinyl is viewed by most cd buyers the way 78s were viewed by LP buyers when LPs were about 22 years on the market. That would have been about 1972. At that time, 78s as anything more than a curiousity were considered a joke.

    The endless debate over which sounds better cds or vinyl will go on as always just like all the other debates such as tubes versus transistors, class A versus class B, moving coil versus moving magnet etc. You won't settle anything here.
    Agree with your first paragraph.

    As for cassettes, it was their LACK of durability that hurt them. Pre-recorded cassettes use the worst quality tape and after about 150 plays, they're as good as dead. LP's may deteriorate after 150 plays but they are still playable. It's the robustness of the medium that kept it in the forefront, between those two, anyway. With the CD, it isn't just about convenience in playing, it's also about convenience of care. With CD, very little to no care is required. That's the biggest convenience issue, IMHO.

    Your comments about 78's to LP's is certainly valid as long as you're referring to the mass market. At this time, the LP isn't in the running to win back the mass market and likely never will. It's indeed a niche market. But I've never heard anyone say that the 78 sounded superior to the LP. On the other hand, I hear that said regularly with the LP over the CD. The people that say it tend to be those with high resolution systems, a high level of concern over LP hygiene and who regularly attend live musical events. That's not to say that those type of people never prefer CD, it's to say that the LP is probably rarely or never preferred by someone other than that type.

    The debate will go on as long as there as two or more different possible preferences. As for the others listed, I could go either way and be satisfied. But so far, the sound of CD to my ears is grating and unmusical enough that it would be very difficult for me if CD's were all I had to listen to. Just my preference - I'm not trying to solve anything here. If you prefer CD's, you're better off than I as they are much more prevalent.

  4. #29
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    78s better in some areas.

    yup, thats what i said and thats what lincoln mayorga and doug sax said. it seems piano sounded better on 78s in some ways that begged for an answer.

    they reasoned that maybe the reason was that there was no tape recorded in the way to slow transients and cause phase shifts not found in 78s. so, they got a cutting lathe and cut music from the mixing board to the cutter at 33 1/3 rpm. thus was born the premium recording market and the DTD phase of it.

    thats a rather condensed version but that about what went down. dtd didnt survive due to cost factors and the pressure on the musicians to get it perfect the first time, with dtd, you cant fix it in the mix.

    still, well recorded vinyl (and most of it was and is) continues to embarrass rbcd in palpable ways. sacd and dvda much less so than rbcd. yeah, we could go on ad infinitum and not make progress but vinyl is doing actually very well in the market, considering. plus, you can buy a better tt now than ever before for less and the choices are growing.
    ...regards...tr

  5. #30
    Audiophile In-Training
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    10
    Let everyone and anyone think vinyl is dead! The selection and price of classic and used LP's are great right now, but that will change if the whole world gets back into it. I've truly enjoyed getting back to LP's and haven't listened to a CD for 3 months.

  6. #31
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    heres where to look

    http://www.recordcollectorsguild.org...rd_stores.html

    bandwith prob gone now, this is a great resource.
    Last edited by hifitommy; 05-01-2004 at 06:28 AM.
    ...regards...tr

  7. #32
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    538
    Yea... LP's are dead. And maybe their non-popularity means some good buys can still be had. I went to an LP Speciality Shop that was closing in 1985 and bought LOTS of DGG, DECCA (NOT Decca London) and EMI LP's for $3 each. I cheated in many cases and bought discs that had such laruels as "Grande Pre du Disc Award". [The cheating provided very nice results....]

    I believe CD's offer about 100 dB dynamic range while an LP offers about 45 dB maximum. Not much of a contest to me. And there is no way a stylus rubbing over a vinyl surface will produce the extremely low distortion inherent to a CD. One only has to remember that a quickie-rerelease of an LP on CD is not likely a good example of what a CD can offer.....

    I have not messed with my SME for a while- I really plan to do so one of these days. I still have my LP trove. The thing about CD's is that they lack INVOLVEMENT ! I was always fiddling with the SME but I only have to put a CD onto the tray and push "play". Then it plays, or it doesn't play. If the former, I have no further involvement; if the later, well, too bad.......

  8. #33
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    162
    [QUOTE=Mash] The thing about CD's is that they lack INVOLVEMENT !

