Heavy vs. Thin Vinyl....does it matter ?

is there much of a difference (sonically) between 180/200g LP's and the regular thinner versions that are common...and of course, cheaper ? I would assume that the thicker LP's sit better on the table and probably add to the overall firmness of the spin-time...but from a sound quality standpoint, is there such a difference ? I love vinyl these days, but tI'd rather pay 50% less on the non heavy vinyl versions.

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Originally Posted by dbrahms

is there much of a difference (sonically) between 180/200g LP's and the regular thinner versions that are common...and of course, cheaper ? I would assume that the thicker LP's sit better on the table and probably add to the overall firmness of the spin-time...but from a sound quality standpoint, is there such a difference ? I love vinyl these days, but tI'd rather pay 50% less on the non heavy vinyl versions.

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Heavy vinyl is no guaruntee that it is automatically better. However:

Identical pressings on heavy vinyl sound better almost universally, if the recording was good to begin with.

Good example: Mannhiem Steamroller Fresh Aire IV. The heavy vinyl version has better bass and more solid detail thanks to less resonance. Pink floyd is the same way. I have some 200 gram Solti, and Al Hirt that are breathtakingly great.

But: MOFI, and other heavy pressings can still contain lame recordings, so best research the title/lable/release first. There are duds out there just like there are crummy SACD's.

180 gram pressing seem to be the maximum weight before running into real problems. 200g you have to play with the VTA and chances of getting a bad pressing is much, much greater because it is harder to press at 200g and make a good one. Case in point: Classic Records have been getting alot of returns lately due to surface imperfections and noise on their 200g releases. Seems to be anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 that are sold get sent back. MOFI had problems as well with their Anadisque 200g series as well. 200g vinyl is just the company seeing how fat they can make their vinyl and still be able to play it. It has no sonic advantage over 180g. Plain overkill.
As far as having an advantage over standard issue... It all depends on where, what care was taken and how it was mastered to begin with.

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Originally Posted by stratman672001

180 gram pressing seem to be the maximum weight before running into real problems. 200g you have to play with the VTA and chances of getting a bad pressing is much, much greater because it is harder to press at 200g and make a good one. Case in point: Classic Records have been getting alot of returns lately due to surface imperfections and noise on their 200g releases. Seems to be anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 that are sold get sent back. MOFI had problems as well with their Anadisque 200g series as well. 200g vinyl is just the company seeing how fat they can make their vinyl and still be able to play it. It has no sonic advantage over 180g. Plain overkill.
As far as having an advantage over standard issue... It all depends on where, what care was taken and how it was mastered to begin with.

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I have read MOFI and a couple other current heavy pressings have been a big disappointment. :mad:

I can't say if 200g is really overkill or not. The 200g Solti/CSO/Beethoven's 9th and Al Hirt's 200g of his "Audio Fidelity" are beyond reproach. I think this is due mainly to the outstanding engineering, and not just because it's an extra 20g. I understand that a true heavy vinyl (sometimes called half speed masters) must be made with extreme care, and precision or you have made a mess. Would these have sounded good on 160 or 180g? I have no doubt. These recordings would stand out on normal vinyl. :D

Will a 180g sound as good? I don't have a 180g and 200g pressing of the same thing to compare. But I will say regular vinyl vs a well done 160g: the difference is noticeable. The very basis for heavy vinyl is to take much more time to cut them in the lathe than a normal pressing so that it isn't just the weight, but the precision of the tracks. 200g could very well have been one of the early audiophile ego overkill products on the market.

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Originally Posted by Sealed

I have read MOFI and a couple other current heavy pressings have been a big disappointment. :mad:

I can't say if 200g is really overkill or not. The 200g Solti/CSO/Beethoven's 9th and Al Hirt's 200g of his "Audio Fidelity" are beyond reproach. I think this is due mainly to the outstanding engineering, and not just because it's an extra 20g. I understand that a true heavy vinyl (sometimes called half speed masters) must be made with extreme care, and precision or you have made a mess. Would these have sounded good on 160 or 180g? I have no doubt. These recordings would stand out on normal vinyl. :D

Will a 180g sound as good? I don't have a 180g and 200g pressing of the same thing to compare. But I will say regular vinyl vs a well done 160g: the difference is noticeable. The very basis for heavy vinyl is to take much more time to cut them in the lathe than a normal pressing so that it isn't just the weight, but the precision of the tracks. 200g could very well have been one of the early audiophile ego overkill products on the market.

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Here's a discussion you may find interesting

I never had much problem with record warpage until the thinner vinyls made their appearance around 1970. Then it seemed to me that how stores stacked their discs could create problems. In theory, PVC has the same modulus of elasticity whether its thick or thin. This determines how much deflection the groove will undergo for a given stylus geometry and pressure. If a record company switched from thick to thin vinyl during a production run (probably rarely the other way) the later pressings may have been inferior due to the stamper being more worn. On the other hand, technology improved and many smaller record companies and even larger ones got better recording equipment as years went on so their later thinner production may have been better for other reasons. It is therefore difficult or impossible to tell which is better due to the other large numbers of variables which influence record quality.

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Originally Posted by stratman672001

Here's a discussion you may find interesting

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Thanks for the thread! From Steve Hoffman, no less! His stuff is awesome.

I own exactly two 200 gram LP's - one is excellent and one is mediocre. But MoFi's problems aren't the heft of the LP, IMHO. They just seemed to try too hard to turn their vinyl into the warm, soft, mushy sounding discs that all the digiphiles rail about! The original "The Blues Alone" by John Mayall was highly detailed and clear and the MoFi reissue is dull and overly warm. I've found that to be the case in a few other of their LP's.