So hit me

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  • 11-13-2007, 07:46 AM
    Feanor
    So hit me
    Folks,

    You know perfectly well that that vinyl is a low priority for me, but I still want to maintain the capability to play it, (if only because I haven't gotten around to digitizing my LPs). I've been very stupid about getting rid of phono-capable preamps. I've sold:
    • Apt Holman preamp -- which I really, really regret
    • Cambridge 540P, (MM only phono pre)
    • Sansui C2101 preamp -- not great loss, but ...
    This have left me without a phono preamp, and I need one. My budget is < $150, used. Please set up and give me your suggestions.
  • 11-13-2007, 11:49 AM
    basite
    hard, $150 used...

    I'd say that you could look out for a jolida phonopre, they're exellent for their money, but I think they'll go for more than $150 used.

    otherwise, Pro-ject, although $150 will limit your choices there too, a parasound Zphono, or DIY, Check out http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobesp.../seduction.htm looks like a really nice phonopre, although it costs more than your budget allows...

    Good luck,
    Bert.
  • 11-13-2007, 04:27 PM
    jim goulding
    Fe- Are you needing a phono capable pre amp or just a phono amp to go with a line stage? Do you want to be able to amplify low output cartridges or high output? There is a little Bellari on Audiogon as we speak but it will only work with high output cartridges.
  • 11-13-2007, 04:36 PM
    Feanor
    Just the phono pre
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jim goulding
    Fe- Are you needing a phono capable pre amp or just a phono amp to go with a line stage? Do you want to be able to amplify low output cartridges or high output? There is a little Bellari on Audiogon as we speak but it will only work with high output cartridges.

    Jim,

    The phono preamp is all I need. The priority is MM, but I wouldn't mind getting MC too.
  • 11-13-2007, 04:39 PM
    Feanor
    Kit
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by basite
    hard, $150 used...

    I'd say that you could look out for a jolida phonopre, they're exellent for their money, but I think they'll go for more than $150 used.

    otherwise, Pro-ject, although $150 will limit your choices there too, a parasound Zphono, or DIY, Check out http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobesp.../seduction.htm looks like a really nice phonopre, although it costs more than your budget allows...

    Good luck,
    Bert.

    Hi, Bert,

    The Bottlehead is interesting, but a little higher than I want to go.
  • 11-13-2007, 06:24 PM
    jim goulding
    Fe- I'd just keep Audiogon up so you can watch the posts.
  • 11-15-2007, 04:11 PM
    royphil345
    Could you do $170.00?

    http://decibelchicago.stores.yahoo.n...uaz64phpr.html

    Think this is probably the best you'd do in the price-range. You wouldn't have to worry about the age / performance of a used component... I don't have one, but it's supposed to be a bargain. JohnMichael's been using one with a Benz Gold low output moving coil and prefers it over his Rotel that sells for more. Maybe he'll check in...
  • 11-15-2007, 06:44 PM
    Feanor
    A real possibility
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by royphil345
    Could you do $170.00?

    http://decibelchicago.stores.yahoo.n...uaz64phpr.html

    Think this is probably the best you'd do in the price-range. You wouldn't have to worry about the age / performance of a used component... I don't have one, but it's supposed to be a bargain. JohnMichael's been using one with a Benz Gold low output moving coil and prefers it over his Rotel that sells for more. Maybe he'll check in...

    Or maybe I'll just go for the 540P, ($90), which I've used before.
  • 11-15-2007, 11:26 PM
    jim goulding
    Feanor- For the love of music . . don't sell your vinyl front end short.
  • 11-16-2007, 03:53 AM
    Feanor
    1 Attachment(s)
    Bless you, Jim
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jim goulding
    Feanor- For the love of music . . don't sell your vinyl front end short.

    I know you have my emotional well-being in mind. But my real objective is to clear some space on the lower shelf
    ...
  • 11-16-2007, 10:56 AM
    dean_martin
    The Bellari VP-129 tubed phono preamp w/headphone amp, rumble filter (which I've never used, but some might find helpful) and volume control is a neat, good sounding unit. It SHOULD go for $150 on the used market because its original list price was $199 rather than $249 as it is now, but I think the ones I've seen on audiogon are going for $170+. Even though it has only one tube (12AX7 type), it does benefit from an upgraded tube - no night and day difference, but you can get a little tighter, deeper bass, slightly lusher midrange or a little more presence (performer in your room) depending on the tube. I've experienced all 3 differences by swapping tubes. Also, it's a little cheaper to go with nos tubes when you only need one.

