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  1. #1
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    A turntable anthology

    As I'm about to turn 63 in 7 days, and I've spent a good portion of those years listening to audio systems, I thought I'd list the various turntables I've owned throughout my lifetime, along with a few comments on certain models. This is by no means the definitive "All You Wanted To Know About Turntables, But Was Afraid To Ask" opus, but just a pleasant stroll down memory lane that I hope AR members will find interesting, perhaps amusing, and even somewhat beneficial. That said, in as close to an accurate chronological order as memory serves, here goes:

    Garrard AT-6
    AR-XA
    TOTL Perpetuum Ebner model
    Garrard Zero-100
    Dual 1229Q
    BIC-980
    Pioneer PL-55X
    Technics SL-1200
    The Stanton Turntable
    Garrard GT-55
    Dual 721
    A straight arm Kenwood with rosewood base (don't remember model number)
    ONKYO CP-1280F
    Denon DP-62L
    A reconditioned, and very slightly modified Dual 721
    And, lastly, the Dual CS-5000.

    The clunkers in the group?

    Certainly the Garrard AT-6 - the very loud rumble made listening to some records a very unpleasant experience, and the 33&1/3 speed was anything but.

    Next, the PE unit. It was the first automatic turntable with an adjustable VTA, but the adjustment knob protruding from the front of a large, heavy headshell, made the unit look awful, and the 23-seconds it took from first starting up the turntable, until the headshell finally landed on the record itself was all but interminable.

    The Zero-100. The highly touted articulated tonearm, the unit's claim to fame, became its chief nemesis. It was so massive that it destroyed many a cantilever of good, high-compliance cartridges (particularly the fine ADC XLM), and unless fitted with a brush-equipped Pickering or Stanton cartridge, was virtually useless in playing warped records. And, typical of Garrard units of the day, the jerky tonearm motion was certainly off-putting, and the stiff, vertical cueing levers were all but impossible to use without causing the arm to jump.

    The Stanton Turntable (sold in Europe as the Pickering Turntable). Other than the fine 681-EEE cartridge that came with it, this turntable absolutely nothing going for it. It was probably the only product in the history of turntables with a 110% defective rate. That meant that not only did all the units fail, an additional 10% of those returned and repaired, failed yet again. Walter Stanton was truly sold a bill of goods by the individual responsible for bringing this turntable about (Stanton didn't manufacture it, someone else did, but I don't know who). I was given one for free, and had a helluva time finding somone to take it off my hands!

    The PIoneer PL-55X. A decent sounding, attractive turntable with the world's worst cueing mechanism. Even Pioneer told me that the fault was in the design, and couldn't be fixed. I all but threw it out the window.

    The Garrard GT-55. This was Garrard's futile attempt at continuing to make a turntable with an articulated arm, but without all the failings of the Zero-100. While it was a far better machine, and even a belt drive one at that, it was chintzy and ugly, and didn't sound any better than plenty of other less expensive tables at the time. Garrard's Sales Manager gave me one for free, and after using it for a few minutes, I packed it up and gave it back to him.

    Now for the standouts.

    Certainly, the AR turntable. At a retail price of only $68, this turntable was nothing less than remarkable back in '64. A deadly accurate stylus pressure guage came with it (which I still have, and use to this day), and all screw adjustments for adjusting the counterweight, installing the cartridge, and adjusting the overhang (with the supplied overhang guage) were done with a single screwdriver, also supplied. One of the industry's genuine legends.

    The BIC-980. The first belt-driven automatic turntable. 'nuff said.

    The Technics SL-1200. A rock-solid piece of superb engineering and meticulously detailed manufacuring. I sold mine to my brother decades ago, and it still works perfectly.

    And finally, the CS-5000. I recently "won" this turntable on Ebay. I knew this was a "good" turntable, but had no idea just how "good" it was until I hooked it up and started listening. I'd never given much credence to the audiophile belief that belt-drive is "better" than direct-drive, but if the 5000 is any example, there's a lot of evidence to back up that belief. The sound from this baby is as if I've lifted a veil off the front of my speakers, and I really am hearing things I've never heard before, even from records I've been playing for over 30 years!

