Outboard Phono preamp or Built in?

Here is my situation. I want to be able to listen to vinyl again. My "preamp" right now is an old Lexicon CP-3, with no phono input.

I am going to do one of two things, buy a decent used preamp or a nice phono preamp, to run it into my Lexicon.

Right now I'm looking at a preamp who's phono section specs are as listed:

Input impredance( R and C):
MM/MC 47Kohms + 200 pF

Input sensitivity:
ref. 0.5V 1.5mV

Signal/Noise ratio (A-weighted with cartridge connected):
MM 78 dB ref. 0.5mV
MC 76 dB ref. 0.5mV

THD (20Hz-20kHz) and IM dist.:
<0.02%

RIAA response accuracy:
+ or - 0.5dB 20Hz-20kHz
+ or - 0.5dB 50Hz-20kHz (I dont know why they have this on top of the other one??)
- 0.5dB at 20Hz



It is either that, or another preamp(a Rotel I dont have the specs on), or an outboard phono preamp...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vr6ofpain

Here is my situation. I want to be able to listen to vinyl again. My "preamp" right now is an old Lexicon CP-3, with no phono input.

I am going to do one of two things, buy a decent used preamp or a nice phono preamp, to run it into my Lexicon.

Right now I'm looking at a preamp who's phono section specs are as listed:

Input impredance( R and C):
MM/MC 47Kohms + 200 pF

Input sensitivity:
ref. 0.5V 1.5mV

Signal/Noise ratio (A-weighted with cartridge connected):
MM 78 dB ref. 0.5mV
MC 76 dB ref. 0.5mV

THD (20Hz-20kHz) and IM dist.:
<0.02%

RIAA response accuracy:
+ or - 0.5dB 20Hz-20kHz
+ or - 0.5dB 50Hz-20kHz (I dont know why they have this on top of the other one??)
- 0.5dB at 20Hz



It is either that, or another preamp(a Rotel I dont have the specs on), or an outboard phono preamp...

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Your post raised an issue with me. I've been considering upgrading my preamp. It has an onboard phono section and is a solid state component. In researching preamps w/phono it seems that tube preamps like the Audible Illusions Modulus, Conrad-Johnson PV-__, ARC SP-__ and some older Cary units are generally considered to have good phono sections. I haven't read much praise for phono sections in solid state preamps. Anyone have any suggestions?

My Parasound PHP-850 (along with an Acurus A100 power amp) replaced an old NAD receiver. I'm not convinced that the Parasound's phono section is any better than the NAD's.

hopefully someone will post something, I out of my league with vinyl. I really dont know what is good with specs or equipment related to vinyl(I used to think it was garbage when I was younger, though I recently listened to a brand new record on my player and was quite surprised by the sound). Good, not particularly better than a CD(to my ears), but definately not worse. Different...I guess, and I liked it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vr6ofpain

hopefully someone will post something, I out of my league with vinyl. I really dont know what is good with specs or equipment related to vinyl(I used to think it was garbage when I was younger, though I recently listened to a brand new record on my player and was quite surprised by the sound). Good, not particularly better than a CD(to my ears), but definately not worse. Different...I guess, and I liked it.

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Have you got a particular budget? I use a hybrid SS / tube Audio Research SP-9 MKIII. It is a high gain low noise unit that combines FETs and triodes for both phono and line sections. I find it does a very nice job for the price.

Specs with phono sections as with most all components are virtually useless in determining musical quality.

rw

Yes I am on a budget. For an outboard phono preamp, I would consider spending up to about $50($48 shipped) on say this unit:
http://www.audioreplay.net/tc750pp.html

http://www.audioreplay.net/images/Tc-750rear.jpg

as far as a preamp with a built in phono, maybe upwards of $100, but keep in mind I'm going used here. I have seen some nice Rotel, NAD, and a few other brand's examples on ebay lately. Considering some of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vr6ofpain

as far as a preamp with a built in phono, maybe upwards of $100, but keep in mind I'm going used here. I have seen some nice Rotel, NAD, and a few other brand's examples on ebay lately. Considering some of them.

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Check www.audiogon.com too.