    Oh yeah, it's a decent space saver because it's small.
  • 11-16-2007, 06:33 PM
    squeegy200
    My suggestions
    I've built a Bottlehead Seduction. It wasn't any better than the internal phono pre that was on my NAD 3020 (Holman designed). But it was a fun experiment. As with most bottlehead kits I've built, it had a bit more background noise and often requires the optional upgrades to achieve a black background to your music.

    I did have an opportunity to directly compare the Bottlehead Seduction to the APT/Holman internal phono stage, Vincent(?), a McIntosh Internal phono stage (C110?), and an NAD PP-1using a Thorens 120 and a Grado Prestige Black MM cartridge as the source. The Bottlehead Seduction was NOT the least expensive but it was the least capable of the group.

    A Bellari and an EAR 834P was also scheduled for the comparison but those did not arrive in time.

    In your price range:
    The NAD PP-2 is always highly talked about and seems to get good reviews when accompanied by the upgraded power supply. I see them often around your price range. ~$129 from online retailers.

    The Cambridge audio preamps seem to get good reviews too. The Azur 540P sells for ~$89. The Azur 640P is $159 Since you've once had one, was its performance not acceptable to you?
  • 11-16-2007, 07:54 PM
    Feanor
    Interesting
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by squeegy200
    I've built a Bottlehead Seduction. ...

    I did have an opportunity to directly compare the Bottlehead Seduction to the APT/Holman internal phono stage, Vincent(?), a McIntosh Internal phono stage (C110?), and an NAD PP-1using a Thorens 120 and a Grado Prestige Black MM cartridge as the source. The Bottlehead Seduction was NOT the least expensive but it was the least capable of the group.

    ...
    The Cambridge audio preamps seem to get good reviews too. The Azur 540P sells for ~$89. The Azur 640P is $159 Since you've once had one, was its performance not acceptable to you?

    Long, silly story, but I had and sold both an Apt Holman and a afterwards a Cambridge 540P. Nothing wrong with either of these; I should have kept the Apt in the first place. I might buy another 540P since I don't really need MC.
  • 11-16-2007, 08:33 PM
    jrhymeammo
    So 540P has Class A gain, but 640P doesnt?
    I understand that you dont want to accumilate any further expense in your analog setup, but I would swap out your DL-110. That cart is far from neutral. I believe some HOMM by AT will give you more musical bliss than what you have. Not a big fan of Grado either so if your taste is anything like mine, then whatever carts you have at this moment will not do.

    Hey, as soon as you wanna get rid of your LP let me know how much you want for your Zerostat. :cornut:
  • 11-17-2007, 03:12 AM
    basite
    hmm

    you could always try to find a vintage Mcintosh pre, since they all had good phono stages :)

    a c26 or c28 anyone??? :)

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
  • 11-17-2007, 05:55 AM
    Feanor
    1 Attachment(s)
    Nice thought
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by basite
    hmm

    you could always try to find a vintage Mcintosh pre, since they all had good phono stages :)

    a c26 or c28 anyone??? :)

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.

    Yep, I love McIntosh style and I'd love a C28 or C26. Unfortunately, (a) C28 ~ $600, C26 ~ $500, maybe a little less depending on the condition and luck, (b) they're pretty big units and I'm looking for something relatively compact at the moment.

    C28 ...
  • 11-17-2007, 07:59 AM
    herm0016
    phonopreamps.com has some decent offerings. i have the TCC-750 and am happy with it for the money.
  • 11-17-2007, 08:21 AM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dean_martin
    The Bellari VP-129 tubed phono preamp w/headphone amp, rumble filter (which I've never used, but some might find helpful) and volume control is a neat, good sounding unit.

    It's a decent sounding little unit. I use one in the vintage garage system with the Ariston/SME. Since I don't use a line stage/preamp, I find the gain control quite useful. Compact it is!

    http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/bellari.jpg

    rw
  • 11-17-2007, 08:30 AM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Yep, I love McIntosh style and I'd love a C28 or C26.