    The chief complaint I've heard against direct drive vs. belt is that direct drive tables rob systems of bass. I never believed that before, but now see why this criticism was leveled: while I don't necessarily get more bass out of the CS-5000, there's a very definite improvement in the tonality of bass notes, and in the depth of others, particularly those chest-pounding sounds from pipe organs and synthesizers.

    In sum, the CS-5000 is the best-sounding turntable I've ever owned. Does that mean it's the best sounding turntable available? Of course not. I can't compare it to a modern Rega or MM or Project table, and wouldn't think of trying to compare it to the stratospherically priced ClearAudio models. But, for $299.95, including a perfectly functioning Shure V/15 Type V Mxr (which I don't use anyway), it was the best value I ever encountered in turntables in my (almost) 63 years on the planet.

    Now that I'm using an "almost-audiophile" belt-driven turntable, I'm looking forward to that next step, but that's going to be a fairly sizeable investment, and it'll have to wait for a while.

    Hope you all found this worth reading. It sure was fun typing it!

  2. #2
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    You deserve a coffee break after this post. AAA+++
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  3. #3
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    yeah it was fun reading it

    Thanks alot for sharing...

    any ideas of what tt would be 'that next step'?

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=

    any ideas of what tt would be 'that next step'?

    .[/QUOTE]

    Not really, but it will certainly be one of the many high priced belt drive units sold by The Needle Doctor, along with a decent, but not too outrageously expensive, moving coil cartridge and an associated head amp. I figure when I'm ready, that'll cost me at least $3,000, and I'm just not ready to do that now. It also had better be a whole lot better than the sound I'm currently getting from the CS-5000 at 1/10th the price!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    You deserve a coffee break after this post. AAA+++

    Thank You!

  6. #6
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    Not really, but it will certainly be one of the many high priced belt drive units sold by The Needle Doctor, along with a decent, but not too outrageously expensive, moving coil cartridge and an associated head amp. I figure when I'm ready, that'll cost me at least $3,000, and I'm just not ready to do that now. It also had better be a whole lot better than the sound I'm currently getting from the CS-5000 at 1/10th the price!
    It certainly wil be. With TTs more than in any other link in the replay chain does cost equates quality.
    You will be surprised.
    And thank you for sharing that little trip down memory lane. I find reading about peoples past experiences very satisfying. You do indeed deserve a cup of mud after that write up.
    And may I be the first to wish you a happy 63rd.

    Peace

    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  7. #7
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    yeah, happy 63th birthday
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I also wanted to wish you a Happy Birthday! I enjoyed your turntable memories.

    I remember as a young college student walking past an audio store and looking at the Garrard with the zero tracking error arm and thought that is what I wanted. I never had the opportunity and my first real ttable was a white marble based Kenwood. The belt drive model not the direct drive table. After that on to a JVC direct drive with a manual s shaped arm. Tried a Grado in that arm and you should have seen that cartridge do the Grado shimmy. After that on to a Dual. What caught my eye next was a Bang & Olufsen RX2 fully automatic table. Then on to a Thorens TD290 which was no longer made by Thorens but in the Pro-Ject factory. This was my most troublesome table. My next and so far last is my Rega Planar 2. I am not sure if I can still call it a Rega since I have rewired the arm, replaced the stock counterweight, changed from the original subplatter to a machined subplatter, gave it new feet and exchanged the felt mat for the Ringmat platter mat.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
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    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  9. #9
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Sorry, what I meant by "You deserve a coffee break after this post." was have a great Birthday emaidel. LOL
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  10. #10
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    Thanks to everyone wishing me a Happy Birthday and a coffee break, though it's now 7:35 PM, and I don't dare drink the stuff after 2:00 in the afternoon, or I'll be up all night!

    I've worked for a good number of companies in this industry (Lafayette, PIckering, ESS, ONKYO, BSR (when they owned ADC and dbx) and Stanton, and while I have a good deal of (hopefully) useful information stored in my craggy brain, I haven't a clue when I read threads about a lot of the newer stuff on the market, and just read those threads with a great deal of interest and envy. I can probably answer any question anyone could ever ask about either PIckering or Stanton; provide "juicy gossip" about ESS and their shenanigans; talk about how "honor" and "business" have no correlation whatsoever in a Japanese audio company; and also describe how a company that sold to big-box discounters (BSR) had no business whatsoever purchasing a company with engineers allowed to do whatever they wanted (dbx). But ask me about the newer high-end audio amps, preamps and turntables and my brain just freezes.