Some posts on the amps/preamps board a while back generally praised Rotel for their power amps, but seemed to be less impressed with their preamps. I know the preamp section in my old NAD receiver is pretty good. It's quiet. I gave it to my son and the amp section finally died, but he's still using it as a tuner w/an integrated. I used to get some sweet sounds from it with a Dual turntable and original Dual cartridge made by Ortofon. Though not as easy to find, B&K made a stereo preamp with phono that is still highly regarded. They made a consumer version and a pro version which were basically the same. I don't know if you can get either of them for $100.

For used preamps at that price point you might start with brands like NAD, Adcom, Rotel, B&K and maybe even Nakamichi, Nikko, Proton, AMC, Parasound, Yamaha and Harman/Kardon on ebay then do a little research and see if you can find some reviews or other info on the models available. Some of these manufacturers (like Rotel and Yamaha) have archives with info on their older models at their websites.

I'm not familiar enough with outboard phono preamps to offer any suggestions, but I would be interested in what you decide on if you go that route.

For $50 your choices are pretty limited. I'll chip in with a suggestion for not much more. I haven't ordered from this place before, but I use a QED discsaver that I'm quite happy with and you can oprder one here for $63.

<A href="http://www.a4audio.com/a4audio/cd-detail.asp?CatalogID=1227&Group=ByBrand&SGroup=QED ">Discsaver</a>

I'll also mention I've used an Adcom pre-amp for a while now quite happily, allthough mine doesn't have a phono stage. But, I've seen some of their tuner/pre-amp combos around your price range with a phono stage. The older ones are the ones with the phono stages I believe.

My guess would be that you may be better off goiung the pre-amp with a phono stage route rather than grabbing a $50 phono stage if for no other reason than if you're going bargin basement on the phono stage, you may as well at least get one that's integrated and save some space and have one less box to deal with.

Whatever you do, good luck and don't get intimidated by playing records. People did it for years without any special knowledge..it's no big deal. Have you grabbed your table yet?

NAD PP-1 discontinued was $100

NAD PP-2 now $100 and well worth it

Parasound phono preamps are dry and lifeless compared to the NAD (even a very old NAD)

New phono preamps for under $100 are not good (Pyle, Recoton and the like)

If you're happy with using the Lexicon, I would just add a phono stage. If you're itching to buy a pre-amp anyway, do that.

I've owned one of the pre-amps you showed in the pic. Believe it or not folks, it sounds great. Have recommended to others on a tight budget. The design + specs are similar (outboard power supply, + - .5dB RIAA, low noise) to some of the more expensive budget phono stages. There are exceptions to the rules. I upgraded to a Rotel RQ-970BX and the difference is very slight. The old one actually had a little more gain which was nice for recording to CD. Think this phono stage will equal or better a built-in phono stage on an inexpensive solid state preamp or receiver.

for the same price as a budget level outboard phno preamp...........look into a vintage scott tube integrated amp..........beautiful phono section..........of course that might include redesigning your system in terms of speaker efficiency......im a vinyl nut and thats the cheapest/best way to go

ps.............all this discussion on phono preamps is moot .........unless you have a decent table cartridge combo....which is another whole area

to moving magnet when for five more dollars, the next model up handles mc and has a better mm s/n ratio? its the tcc760 and i would be going for that rather than the tcc750 shown here.

also, specs are numbers on paper, sound is what matters. for this amount of money though, theres not much risk and you just might stumble on a nice sounding unit for cheeeeep. let us know how it sounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vr6ofpain

Yes I am on a budget. For an outboard phono preamp, I would consider spending up to about $50($48 shipped) on say this unit:
http://www.audioreplay.net/tc750pp.html

http://www.audioreplay.net/images/Tc-750rear.jpg

as far as a preamp with a built in phono, maybe upwards of $100, but keep in mind I'm going used here. I have seen some nice Rotel, NAD, and a few other brand's examples on ebay lately. Considering some of them.

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Just recommended the other one because I've actually heard it. Probably sounds the same though. The one I had actually had discrete transistors as opposed to ICs inside. Too bad I sold it, or I would post a pic of the insides. Could probably upgrade the capacitors and have a REALLY nice preamp for cheap.