    Sound quality? No offense, but I strongly recommend listening to one before plunking down any money. Early Mac SS was rather insipid. One of the most disappointing systems I heard back in the 70s was a pair of in-wall mounted Bozaks driven by a C-28/2105 combo. The full wall light show (including the MPI-4 maximum performance indicator and a MR-74) was quite impressive, however, with all those green and blue lights aglow. :)

    rw
  • 11-17-2007, 08:35 AM
    dean_martin
    that's really COOL, E-Stat. I haven't tried mine directly to an amp yet. what amp and speakers are you using in your vintage system?
  • 11-17-2007, 08:40 AM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by basite
    you could always try to find a vintage Mcintosh pre, since they all had good phono stages :)

    You are returning to when I was 17. I don't want to be unkind, but those units were simply not as good as one could find back then. I had a better sounding Harman-Kardon Citation 11 at the time. I also had the opportunity to hear the benchmark of that day, the Audio Research SP-3a in my system. No comparison.

    rw
  • 11-17-2007, 08:57 AM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dean_martin
    that's really COOL, E-Stat.

    I originally bought the arm when I was 17 (like our younger member here) and put in on a Technics SL110. While the 110 was "cooler looking", I replaced it with the Ariston a year later. :)

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dean_martin
    I haven't tried mine directly to an amp yet. what amp and speakers are you using in your vintage system?

    Threshold Stasis 3 driving double New Advents. With only 30 db of gain available on the Bellari, I cannot fully drive the Stasis, but can still achieve the 80-85 db levels I prefer.

    A pic of the Advents is in my photo gallery. Since the amp is 26 years old, I recently replaced the Mallory caps (that's why I had the cover off). While still quite good today, it was a killer amp in 1981. I've always been a fan of Nelson Pass' work.

    http://home.cablelynx.com/~rhw/audio/stasis.jpg

    rw
  • 11-17-2007, 10:30 AM
    dean_martin
    COOL again! Speaking of Pass, one of these days I'm going to grab an Aleph 3, 30 or J. If I'm not fast enough on A-gon, I might have to shell out the cash for a new First Watt.
  • 11-17-2007, 10:47 AM
    Feanor
    Thanks!!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by herm0016
    phonopreamps.com has some decent offerings. i have the TCC-750 and am happy with it for the money.

    They are certainly appealing price-wise. :cornut:
  • 11-17-2007, 11:04 AM
    Feanor
    Yeah, I love the lights
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Sound quality? No offense, but I strongly recommend listening to one before plunking down any money. Early Mac SS was rather insipid. One of the most disappointing systems I heard back in the 70s was a pair of in-wall mounted Bozaks driven by a C-28/2105 combo. The full wall light show (including the MPI-4 maximum performance indicator and a MR-74) was quite impressive, however, with all those green and blue lights aglow. :)

    rw

    If I were to buy a Mac it wouldn't be with the expectation of top sound: much more for the cosmetics and the elite construction. Doubtless my Apt Holman had a phono than the Macs of the same era. And I could replace Apt a lot cheaper than buying a C26.
  • 11-17-2007, 04:48 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Just keep this as your homepage.

    http://buy0.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?preaphon&1&ctg&st1

    There is a creek for $99

    Best Luck,
  • 11-17-2007, 05:26 PM
    Feanor
    To bad, so sad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Just keep this as your homepage.

    http://buy0.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?preaphon&1&ctg&st1

    There is a creek for $99

    Best Luck,

    That warrants serious attention.

    An OBH-8 SE got away from me on eBay ...
    http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=020
    I bid $112; it sold for $113.50.
  • 11-17-2007, 06:20 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Hey Feanor,

    If you were to purchase a phono from US for $100, how much would it end up be after GST?
    I thought GST was only 6% but seems like there are other fee that Canadian consumers are charged with.

    Regards,
  • 11-22-2007, 08:11 AM
    Feanor
    1 Attachment(s)
    Outcome!!!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by herm0016
    phonopreamps.com has some decent offerings. i have the TCC-750 and am happy with it for the money.