    And, so, I read and learn...

  11. #11
    Forum Regular Corto Maltese's Avatar
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    Thanks for the good read, and happy birthday. Sorry that I'm late, but I read and post when I can...
    I do appreciate personal and honest reviews that I find here, and your "walk down memory lane" is one of them. But your remark about "honor" and "business" intrigued me so much that I have to ask you to tell us bit more about your experiences. I would not call that "juicy gossip" - I am all ears when somebody talks about their own experience within the industry. I could share my NVH testing experiences within the automotive industry, but I doubt anyone would be interested about that...

  12. #12
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    Just check my thread, "Dirty Little Secrets," and you'll find a whole buncha stuff!

  13. #13
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Along those lines...

    Here's a list of the turntables that have either graced or cursed my domicile over the years, starting around 1962.

    A cheapo, grey BSR turntable I picked up from a local highway store with an Astatic crystal turnover cartridge for $13 or so. It was my first, obviously, and was put into an old Magnavox console I sort of refurbished. My first "hi fi" and, as you might surmise, it sucked.

    Garrard AT-60 a few years later. Lowest cost TT with a counterbalanced arm instead of a spring. It was the best turntable I ever had and serves it's function quite well throughout high school and while I was in the AF. Of course, while in the AF it didn't get a heckuva lot of use.

    Got out of AF and picked up a used Miracord50H MKII. considering it was an "old school" automatic turntable (with all the funky clunks that entails) it was fairly refined performer and it looked schweet. That black/chrome thingie really looked great.. The arm was a bit massive and, as I found out, wasn't the perfect match for the ADC WLM cartridge I bought.

    This served quite well until around 1980 when my first (and only other) wife, in a fit of rage, played Godzilla to the Miracord's Tokyo.

    I still miss this klunky bugger. It was part of my life for several happy go lucky years

    This was promptly replaced with a Philips AF-887, a fairly plain belt drive turntable with an electronically governed motor system. Plain as a bowl of vanilla ice cream in a paper bowl, but works great even today where it's still in use in the gym/office/mancave. It's still quietas a mouse and the speed is still right on.

    The only problem is that the dust cover is cracked and super-glued back to one piece, thanks to my previously mentioned first wife.

    After getting divorced, I picked up a (belt drive) NAD 533, which is a re-badged Rega Planar 2 but with a MDF platter instead of glass. Again, plain and simple as a rock. It's a belt drive with virtually NO amenities (you have to remove the platter to change from 33 to 45 and back) but it works great. It's in the main system for now. It's a bit prone to hum if used with poorly shielded (did someone say Grado?) cartridges, though.

    But, recently, at a garage sale I found another Miracord 50 H (no MKII, though) in good to excellent shape. I still need to locate the short manual spindle (I do have the automatic "umbrella" spindle) and the metal trim "hub cap" that goes on the platter around the spindle but other than that it's cosmetically and functionally perfect. The mechanics work but there's a bit of mechanical noise that I'm trying to sort out.

    Once that's wotked out, that, with my Marantz 2270 and JBL L-26's, I'll be back in the early 70's again and can then talk down about anything made since then, like someone else here.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    My previous and first table (I'm a newbie to analogue compared to you Emaidel) was the Mission 775SM with an Alphason HR100S and Stanton 881E. While not in the same performance league as my present table the Musical Fidelity M1, it was a darned excellent sound. I was a dummy to sell it.

    This is a picture of the Musical Fidelity M1
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  15. #15
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    That's a glorious looking turntable. May I ask how much it, the arm, cartrdige and head amp wound up costing you?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    picked up a used Miracord50H MKII. considering it was an "old school" automatic turntable (with all the funky clunks that entails) it was fairly refined performer and it looked schweet. That black/chrome thingie really looked great.. The arm was a bit massive and, as I found out, wasn't the perfect match for the ADC WLM cartridge I bought.
    First, I suspect you meant to say, "ADC XLM," as opposed to "WLM," and you 're absolutely right: the arm was far too massive for that cartridge (as was the tangential arm on the Garrard Zero-100.)