    Yes, the CD's lack of musical involvement is one of my complaints. For all the technical measurements that show CD's superiority, it just doesn't happen when the music hits the speakers.

  9. #34
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332
    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy
    yup, thats what i said and thats what lincoln mayorga and doug sax said. it seems piano sounded better on 78s in some ways that begged for an answer.

    they reasoned that maybe the reason was that there was no tape recorded in the way to slow transients and cause phase shifts not found in 78s. so, they got a cutting lathe and cut music from the mixing board to the cutter at 33 1/3 rpm. thus was born the premium recording market and the DTD phase of it.

    thats a rather condensed version but that about what went down. dtd didnt survive due to cost factors and the pressure on the musicians to get it perfect the first time, with dtd, you cant fix it in the mix.

    still, well recorded vinyl (and most of it was and is) continues to embarrass rbcd in palpable ways. sacd and dvda much less so than rbcd. yeah, we could go on ad infinitum and not make progress but vinyl is doing actually very well in the market, considering. plus, you can buy a better tt now than ever before for less and the choices are growing.
    I just hauled out my old 78 player and I'm spinning some shellac! It's an old GE with tubes! The actual sound is pretty crunchy but there's something about the authenticity of shellac when listening to those old swing tunes. Ziggy Elman's got a new baby right now and just before that Woody Herman was telling me about the faucet that keeps dripping and keeping him awake. "Bloop Bleep, the faucet keeps dripping and I can't sleep". When someone said "they don't write lyrics like they used to", do ya think they were referring to this song? I hope not!

  10. #35
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    now THAT is nostalgia

    we vinylites are accused of liking our sound because of nostalgia and those accusers are wrong. THIS however, IS and why not.

    you just may be old enough to remember 78s being played as the primary record source, i know i am. i remember the changeover from steam to diesel trains as well. les paul and mary ford singing 'hold that tiger' on the radio in the late 40s. those big old zenith radios with the big speakers that had electromagnets that hummed.

    but i play vinyl for its superior sound presentation. i'll admit that it doesnt hurt to get records for a buck!
    ...regards...tr

  11. #36
    Magnepan HT User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fremont, CA
    Posts
    67

    I Guess I Helped to Revive Vinyl Again

    Just recently purchased a Sumiko Pro-ject 1.2 turntable to replay my LP collection that I haven't touched in over 15 years. Did a comparison of the turntable to my Sony CD player and the sound from the turntable sounded more natural and vibrant vs. the Sony. The CD of course did not have the pops and clicks but it certainly sounded much more edgy and harsh. Now I am rediscovering my LP collection again. Next project is look at one of those record cleaning machines vs. the standard record brush that I use currently that I purchased new back in 1981!

  12. #37
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    until you can afford a rcm

    try this:

    http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vin...es/296270.html

    wet the brush in the sink, put a SMALL dab of dawn dish soap on your finger, and soap the brush. wet the record (all this with the faucet) and then wash both sides of the record. the brush follows the grooves pretty well and really gets the record clean.

    rinse, rinse, rinse, and use a sink sprayer if you have one. it makes for a splattery mess but its worth it to get the dawn rinsed off. any sign of sudsing and you need to repeat the rinsing until there is NO sudsing .

    dry with a paper towel thoroughly and air dry it by waving the disc in the air with both hands. it should now be ready to play. its no VPI but not bad.
    ...regards...tr

  13. #38
    Magnepan HT User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fremont, CA
    Posts
    67

    Thanks for the Suggestion

    Tr,

    I'll have to give your suggestion a try. Used to "wash" the records years ago but didn't think to try the lint brush method. Surprisingly, my children now request that I play the records vs. the CD. They were surprised by the analog sound and now appreciate the "work" involved to play a record. May have to look this weekend at the various garage sales to see if I can find some quality LPs and maybe if I'm lucky, score on a record cleaning machine. You just never know. Thanks again for the suggestion to tide me over.

    Ben

  14. #39
    RGA
    RGA is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,539
    Quote Originally Posted by Mash
    Yea... LP's are dead. And maybe their non-popularity means some good buys can still be had. I went to an LP Speciality Shop that was closing in 1985 and bought LOTS of DGG, DECCA (NOT Decca London) and EMI LP's for $3 each. I cheated in many cases and bought discs that had such laruels as "Grande Pre du Disc Award". [The cheating provided very nice results....]

