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Originally Posted by 02audionoob
Getting a turntable with a tonearm is one thing, but with a cartridge is another. Turntables have their own sound, so you'll need to make decisions on whether you like Music Hall, Pro-Ject, Rega and the like or maybe Clearaudio, VPI and such. There's different styles. There's the same decisions to be made for cartridges and there's decisions about technical issues, like output voltage, stylus shape, etc. Now if you buy a turntable with the cartridge, it seems like it might be harder to get just the right combination.
So do you know what sound these TT's have? Is one warmer than the other?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
So do you know what sound these TT's have? Is one warmer than the other?
Music Hall, Pro-Ject and Rega turntables would lean to the warmer side, as compared to VPI and Clearaudio. There are various models among all of these that get good reviews. Pro-Ject produces turntables for Music Hall, so there will be noticeable similarities. Music Hall's upgrade path is limited. With Rega, there are some good tweaks on the market.
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Noob, I don't know if I agree. The choice of cartridges makes a very big difference as well. And what if one where to mount a Clearaudio cart on a MH TT?
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Originally Posted by nightflier
Noob, I don't know if I agree. The choice of cartridges makes a very big difference as well. And what if one where to mount a Clearaudio cart on a MH TT?
I'm just speaking in generalities. You will more often hear an "analytical" comment about a Clearaudio than a Rega. No question the choice of cartridge makes a difference.
Edit:
I feel like clarifying...the issue certainly goes deeper than which one is warmer. I think in some ways Nightflier is right that you can't call one warmer. It's a bit of an oversimplification.
It is common to hear Rega fans comment on the British term PRaT or, to use less esoteric terms, call it more musical. Clearaudio is less known for timing and musicality and more known for greater transparency, greater dynamics and blacker background.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
So do you know what sound these TT's have? Is one warmer than the other?
You considering an MMF frenchy?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02audionoob
Music Hall, Pro-Ject and Rega turntables would lean to the warmer side, as compared to VPI and Clearaudio. There are various models among all of these that get good reviews. Pro-Ject produces turntables for Music Hall, so there will be noticeable similarities. Music Hall's upgrade path is limited. With Rega, there are some good tweaks on the market.
What makes the upgrade path limited? I've noticed that JohnMichael has tweaked his TT out and its seems he can change parts as he wills. Is this not possible with Music Hall and why not?
frenchmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppachubby
You considering an MMF frenchy?
Yeah...I love the way they look. But I did get a chance to see Mr.Peabodys Rega P3 and its a looker as well.Do you have a Music Hall pappa-C ?
frenchmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
What makes the upgrade path limited? I've noticed that JohnMichael has tweaked his TT out and its seems he can change parts as he wills. Is this not possible with Music Hall and why not?
frenchmon
It's just a matter of availability. Those tweaks are mostly specifically designed for use on a Rega, like this stuff... http://groovetracer.com/ . I suppose you could put a better arm on the Music Hall, too...same as you can on a Rega. For other upgrade parts, I don't know where to find any designed for the Music Hall.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Yeah...I love the way they look. But I did get a chance to see Mr.Peabodys Rega P3 and its a looker as well.Do you have a Music Hall pappa-C ?
frenchmon
No, I don't. If you check the OP on this thread, you'll see it's me. I started it for the simple reason of drooling over it one day. 02audionoob owns an MMF 5, he almost sold me his. There was a posting on Audiogon recently, the guy was selling his MMF 5.1 and stage for only $200!!!! Crazy right?!? He wrote that he tried out vinyl and didn't like it. More cash than brains I guess.
I don't have the cash right now for a TT upgrade, but if I did, I would spend my cash here:
http://www.audioclassics.com/detail....l=MMF5&nav=cat
Great deal. You can email them for a photo, I can bet you it's in great shape.
I have some things to do before a TT upgrade. 1) get my Golden Tube into golden shape. 2) buy or make some speakers, which is proving to be alot of mind boggling work.
My crown jewel right now is my HK T35C. It's a poor mans Rega. BTW, check your private message box.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3561/...16e3a4340a.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicAdam
The only vinyl I'm proud of owning at this point is My Bloody Valentine 'Loveless'.
Great album! I listened to it Saturday night.
Does anyone think it's worth it to move up to a table in the Pro-Ject or Music Hall line that has the Pro-Ject carbon fibre arm? The RM-5SE has the carbon fibre arm and supposedly excellent wiring from a well-known cable maker. The latest version of the Xpression has the carbon fibre arm also but I'm not sure if it has the upgraded wiring. To get the carbon fiber arm on a Music Hall, I think you have to move up to the 7.1. The 5.1SE is a nice looking table but I think it comes with the aluminum arm.
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I've been looking at that Pro-ject RM-5SE and the MH 7.1 and 5.1SE. I think that the Pro-ject is a nice compromise between the two and that the carbon fiber tone arm is the deal maker.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dean_martin
Does anyone think it's worth it to move up to a table in the Pro-Ject or Music Hall line that has the Pro-Ject carbon fibre arm?
Yep, that arm is notorious. Once you have it, you could re-wire it into another table too, if your path took you that route.