    When I first started selling audio equipment at Lafayette Radio in 1966, I quickly came to accept that the best automatic turntable we sold at the time was the Miracord 50H. The TOTL Garrard (the infamous "LAB-80") sold for $99.95, the Dual 1019 for $129, and the Miracord topped out at an "expensive" $150.

    Memories, memories, memories....

  17. #17
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    First, I suspect you meant to say, "ADC XLM," as opposed to "WLM," and you 're absolutely right: the arm was far too massive for that cartridge (as was the tangential arm on the Garrard Zero-100.)
    Correct. Good catch. I almost went for the later "VLM" which was supposed to be more forgiving ofthese things but decided to shy away from ADC for this TT.

    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    When I first started selling audio equipment at Lafayette Radio in 1966, I quickly came to accept that the best automatic turntable we sold at the time was the Miracord 50H. The TOTL Garrard (the infamous "LAB-80") sold for $99.95, the Dual 1019 for $129, and the Miracord topped out at an "expensive" $150.

    Memories, memories, memories....
    Interesting... My first job was a salsman in EJ Korvette's audio room in 1967. That was shortly followed by an offer to manage a Tandy audio concession in a local Bambergers/Macys that sold a full line of equipment from various manufacturers, including what remained of the Allied line, which they just absorbed.

    That lasted until I went into the service in .68.

    When I came out in '72, they were gone, only to be replaced by the newly opened Radio Shack stores which did not interest me at the time. They did come handy several times later in my life while going to various schools.

  18. #18
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    We have an awful lot in common, Mark. I'm 63 and grew up on Long Island. I suspect you're a few years younger, but grew up there too.

    Insofar as the ADC XLM was concerned, it was a truly outstanding cartridge with a list price of only $50 at the time. I thought it sounded absolutely wonderful, but just wouldn't stay on the record in the Zero-100 I owned at the time. Replacing that clunker of a turntable with a Dual 1229Q solved that problem, as the XLM worked just fine in it, and sounded better than ever. Suddenly, the concept of "low mass, straight" tonarms made lots of sense.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    Happy Birthday Emaidel - Remember life begins at 64, then we can sing you the Beatles song. If you start eating a large tub of plain lowfat organic yogurt every day (the local Persian store will have Karoun or Abali which tastes very good), and walk vigerously for an hour and do 4 sets of 10 push-ups, 4 sets of 10 squats, and stretch for 10 minutes every morning when you wake up, you'll probably live to be over 100. Plain Yogurt (no added sugar) is packed with protein, calcium and live cultures which are great for a man's system. The key is to maintain a degree of muscle mass and a decent testosterone level. Regarding push-ups, if you can't manage right away, then start with supporting your lower body on your knees rather than your toes. Push-ups and squats stimulate growth hormone and testosterone and counteract depleting levels as we age. When you've done, take a hot shower, which also stimulates growth hormone and testosterone.

    With the arm and phono cable my M1 was around $7k new, but I got this one two years ago; it was barely used and being sold by a guy I know who was in need of fast money, so I paid him $4,500. I have a Dynavector Karat 17D2 cartridge on there, one of if not the best value/performance MC cartridges out there. At $875 this cartridge embarrasses several stupid-expensive ones. The sound of the M1 table is magnificent; open, airy, detailed, with great pace, dynamics, and 3-dimensional well-defined images. Its got plenty of weight in the fundamentals, although I've heard weightier tables, but they're a lot more expensive. Its my phonostage though that takes the cake. Its an MFA MC Reference prototype, one of three built. I was extremely lucky to get it. When I put on an original record I picked up for 50 cents - Mose Allison live at the Lighthouse in Hermosa Beach - made in the 60s - I am there.

    I have a very good friend with a system comprised mainly of vintage gear - the really good stuff. He has a highly modified Dual and Garrard 401, both of which sound very good.
    Last edited by O'Shag; 01-31-2008 at 12:03 PM.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    Emaid,

    Ya don't need to hear about push-ups from me! I've just read in one of your posts that your an x-serviceman. But the yogurt bit is true.

