Recomend Cartidge?

[BRANDONH]

I should have the cartidge on friday and hopefully will be able to do some listening. I am just finishing my first dedicated two channel system, which as of now consists of my music hall 2.1, a marantz model 33 preamp and some self powered event monitors. Eventually I want to swap out the events to a nice set of speakers and a tube amp but as always. gotta save first. Speaking of the Music Hall, does anyone know where to get a PDF of the instruction manual? I got my table used on ebay and it did not come with one. I am unsure of the three notches on the anti skate weight and the corresponding weight.

I think you could use a Pro-ject manual:
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/m...1xpression.pdf
I looked on the Music Hall Website but they did not have any manual downloads:
http://www.musichallaudio.com/

[slate1]

Here you go:

http://www.vinylengine.com/manuals_pro-ject.shtml

The Pro-Ject Debut is pretty much the same table as the 2.1 and there's also listed a specific manual for the Pro-Ject arms.

On the "9" arms it looks like (moving outwards)

Notch 1 = 1g-1.5g
Notch 2 = 1.5g-2g
Notch 3 = 2g+

[SoundGuyDave]

Yeah, Music Hall is pretty sketchy about that. I emailed them awhile ago and never heard back.

[slate1]

Just FYI - Pro-Ject does everything in mN instead of grams. Divide it by 10 and you'll have grams.

If I remember correctly - the counterweight has "15" on it instead of "1.5" for 1.5-grams too.

[emaidel]

I had, prior to this, been running a Dynavector 20xL and a Dynavector 17d2 Karat on a Michell table. There's simply no comparison here - and, no, I'm not kidding - the KAB is impressive.

As for alignment and overhang - it's dead-on in relation to the Technics geometry (which pre-dates the tables DJ use - and is similar to Rega's). I can track every test record torture track I throw at it.

.

I have no doubt your KAB cartridge sounds good: after all, it's a perfect mating of two inherently compatible designs, so why wouldn't it? Actually, if there were a Stereohedron-tipped Epoch model (and, I believe there was), what you have now is probably a plug-in version of that, and one that probably sounds quite similar. You can even stick a stylus for the lowly 500-AL into a Trackmaster, or Groovemaster body and have it work - it'll just look dumb.

I have two basic issues with the KAB item. For one, what he's done is butcher a stock stylus assembly by removing the plastic "handle." This handle serves two purposes: first, to keep the stylus aligned within the cartridge body, and second, to provide the user with something to hold onto while inserting a new, or removing an old stylus assembly. Here, the handle has been completely removed, and part of the inner tube (ALL of which is supposed to be completely within the cartridge body) has clearly been shredded to provide a fairly insubstantial anchor to keep the whole thing from falling into the cartridge body. Is it properly aligned, and will it stay this way? I hardly think so.


Next is that, while the Trackmaster and Groovemaster were in all likelihood designed for proper overhang on a Technics SL-1200, the postion of the stylus tip on this KAB is no where near where the original tip would be, and therefore the overhang is way off, with no way to adjust it. The fact that you can track stuff is not at measure of correct overhang.

The Stanton Epoch cartridge was resurrected by the current owners of Stanton as a Pickering "EP Hi-Fi" model, sold by The Needle Doctor. I suspect it has an elliptical stylus, though there's no mention of the exact configuration. Aside from being a translucent blue, as opposed to the original silver and black, this "EP Hi-Fi" is no different than an old Epoch model, and even though it doesn't have a Stereohedron tip, it's quite likely acoustically similar to that which you have.

Isn't it interesting the "tricks" people play in this business?

[SoundGuyDave]

I just got a copy of the manual from music hall. interesting.

[slate1]

has clearly been shredded to provide a fairly insubstantial anchor to keep the whole thing from falling into the cartridge body. Is it properly aligned, and will it stay this way? I hardly think so.

Next is that, while the Trackmaster and Groovemaster were in all likelihood designed for proper overhang on a Technics SL-1200, the postion of the stylus tip on this KAB is no where near where the original tip would be, and therefore the overhang is way off, with no way to adjust it. The fact that you can track stuff is not at measure of correct overhang.