    I believe CD's offer about 100 dB dynamic range while an LP offers about 45 dB maximum. Not much of a contest to me. And there is no way a stylus rubbing over a vinyl surface will produce the extremely low distortion inherent to a CD. One only has to remember that a quickie-rerelease of an LP on CD is not likely a good example of what a CD can offer.....

    I have not messed with my SME for a while- I really plan to do so one of these days. I still have my LP trove. The thing about CD's is that they lack INVOLVEMENT ! I was always fiddling with the SME but I only have to put a CD onto the tray and push "play". Then it plays, or it doesn't play. If the former, I have no further involvement; if the later, well, too bad.......
    You don't get more dynamic range with cd - what you get is cd manufacturers who changed the definition of dynamic range to suit a marketing campaign. CD's have Quantizing noise "an artifact of the analog to digital coversion process. If all were perfect that noise would be down where the last binary digit is. The noise figure would then be expressed by the formula:

    20 log(2b-1) where b is the number of system bits. Most modern systems use 16 bits (but throw one bit away on the parity check), and so:

    20 log(215 - 1) = 90.3db

    Now a dynamic range over 90db is nough to make a recording engineer drool, but don't drool yet. That figure relates to the peak-to-peak value of the audio signal, rather than the usual root mean square voltage value. To convert you subtract the following from the noise value:

    20 log (2 X Square root of 2) = 9.03db.

    As you'll notice our dynamic range is now down to 81db. And you can't record at that level because the digital "ceiling" is far harder and more awful than that of analogdisc or tape. It would be a good idea to knock 8db off that figure. Total usable dynamic range : 73db even under ideal conditions. This isn't earth-shaking. A good analog recorder (12.5cm stereo, 76cm/sec) can boast dynamic range of some 74dB. Add dolby or dbx and ther's no comparison. Incidentally, all these figures refer to unweighted noise readings, treating noises of all frequencies equally. Weighting curves are often used by both sides to make the specs look prettier." (Paul Bergman).

  15. #40
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    40
    Hey happy_ears,
    I have that Monty Python album. The first time I queued up the "other" groove, I thought I was going insane.

  16. #41
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cal
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    Yesterday I was in Borders buying some books. The "kid" behind the counter was looking up a book about Jackie Kennedy Onasis in his computer terminal for my sister. He had never heard of her. Or Jack Benny. Or Kim Novak. Or Jane Mansfield. The JFK era was to him the way the Civil War was to me when I was in school, ancient history. He had never seen a vinyl phonograph record, or a turntable in his life, only heard about them. He mentioned that he read that some audiophiles think they sound better than compact discs. He was neither stupid nor uneducated. He was a 19 year old computer geek type who is studying for a degree in computer engineering. I felt very old.
    I hear reel to reel is on the comeback.
    Look & Listen

  17. #42
    Forum Regular Modernaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Downtown L.A.
    Posts
    52

    Not that Vinyl is dead, that music listening may be dead...

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    Yesterday I was in Borders buying some books. The "kid" behind the counter was looking up a book about Jackie Kennedy Onasis in his computer terminal for my sister. He had never heard of her. Or Jack Benny. Or Kim Novak. Or Jane Mansfield. The JFK era was to him the way the Civil War was to me when I was in school, ancient history. He had never seen a vinyl phonograph record, or a turntable in his life, only heard about them. He mentioned that he read that some audiophiles think they sound better than compact discs. He was neither stupid nor uneducated. He was a 19 year old computer geek type who is studying for a degree in computer engineering. I felt very old.
    I think that this is an example of how "geek culture" has really come to over take how current generations and future music listening generations are appreciating music.

    Its not about you being or feeling old. Its about how kids nowadays with iPods and iTunes, Sony Connect, ATRAC this, MP3 that, AFLAC this, OooG that and whatever to listen to music.

    Its also incredibly hard to think the kid hasn't seen a record, either at a second hadn store or at least in PICTURES. He may be BS-ing you to MAKE you feel old and "unhip" in the corporate sense of the word...

    And an educated kid that doesn't know about records at least, MAY BE uneducated in a way.

    But this is not his fault completely, he's still responsible to EDUCATING himself on things. But also on companies like Apple and a few of the big record companies that promote the computer way of listening of music.