  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=O'Shag] If you start eating a large tub of plain lowfat organic yogurt every day QUOTE]


    Yecchhh!

  22. #22
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    I thought I'd list the various turntables I've owned throughout my lifetime, along with a few comments on certain models.
    Cool list. I've had fewer turntables in the space of thirty odd years I've been in this hobby, but I experimented a lot with different arms and cartridges. Since I'm a visual kind of guy, I put some pics in my gallery of these. The earliest ones are stock photos I mined from the 'net.

    1970 - Garrard 40B changer that came with an all-in-one Electrophonic system. Had a ceramic cartridge. Later shoehorned in a Shure M44 using a Lafayette phono preamp. As in carefully filing down the cartridge body to fit in the arm not designed for this purpose.

    1972 - Lenco L75 with Shure M91ED. Nice full sized Swiss turntable that continues to have a following even today.

    1974 - Technics SL-110 direct drive turntable and SME 3009 Type II Improved with Shure V15 III. I had always lusted after one of those arms and the table was waaay cool looking back then. Basite, if you're looking, this is what I used at your age.

    1975 - Ariston RD-11s belt drive turntable using the same SME arm. The Ariston is the immediate forerunner to the Linn Sondek LP-12 with similar lineage. Added a DIY fluid damping tray and replaced the Shure first with an Ortofon M15E and later, an SL15 with an Ortofon SUT. Bought VPI HW-1 isolation platform that I use to this day.

    1977 - Replaced SME arm with Transcriptors Vestigal (often incorrectly referred to as the Vestigial) arm and Sonus Blue cartridge. The Sonus was Peter Pritchard's evolution of the XLM/ZLM series. The Vestigal was the ideal arm for those high compliance cartridges. It could track any warp. The arm tube only moved in the lateral plane. The headshell and the counterweight (attached via a string) moved in the vertical plane. Note the Stanton cartridge.

    1981 - Replaced Vestigal arm with Grace 747 unipivot. Used Grace F9E, Denon 103, Accuphase AC-2, and Shinon Red cartridges. Unusual arm construction with a wooden arm tube.

    1984 - Replaced 747 with Souther TQ-1 linear arm. Imagine a linear tracking Vestigal. Pain in the butt to set up, but wonderful arm. The arm itself is a small tube attached to a trolley that glides across rollers. While Lou Souther died a while back, he sold the rights to the arm to the German firm Clearaudio where the arm continues to be produced. It was also the basis for the ultimate evolution of that design, the Master Reference. I heard one at a reviewer's house. You won't confuse this pic with any other!

    2005 - Long pause before buying VPI Scout turntable. Moved TQ-1 to it where it remains today in primary service. Completed evolution from British table/arm combo to American. Replaced Shinon with Dynavector DV-20XL

    2006 - Restored Ariston to original glory by buying another SME 3009 from a doctor in the UK and use a Shure M97E with it. In use today with my vintage system. What's amazing is that this table soldiers on thirty years later. The bulb in the power switch died a while back, I replaced the power cord, and I'm now only on my second belt. Which itself is an ususual square cross section design. Also, I need to use metal polish on the platter as the aluminum tends to oxidize. And I've needed to oil the motor now and again.

    rw

  23. #23
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    That's a much more impressive list than mind, incorporating as it does primarily high-end models, aside from the crummy Garrard 40B.

  24. #24
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Cool list. I've had fewer turntables in the space of thirty odd years I've been in this hobby, but I experimented a lot with different arms and cartridges. Since I'm a visual kind of guy, I put some pics in my gallery of these. The earliest ones are stock photos I mined from the 'net.

    which, IMO, also is a fine list

    I'm a big fan of VPI turntables...


    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  25. #25
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    That's a much more impressive list than mind, incorporating as it does primarily high-end models, aside from the crummy Garrard 40B.
    Thanks, but I doubt there's much difference in our passion. In fact, I bought a few used records the other day. One was Rubenstein playing Rachmaninov and Liszt at Chicago with Fritz Reiner and E. Power Biggs playing a number of pieces at the Philadelphia with Ormandy. $.75 each!

    rw

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