    Thanks, guys, for all your recommendations. I have decided to go herm0016's suggestion: thanks to you in particular, Herm.

    This might be the cheapo solution, but it suits my limited needs and budget ...
    ...
  • 11-25-2007, 08:31 AM
    jt1stcav
    It may very well be affordable in price, but I doubt from the specs it's cheap! I'm curious how it'll sound with your setup...
  • 11-25-2007, 08:34 AM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jt1stcav
    It may very well be affordable in price, but I doubt from the specs it's cheap! I'm curious how it'll sound with your setup...

    Hey JT, you gotta PM
  • 11-25-2007, 06:17 PM
    Feanor
    What a scam
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Hey Feanor,

    If you were to purchase a phono from US for $100, how much would it end up be after GST?
    I thought GST was only 6% but seems like there are other fee that Canadian consumers are charged with.

    Regards,

    Well, GST isn't the end of it. I could pay duty, (??%), depending on the product and the country of origin, GST (6%), Ontario Provincial Sales Tax (8%), and -- here's the really sweet part -- brokerage. If sent by standard USPS, Canada Post will charge me $5 flat fee, (not too bad), or $8 if USPS expedited. The latter sucks because Canada Post doesn't "expedited" the shipment in any way, in my experience. There might be a minimum below which charges are waived, but it is very low: let's say <$20. In my experience, sometimes very small packages, (e.g. 1 or 2 CDs), sneek under Canada Post's radar regardless of value.

    However mimium I would typically pay on a $100 item would be $6+8+5 = $19.

    On the other hand, if the carrier is FedEx and you don't have a personal customs broker, (who has a personal customs broker?), FedEx Trade Networks, (their customs broker division), would charge something like $10-15 on a hundered dollar item. UPS charges slightly more than FedEx. And BTW, GST is charge on the brokerage -- in otherwise I'm being charged tax on service whose only purpose is collect tax. Now that's egregious. :mad5:

    I'll let you know what I actually paid in the case of the TCC preamp I ordered.
  • 11-25-2007, 06:22 PM
    Feanor
    We shall see
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jt1stcav
    It may very well be affordable in price, but I doubt from the specs it's cheap! I'm curious how it'll sound with your setup...

    Thanks for that comment, Jim,

    I'll let folks know my impressions.
  • 12-05-2007, 06:07 AM
    Feanor
    Arrived & working
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Thanks, guys, for all your recommendations. I have decided to go herm0016's suggestion: thanks to you in particular, Herm.


    This might be the cheapo solution, but it suits my limited needs and budget ......

    The TCC TC-750 arrived: total cost US$49.50, delivered. (Canada Post "forgot" to charge me taxes and brokerage -- somethings you get lucky on small packages.)

    The unit is installed and functional. I'm using Kimber PBJ cables to connect to the preamp rather than the enclosed <$5-class cables enclosed. The sound is OK so far a bit peaked in the upper-mid, a little less so after 2-3 hours of playing.

    Nobody will be surprised hear me say this isn't destined to be a great phono pre, but at least I can listen to my LPs once again. I will need to consider whether I want to look for something a bit better before I rip the LPs to digital, but anyway that can wait 'till after the Christmas bills are paid.
  • 12-23-2007, 12:56 PM
    Feanor
    Further update!!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    The TCC TC-750 arrived: total cost US$49.50, delivered. (Canada Post "forgot" to charge me taxes and brokerage -- somethings you get lucky on small packages.)

    The unit is installed and functional. I'm using Kimber PBJ cables to connect to the preamp rather than the enclosed <$5-class cables enclosed. The sound is OK so far a bit peaked in the upper-mid, a little less so after 2-3 hours of playing.

    ...

    The TC-750 after a few hours burn-in is sounding quite decent: very quiet, smooth, and quite detailed and airy. I'm quite prepared to recommend it to anyone who wants a dirt cheap preamp -- for the buck, you'll be amazed. :thumbsup:
  • 12-23-2007, 04:41 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Good on you, Bill.

    I hope you'll succesfully transfer your wax onto your HD.
  • 12-26-2007, 09:41 AM
    herm0016
    I am glad you are liking the little guy. i am away from my system for 10 days...i do kinda miss it.