    I think is the worst way to appreciate and enjoy serious music listening. Its the lazy way and distracting way. Some people get into the fascination of the computer rather than the music.

    Much like computers and software, computer companies taking over the production of music. It makes the people making the music trip to much on the latest "Macs" or the latest "Protools".

  18. #43
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    34

    That kid is living a sheltered life

    Has he never gone clubbing? What does he think DJ's mix with? Sure some use CDs, but no club worth their weight in alcohol would do w/o turntables.

  19. #44
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    884

    Cut the mythology, RGA!

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    You don't get more dynamic range with cd - what you get is cd manufacturers who changed the definition of dynamic range to suit a marketing campaign. CD's have Quantizing noise "an artifact of the analog to digital coversion process. If all were perfect that noise would be down where the last binary digit is. The noise figure would then be expressed by the formula:

    20 log(2b-1) where b is the number of system bits. Most modern systems use 16 bits (but throw one bit away on the parity check), and so:

    20 log(215 - 1) = 90.3db

    Now a dynamic range over 90db is nough to make a recording engineer drool, but don't drool yet. That figure relates to the peak-to-peak value of the audio signal, rather than the usual root mean square voltage value. To convert you subtract the following from the noise value:

    20 log (2 X Square root of 2) = 9.03db.

    As you'll notice our dynamic range is now down to 81db. And you can't record at that level because the digital "ceiling" is far harder and more awful than that of analogdisc or tape. It would be a good idea to knock 8db off that figure. Total usable dynamic range : 73db even under ideal conditions. This isn't earth-shaking. A good analog recorder (12.5cm stereo, 76cm/sec) can boast dynamic range of some 74dB. Add dolby or dbx and ther's no comparison. Incidentally, all these figures refer to unweighted noise readings, treating noises of all frequencies equally. Weighting curves are often used by both sides to make the specs look prettier." (Paul Bergman).
    Paul Bergman clearly didn't know what he was talking about. My advice is not to get your technical information from that rag, UHF.

    Aside from all the other crap, he has evidently not heard of dither. With a little dither, CD players can have good linearity down to below -110 dB, which should be impossible, according to Bergman. If you had read some good reviews, you'd know that. Look at the low level linearity measurements for different players. Here's a link to a review of an old Radio Shack portable CD player in Stereophile in 1994. Check out the low level linearity graph in Figure 5, which shows its linearity was pretty good even a -100 dB (and this player is nothing special).

    http://stereophile.com/digitalsource...0/index12.html

    Others have reasonable linearity down to below -110 dB, as with this SimAudio product (Stereophile doesn't seem to review many reasonably priced CDPs!):

    http://stereophile.com/digitalsource...io/index4.html

    So much for the myth that CDs don't have more dynamic range than analog tapes!!
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.

  20. #45
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat D
    Paul Bergman clearly didn't know what he was talking about. My advice is not to get your technical information from that rag, UHF.

    Aside from all the other crap, he has evidently not heard of dither. With a little dither, CD players can have good linearity down to below -110 dB, which should be impossible, according to Bergman. If you had read some good reviews, you'd know that. Look at the low level linearity measurements for different players. Here's a link to a review of an old Radio Shack portable CD player in Stereophile in 1994. Check out the low level linearity graph in Figure 5, which shows its linearity was pretty good even a -100 dB (and this player is nothing special).

    http://stereophile.com/digitalsource...0/index12.html

    Others have reasonable linearity down to below -110 dB, as with this SimAudio product (Stereophile doesn't seem to review many reasonably priced CDPs!):

    http://stereophile.com/digitalsource...io/index4.html

    So much for the myth that CDs don't have more dynamic range than analog tapes!!
    Thank you for this. Anyone who says that CD does not have a greater dynamic range than vinyl, is either dreaming, delusional, or totally uneducated in digital audio.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  21. #46
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    [QUOTE=rb122]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mash
    The thing about CD's is that they lack INVOLVEMENT !

    Yes, the CD's lack of musical involvement is one of my complaints. For all the technical measurements that show CD's superiority, it just doesn't happen when the music hits the speakers.
    Some CD lack involvement, not all of them. Some CD sound wonderful, others are terrible. Some LP sound wonderful, others sound awful. These comparisons should be done on a case by case basis, not as a format as a whole.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  22. #47
    RGA
    RGA is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,539
    Paul bergman writes on that as well -- get the book.