Thanks for the response Emaidel - here are a couple of things worth noting...

First off, I have no idea how Kevin assembles these. I'm quite sure he'd be more than willing to fill you in if you e-mail him. He's a heck of nice fellow and loves talking about this stuff.

The stylus assembly is not simply pushed into the cartridge body - it's fixed somehow and is not user servicable - it can not be removed. I can't buy a new stylus from KAB and replace it myself - it has to be sent to KAB for that. It's not like it's just crammed up in there ready to come loose at any moment.

As for overhang - it marks dead-on with the overhang gauge I've got for the Technics, so I don't know what to say about that. I could be looking at it wrong.

The fact of the matter is that as long as it doesn't mistrack, imparts no distortion, AND plays beautiful music - what the hell more could I ask for?!?! The fact that it makes it through test-disc torture tracks only assures me that everything is "as it should be" no matter if it's technically correct or not!

It's been great talking with you about this - wish I could see a picture of the original stylus assembly for the 4500S so I could get a better idea of what your describing.

[slate1]

I just got a copy of the manual from music hall. interesting.

ahhhh - sweet irony.....

If I remember correctly - it's been a while since I've had an MMF table - the ProJect manuals have a LOT more detailed information in them.

Sorry to have kind of hi-jacked your thread here too with my ongoing discussion concerning the KAB cart...

[emaidel]

The stylus assembly it's fixed somehow and is not user servicable - it can not be removed. I can't buy a new stylus from KAB and replace it myself - it has to be sent to KAB for that.
As for overhang - it marks dead-on with the overhang gauge I've got for the Technics, so I don't know what to say about that. I could be looking at it wrong.



It's been great talking with you about this - wish I could see a picture of the original stylus assembly for the 4500S so I could get a better idea of what your describing.

ALL Pickering and Stanton styli were user replaceable. Clearly KAB, no matter how nice and friendly a guy, has done something he shouldn't have here.

Insofar as the overhang comments I made, I did so by drawing a hasty conclusion by looking at the photo of the cartridge. If it matches with your overhang adjustment, then I'm wrong and admit it.

If you want to see what the D-4500S stylus assembly was supposed to look like, just go to the KAB website and look at any of the replacement styli for the XV/15, XSV or XUV cartridges. They all have the same outward appearance, and that large, plastic housing on the front of all of them is what's been removed from the stylus assembly you have that's somehow been "permanently" stuffed into a Groovemaster body.

But in the end, it's whether or not you like it that counts, and since you do, then that should settle it.

And my sincere apologies to Sound Guy Dave for taking up so much real estate in his initial posting. My intention at the outset was just to advise him as to the proper settings for his new Stanton 681EEE cartridge. I hope he enjoyed this exchange of thoughts, even if they were at his expense.

[SoundGuyDave]

No harm no foul, I always enjoy learning as much as possible, I'll give a post when I get my new cartidge installed. I plan to break it in with my brand new copy of Wilco's "A Ghost is Born"

[hifitommy]

why mess around in the mid range and go for the good stuff. the 881s will cost you about $144 and worth every penny! its a standout cartridge and a bargain.

[bacchanal]

I am just finishing my first dedicated two channel system, which as of now consists of my music hall 2.1, a marantz model 33 preamp and some self powered event monitors.

Uh...in the spirit of thread-jacking...
What event monitors are you using and how do you like them? I'm currently looking for some monitors for my computer.

Looking at these...
Event ALP5
Samson R5a
Alesis M1 520
I may even step up to these if I can find a deal on them.

Oh and good luck with the new cart! I'm currently using a project 1.2 with a an OM20, much better than the low end cart I bought it with, a sumiko oyster I think. The oyster was kinda flat, but the OM20 has noticably better bass and midrange. Not sure exactly what accuracy is, when it comes to TT carts, but the OM20 is certainly fun to listen to. Anyway, you probably shouldn't listen to me because most of my vinyl is SubPop, K, CZ, SST type stuff...not exactly your typical "critical listening" type recordings.
I'm pretty sure the pro-jects don't go well with the Grados, but I haven't spent the $100 to find out.