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Recomend Cartidge?
I have a Music Hall MMF 2.1 that I got off ebay. I have been using it for a while but I feel I want to replace the cartidge now. Any recomendations under a 100 bucks?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
I have a Music Hall MMF 2.1 that I got off ebay. I have been using it for a while but I feel I want to replace the cartidge now. Any recomendations under a 100 bucks?
First what cartridge is on the table now? I forget what cartridge comes with that table but if it was the Ortofon OM5 the easiest thing would be getting an OM20 stylus. If it does not have the Ortofon the OM10 would be a good suggestion. Other suggestions would be the Grado Red, Audio Technica 440 ML or a Shure M97XE. If you do not have experience installing a cartridge I would try to find a local dealer that can sell and install the cartridge. The AT 440ML is a little tricky to set up because of the microline stylus. Anything else we can help you with let us know. Welcome.
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It came with a Goldring, and like I said, it came from ebay, so I don't know where it has been. I am not concerned with having anythign super hifi, I really just listen for fun. I listen to many styles of music, like rock, funk, jazz, etc. I guess I am more concerned with the stylus damaging the albums I have.
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As for me ...
I would vote for the Audio Technica AT440ML. That's what I just bought for my Denon DP 62L. I am very happy with the cartridge's amazing reproduction and trackability. A superlative performance that tracks the inner part of the groove bringing out such clarity in the higher frequency range. Mids are realistically smooth and natural. Bass is nice and full but not boomy or over-emphasized. It's really worth a lot more than its asking price regarding its performance. Check out its detailed description ...
http://www.lptunes.com/index.asp?Pag...ROD&ProdID=644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
I have a Music Hall MMF 2.1 that I got off ebay. I have been using it for a while but I feel I want to replace the cartidge now. Any recomendations under a 100 bucks?
The three I found to be a good deal are the AT440ml $89.95 , Stanton HI-FI 680 $69.95
and the Stanton 681EEEMKII $129.95 and if you dont have one a alignment protractor $1.00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockecat
The three I found to be a good deal are the AT440ml $89.95 , Stanton HI-FI 680 $69.95
and the Stanton 681EEEMKII $129.95 and if you dont have one a alignment protractor $1.00
I saw that stanton 681 eeemkii. What is the point of that brush that is attached?
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For cartridge information two good sources are www.needeldoctor.com and www.amusicdirect.com.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
I saw that stanton 681 eeemkii. What is the point of that brush that is attached?
That is the lazy guy brush for those of us that don't clean are vinyl real well. :eek:
Here is another great source and they are very good about returning E-mail.
http://garage-a-records.com/index.php
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
I saw that stanton 681 eeemkii. What is the point of that brush that is attached?
The brush helps to extend stylus life by cleaning dust/debris from the record groove prior to being tracked by the stylus and provide some damping when tracking warped records.
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Thats what I figured, I guess it is for people that don't clean their records. Right now, based on price and reviews, I am between the stanton 681, the grado red or the ortofon om 10 super. It would be nice to hear them first but such is life in the world of internet commerce.
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Compared to the Stanton, the Ortofon will give you a slightly leaner sound in the midrange, tighter bass, and a more extended high end. Generally speaking, Ortofon MM cartridges are more on the punchy side compared to comparable MMs from Stanton, Shure, Sumiko, and Grado. If you go with Ortofon, I would highly suggest that you go with the OM20 rather than the OM10 -- just a more detailed and well defined sound overall. J&R sells the OM20 for $130, and the OM10 for $70. IMO, the OM20 is worth the extra money because the cartridge defines the character of your vinyl playback and you'll live with it for at least two years before it's time for replacement. And if it's the same price as the Stanton 681, the Ortofon OM20 (and even the less expensive OM10) IMO is a better overall cartridge.
I've not listened to the Grado Red, but they are very well regarded for their full and neutral sound. The only drawback is that the Grados are susceptible to picking up hum and interference on certain tuntables (typically ones with unshielded motors). You might want to double check on other audio boards to see if your Music Hall turntable is one of the decks that has trouble with the Grados.
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Shure M97xE Cartridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
I have a Music Hall MMF 2.1 that I got off ebay. I have been using it for a while but I feel I want to replace the cartidge now. Any recomendations under a 100 bucks?
This is a very good cartridge for under 100.00
http://www.kabusa.com/GIF/M97.jpg
http://www.kabusa.com/shurenow.htm#cartridge
79.95
Description:
M97xE High Performance Very Low Mass/Very High Accuracy Elliptical 0.2 x 0.7 mil diamond tip Standard 1/2 inch mount.
Shure’s exclusive viscous-damped Dynamic Stabilizer, which maintains a uniform distance between the cartridge and the record under difficult playing conditions, such as those caused by warped records, or mismatched tonearm mass. When such stabilization is not required, the stabilizer brush can be locked up into its detent position, which, under ideal playing conditions, can provide even better sound quality.
A die cast aluminum mounting block for secure, vibration-free attachment to the tonearm.
The SIDE-GUARD stylus protection system that helps prevent stylus damage if the cartridge accidentally slides across a record. This unique feature responds to side thrusts on the stylus by withdrawing the entire stylus cantilever and tip safely into the stylus housing before the cantilever can be damaged.
Accessories Included:
* Headshell Screwdriver
* Stylus cleaning brushUser Guide
* Mounting hardware
* Stylus guard
KAB also has a good selection of Ortofon
http://www.kabusa.com/ortofon.htm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
Thats what I figured, I guess it is for people that don't clean their records.
Not necessarily. Even if you are meticulous about cleaning your records, it is impossible to keep them absolutely dust-free. While in use, record surfaces will attract some dust, no matter how small the amount. The brush (er, Dynamic Stabilizer) on the high-end Shure cartridges as described above by BrandonH, also perform a similar function.
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Well I ordered the stanton, we'll see how it is. Thanks for all your recomendations.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
Well I ordered the stanton, we'll see how it is. Thanks for all your recomendations.
Curious who did you decide to get it from?
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I have always ordered my stuff from needle doctor and have never had a problem.
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I think you'll like the Stanton - I'm running a new KAB mod'd Stanton on my deck and love it. It's FANTASTIC with Rock and Jazz.
Needle Doctor is good, but if you ever need advice on cartridges Kevin at www.kabusa.com is a freakin' genius!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
Well I ordered the stanton, we'll see how it is. Thanks for all your recomendations.
Which model did you buy?
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i got the Stanton 681EEEMKII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave
i got the Stanton 681EEEMKII
Here's a ton of info on the 681, sounds like it's a winner - didn't realize it's a Moving Iron cartridge like the Grados! I'd love to hear your thoughts on it once you've got it up and running.
http://www.kabusa.com/681eee.htm
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The Stanton "Longhair" Brush
I've posted much of this material on other sites, but thought you'd find it helpful. I worked for both PIckering and Stanton in my past, and am very familiar with the capabilities of either the Pickering "Dustamatic" Brush, or the Stanton "Longhair" brush.
While initially designed to help keep a record clean (the brush will never clean a dirty record), the company's engineers also realized that the brush (either the PIckering or Stanton version) effectively dampened low frequency resonance in the tonearm, did a terrific job of "dynamically stabilizing" the arm/cartridge combo to allow it to play warped records, and reduced static electricity charges by the rubbing action of the brush's bristles on the record's surface (they're too big to go down into the record's grooves) and shunting that charge to ground via the cartridge's connections. Unfortunately, neither Pickering nor Stanton did a particularly good job exploiting the virtues of the Brush, and made all of the above information available long after the rest of the industry chose to make the Brush a laughing matter.
Just remember: to properly track your Stanton 681EEE, you must first balance your tonearm (with the brush still attached to the cartridge) and then dial in a tracking force setting one gram higher than desired. For example, to track at 1 1/2 grams, you must set the tracking force for 2 1/2 grams. The brush assembly weighs one gram, and is self supporting, so it cancels out the additional force. Then, also, set the anti-skate for the same setting as that for tracking force, 2 1/2 grams in this instance.
Hope you like the cartrdige.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
I worked for both PIckering and Stanton in my past
emaidel - I'd be curious as to your thoughts on KAB's mating of the Pickering D4500S stylus (also called the D88S stylus) and the Stanton Groovemaster II cartridge body. It's, quite simply, one of the most amazing cartridges I've ever heard.
Do you happen to know in what cartridge the D4500S was originally installed and can you give me any information on it's geometry and cantilever? It's listed as a "Stereohedron™" fine-line tip and the cantilever is listed as "ultra low mass pentamet™", which I presume are Pickering terms as I've never heard them prior to finding this cartridge.
A link to additional information is below:
http://www.kabusa.com/gm2ae.htm
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I've seen that cartridge and can best describe it as a KLUGE, and I use caps intentionally. It is an odd mixture of a DJ cartridge (the Trackmaster or Groovemaster) and a partially-destroyed stylus assembly for something else.
The cartridge body used in the Stanton Trackmaster and Groovemaster DJ models originated as the Stanton "Epoch" in the mid 80's. The Epoch was an very good cartridge, and a moving magnet design (using the then "state-of-the-art" material, Samarium Cobalt), but a sales and marketing flop.
The D-4500 stylus was for the Pickering XUV-4500Q - a "Quadrahedron-tipped" model designed to playback CD-4 records (Quadradiscs) at a heretofore unheard of 1 gram (previous models tracked at as much as three times that). The Quadrahedron geometry was very similar, but not identical to, the Shibata design pioneered by AT As the 4500 was also a moving magnet design (the first in the company's history to use Samarium Cobalt for the magnetic material), it "worked" in the Trackmaster/Groovemaster bodies.
In the KLUGE model, much of the stylus assembly is exposed, and thereby exposed to potentially dangerous mishandling and corrosion of much of the materials used to manufacture the stylus assembly. Just as a matter of note: when the company introduced this assembly, it quickly obtained no less than 8 patents on it!
Another important note: both the Trackmaster and Groovemaster models are DJ models and are flat out AWFUL when used as "Hi-Fi" cartridges. Both were designed to merely plug into the tonearm of the Technics SL-1200 (the DJ's favorite table) without the need for screws and such. No consideration whatsoever was given to overhang, as it plays no part at all for the manner in which DJ's use turntables.
The KLUGE cartridge also allows for no such adjustment, and it's entirely likely that no matter what turntable it's installed in, the overhang will be off, and likely by a significant margin too.
To take a production stylus (the D-4500), destroy all the surrounding plastic material (the stylus "handle") and then stick the now-exposed innards into a DJ cartridge (!) and call it something else is just goofy, in my opinion.
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Goofy, kluge, maybe - but you should hear the damned thing... it doesn't sound like a Rube Goldberg Franken-cart!
I have no doubt that the Groovemaster II in its stock form is awful for use in a hi-fi system.
I had, prior to this, been running a Dynavector 20xL and a Dynavector 17d2 Karat on a Michell table. There's simply no comparison here - and, no, I'm not kidding - the KAB is impressive.
As for alignment and overhang - it's dead-on in relation to the Technics geometry (which pre-dates the tables DJ use - and is similar to Rega's). I can track every test record torture track I throw at it.
Honestly, I've never had a cartridge that sounds as good or tracks as good at any price.
E-mail me offline - I'll be happy to send you a CD-R of some jazz played back through it so you can hear it yourself.
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I should have the cartidge on friday and hopefully will be able to do some listening. I am just finishing my first dedicated two channel system, which as of now consists of my music hall 2.1, a marantz model 33 preamp and some self powered event monitors. Eventually I want to swap out the events to a nice set of speakers and a tube amp but as always. gotta save first. Speaking of the Music Hall, does anyone know where to get a PDF of the instruction manual? I got my table used on ebay and it did not come with one. I am unsure of the three notches on the anti skate weight and the corresponding weight.
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