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The MMF 22 is getting slammed as the step child of the product line, however it has been appropriately upgraded over the 2.1, ( which I chucked ), namely it has the arm that used to be on the 5 , a thicker platter and height adjustable feet. Not earth shaking changes, but I give Music Hall credit for knowing what the hell to upgrade when they did upgrade. Now if they would only loose that mind numbing Tracker cartridge they might even sell more.
Just a note: I think analog is really starting to take off again. I say this not because of any statistical data, but because the guys at work are talking about it. These are guys that don't give a rats ass about high end anything, and would prefer to gut deer and rebuild Hemi's. I read something quoted from the owner of Hollywood audio. He said that high end stereo gear appeals to only 1% of the general population. I would suggest it is more like 0.005% in Western Pa. When someone around me says anything at all about audio, I feel a bit less like a freak................ maybe not.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daviethek
The MMF 22 is getting slammed as the step child of the product line, however it has been appropriately upgraded over the 2.1, ( which I chucked ), namely it has the arm that used to be on the 5 , a thicker platter and height adjustable feet. Not earth shaking changes, but I give Music Hall credit for knowing what the hell to upgrade when they did upgrade. Now if they would only loose that mind numbing Tracker cartridge they might even sell more.
Just a note: I think analog is really starting to take off again. I say this not because of any statistical data, but because the guys at work are talking about it. These are guys that don't give a rats ass about high end anything, and would prefer to gut deer and rebuild Hemi's. I read something quoted from the owner of Hollywood audio. He said that high end stereo gear appeals to only 1% of the general population. I would suggest it is more like 0.005% in Western Pa. When someone around me says anything at all about audio, I feel a bit less like a freak................ maybe not.
I can relate to you. Not so much with audio, but with beer. I HATE domestics and am extremely picky when it comes to the ale. I get lots of stupid looks and comments, from strangers and friends alike. But as that perfect beer is going down, I get the last laugh. There is a laugh that comes after that. As they struggle with their bowels the following morning, this is the REAL last laugh. Grolsch and Hi-Fi 'til I die!!
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I kind of wonder if they've upgraded the MMF-2.2 to the point where it needs to have a cheap cartridge to avoid competing with the MMF-5.1. Put a Goldring GL-2200 on the 2.2 and you're golden.
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They probably bought a ton of the Elans and are using them up. Its a squirly cartridge. That table would be much better with an basic Ortofon or AT 95, both of which are highly upgradable. Is the Goldring 2200 a good cart? Is it in the neighborhood of the AT 440ML? Just curious. Hear a lot about both but no personal experience. My closest with either is the AT 120 upgraded with a Shibata, which I think is OK. .
I think you may be right about the 2.2. They must be doing something right, the damn table is sold out everywhere I checked. I think people are just getting back into the ritual which is good for everyone except those of us looking for cheap records. Buy em while you can I guess. My wife says I am a member of the St Vincent DePaul record of the month club. ( I thought that was funny anyway)
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Someone earlier mentioned the three entry level tables: MMF-2.2, the P1, and the Debut III and that got me thinking about my second 2-channel system, which currently doesn't have a TT, but I wouldn't mind considering it. It's a bit of a hodgepodge of gear I've collected over the years ( Odyssey Candela, Outlaw amp, Onkyo CD changer / Arcam DAC, and Klipsch RB-5 speakers). Believe it or not, as a digital source it sounds pretty good, but what if I wanted to add a TT, in the MMF-2.2, the P1, the Debut III range? More importantly, I'd want to purchase it w/o cart and then add one that would raise the SQ a bit.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppachubby
I can relate to you. Not so much with audio, but with beer. I HATE domestics and am extremely picky when it comes to the ale. I get lots of stupid looks and comments, from strangers and friends alike. But as that perfect beer is going down, I get the last laugh. There is a laugh that comes after that. As they struggle with their bowels the following morning, this is the REAL last laugh. Grolsch and Hi-Fi 'til I die!!
hey pops, have you spent any time at beeradvocate.com? There are many domestic craft brewers making fine beer. Over the past couple of years I've hardly bought the same beer twice - Stone, DogfishHead, Brooklyn, Bell's, Sierra Nevada, Great Divide, etc. are putting out great product in all styles. I don't think I'll ever buy another product from Miller, Coors or A-B. I've only skimmed the surface of imports, but I've found some German wheat beers and Belgian quads that I like so far. I have some offerings from Unibroue, which I believe is Canadian, waiting on me in the fridge. At present my preferences are the extreme beers from the craft brewers in the U.S. as if I really need something else to spend money on.
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I once owned a Thorens 295 MK ll with the earlier Pro-Ject arm also used by Music Hall. The arm was good but the electronics designed by Thorens was trouble. Any of the Music Hall or Pro-Ject turntable will be a good choice.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daviethek
Is the Goldring 2200 a good cart? Is it in the neighborhood of the AT 440ML?
I really like the 2200, although it grated on me just a little at first. It's a good all-arounder with good midrange and a clean sound. The top end would likely be a little better with the 440ML due to the micro-linear stylus, but with my AT cartridge and a similar stylus I didn't really care for that.
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