    This guy is using a pretyt low grade turntable in the Rega P3 and still gets pretty decent results. It would be nice if he used a listenable turntable arm and cart -- but I guess we all have budgets.
    http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...CDformats2.php

    Also is there a reason to be dredging up uear old threads -- my last post here was in 2004? Do you have to go this far back just to "try" and be righht about something? Get a life people -- who really cares -- if you value music over gear then some stuff is only available on vinyl and regardless to whether something si 2db more of something or less if you want to hear the album you need to have both formats.
    Last edited by RGA; 07-22-2005 at 08:12 PM.

  23. #48
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Paul bergman writes on that as well -- get the book.

    This guy is using a pretyt low grade turntable in the Rega P3 and still gets pretty decent results. It would be nice if he used a listenable turntable arm and cart -- but I guess we all have budgets.
    http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...CDformats2.php

    Also is there a reason to be dredging up uear old threads -- my last post here was in 2004? Do you have to go this far back just to "try" and be righht about something? Get a life people -- who really cares -- if you value music over gear then some stuff is only available on vinyl and regardless to whether something si 2db more of something or less if you want to hear the album you need to have both formats.
    I think its rather easy to stack analog up to the lowest end of digital audio, but how does it stand up again DVD-A or SACD. Both of them have noise floors that LP cannot even come close to. Both have dynamic range far in excess to LP, and both have frequency extension much greater than LP. Even with SACD relatively high noise floor above 20
    khz(a result of using noise shaping) it still exceeds LP by a fairly wide margin.

    It looks like when the CD exceeded the performance of LP he minimized it, and where LP could compare, he emphasized that. That is not what I would call objective. The bottom line is this, if you took a recording that was prepared directly for CD using good recording and mastering equipment, and high quality D/A stages, the LP simply could not keep up with CD. I would seriously question the quality of his sources.
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

  24. #49
    Forum Regular risabet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    177

    A quick shot and away!

    Specs are nice but all that matters in the end is the sound. On the basis of sound, in general, I prefer the sound of analog vinyl.

    Linn LP-12 (Origin Live Advanced PS w/DC Motor) Benz "ACE" medium output*TAD-150*Tube Audio Design TAD-1000 monoblocs*Parasound CD-P 1000*NAD 4020A Tuner*Velodyne F-1000 Subwoofer*Toshiba SD-4700 DVD*Motorola DTP-5100 HD converter*Pioneer PDP-4300*Martin-Logan Clarity*Audioquest cables and interconnects* Panamax 5100 power conditioner

  25. #50
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    6,826
    Quote Originally Posted by risabet
    Specs are nice but all that matters in the end is the sound. On the basis of sound, in general, I prefer the sound of analog vinyl.
    So why compare if emotion is going to be the standard instead of science? I also wonder if two channel vinyl lovers have heard enough multichannel hi rez audio to make a real comparison, or are they bound emotionally to the vinyl disc. I suspect the latter is the case most of the time, and no matter how good multichannel digital audio gets, they will hold on their discs. .
    Sir Terrence

    Titan Reference 3D 1080p projector
    200" SI Black Diamond II screen
    Oppo BDP-103D
    Datastat RS20I audio/video processor 12.4 audio setup
    9 Onkyo M-5099 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-510 power amp
    9 Onkyo M-508 power amp
    6 custom CAL amps for subs
    3 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid monitors
    18 custom 3 way horn DSP hybrid surround/ceiling speakers
    2 custom 15" sealed FFEC servo subs
    4 custom 15" H-PAS FFEC servo subs
    THX Style Baffle wall

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Vinyl is still KING
    By DMK in forum Analog Room
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-09-2007, 05:32 PM
  2. Where do I buy new vinyl?
    By Arc45 in forum Rave Recordings
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-21-2004, 08:08 PM
  3. Buckingham Nicks (a vinyl review)
    By 3-LockBox in forum Rave Recordings
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-15-2003, 06:18 AM
  4. dead rooms
    By kevin66 in forum General Audio
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-10-2003, 05:54 AM
  5. Another web source for rare vinyl
    By tentoze in forum Rave Recordings
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-27-2003, 11:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •