Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    First jump into vinyl: LINN lp-12

    After the better part of 5 years of wanting vinyl, I have plunged.

    LP-12/Ittok arm/valhalla ps/k18 cart

    And a boatload of premium vinyl from various lables.

    I knew Vinyl had to be part of my system after the Bristol UK show illustrated how superb vinyl sounds. None of the digital front ends gave me the midrange detail, fluidity, timbre or tonality the vinyl did.

    There is a damn good reason vinyl is as popular as it is. It makes great music.

    I did meet one chap that stated "Give me a decent $700 vinly rig over *ANY* cd player"

    I am beginning to agree with him!

  2. #2
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Pretty nice first jump

    You should enjoy that rig for many years to come. Maybe forever. Can be fidgety and finnicky but capable of sounding just about as good as any.
    Bill

  3. #3
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    162
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    After the better part of 5 years of wanting vinyl, I have plunged.

    LP-12/Ittok arm/valhalla ps/k18 cart

    And a boatload of premium vinyl from various lables.

    I knew Vinyl had to be part of my system after the Bristol UK show illustrated how superb vinyl sounds. None of the digital front ends gave me the midrange detail, fluidity, timbre or tonality the vinyl did.

    There is a damn good reason vinyl is as popular as it is. It makes great music.

    I did meet one chap that stated "Give me a decent $700 vinly rig over *ANY* cd player"

    I am beginning to agree with him!
    Just one slight addendum to the quote above. I think it's the CD's that are the problem, not the CD players. LP's just capture the music more accurately and fully, in my experience.

    Congrats on your purchase! In a lot of cases, you're about to experience music for the first time that you thought you knew well!

  4. #4
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    Relistening

    I have in fact been listening to lp vs cd.
    I have some classical titles on cd/lp as well as the following:
    Pink Foyd DSOTM
    Steely dan: gaucho
    Rush: signals
    Santana: moonflower

    In each case, the Lp was more fluid,. detailed in the mid, and compelling to listen to.

    Alas, the needle jumped during 1812 overture, and I have to troubleshoot a left channel noise.

    I am going to upgrade my used k-18 cart to a new Ortofon kontrapunkt cart. I would like just a touch more sparkle on the top end.

    Other than that, this thing is a sonic magnet! You are welded into the sofa to listen as long as it plays. That is a good thing!

  5. #5
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    I have in fact been listening to lp vs cd.
    I have some classical titles on cd/lp as well as the following:
    Pink Foyd DSOTM
    Steely dan: gaucho
    Rush: signals
    Santana: moonflower

    In each case, the Lp was more fluid,. detailed in the mid, and compelling to listen to.

    Alas, the needle jumped during 1812 overture, and I have to troubleshoot a left channel noise.

    I am going to upgrade my used k-18 cart to a new Ortofon kontrapunkt cart. I would like just a touch more sparkle on the top end.

    Other than that, this thing is a sonic magnet! You are welded into the sofa to listen as long as it plays. That is a good thing!
    CD's also have that annoying habit of presenting the music unnaturally. Besides tonal and timbral anomalies, a note on a CD just stops dead instead of ringing true as it does in real life. Most noticeable on solo recordings. It never fails to forcibly remind me that I'm listening to a reproduction.

    I have no problems with either recording of the 1812 that I own. It does cause some rigs fits, though. A cartridge upgrade, particularly to the Kontrapunkt which I just bought will be good all around.

    As for the sonic magnet, I find it impossible to do anything but listen when an LP is playing. I listen to CD's while on the 'net or working around the house as they are not nearly as compelling or realistic a listen, IMHO. Enjoy music and leave the measurements to those that are biased by them!

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    Ortofon

    I have contacted the dealer.

    The problem with the LP-12 I had was that the leads of the left of the cart wiggled a bit loose.

    I am also making a sandwich type platform for the table, consisting of a layer of plywood and hard rubber to isolate it better.

    I am picking up a Ortofon Kontrapunkt A this Friday (installed) for $475 from the dealer I got the deck from.

    Everything I read about the Ortofon places it in topnotch company. It will be a nice step up from the k-18.

    Between the record cleaner and the new cart, it will involve me like no cd player has. But I will say upfront: I am not a hardcore Linnie. Other decks sound wonderful. even the Rega p25, which is not really in the same league sounded great, just not quite as revealing.

    Give me vinyl!

  7. #7
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    After the better part of 5 years of wanting vinyl, I have plunged.

    LP-12/Ittok arm/valhalla ps/k18 cart
    Nice table. I have a nearly thirty year old Ariston (direct forerunner to Linn) that still soldiers on. You'll be able to maintain the Linn virtually indefinitely.

    rw

  8. #8
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,462
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    Alas, the needle jumped during 1812 overture, and I have to troubleshoot a left channel noise.
    Would that be the Telarc 1812 where you can visually count the grooves as they are spaced so widely?

    Not many arm/cartridge combinations can track that version.

    rw

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    1812

    Yep.. Telarc ...that's the recording. I think that sucker will have to be played low, or on cd.

    I have a potent 15" diy sub crossed over at 40hz. There was so much subsonic bass the concrete floor shook on the cannon shots.

    The needle jumped a LOOONG way!

  10. #10
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    That Telarc is hard to track

    I have the same one and tracked all but two of the cannon shots. Not my favorite music but a helluva demonstration and a very good digital LP. I moved a photo envelope full of photos about 6 inches from several feet away that was sitting on a coffee table. You could really feel the blast. It's the only recording I have that I am unable to track without a slight skip.
    Bill

  11. #11
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    Tracking

    It's not just a case of tracking, it was also a case of getting over 105db of 20hz bass.

    When those canon shots hit, it answered my question wheather or not this deck setup had bass.

    The problem is, the needle had enough trouble staying in the grooves, but the massive burst of bass energy transmitted it's shock through the cement floor, up my stereo rack and into the table. It was scary.

    NOTE to self: don't do that again.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    277

    Wow, and LP12 for a first table...look mom, no training wheels

    I got back in with a Planar 3, then to an LP12 just like yours. Had some isolation issues that I couldn't fix, and finally ended up with a VPI Scout. Although I like the Scout better than I did the LP12, the LP12 has a certain magic that really makes you want to listen to vinyl. I do miss it on occaison.

    You did good. Like the other posters have said, that is a table for a lifetime with a little care. Glad you got it from a dealer so it got set up properly. That is critical with an LP12. The secret is out to someone else...just stay out of my vinyl haunts, I don't need the competition. Otherwise...enjoy.
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  13. #13
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,462
    Quote Originally Posted by spacedeckman
    ... and finally ended up with a VPI Scout.
    As did I. Used an Ariston RD-11s (predecessor to Linn with same motor) for nearly thirty years until recently acquiring a Scout. The VPI is a sweet TT for the price and does excel the Linn designs sonically.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails First jump into vinyl:  LINN lp-12-scout2.jpg  

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    sonics

    I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard "X" deck beats the LINN Lp-12 sonically. Even Micheal Fremer of stereophile said he liked the LINN better than some decks in the 35-75K range.

    Every time I hear "X" deck, they ALWAYS compare it to the LP-12 as a de-facto yardstick for contest. Notice it's the Lp-12...not other brands/models.

    What arn? what cart? what phonostage ? what amp? etc...
    I highly doubt the lp-12 you heard had a $7k cart, $7k arm and $10k phonostage so you could really compare. The linn is just that flexible.

    And then the argument comes full circle when 12 guys who own the Lp-12 say they like it better than anything VPI makes. Opinions are like a....... and so on.

    It never ends!

    I could have bought a Rockport hyperion, and someone would say "Yeah but the Lp-12 beats it" Noting that they always use the lp-12 as the standard. That says a whole lot.I have no urge/worries/intentions of moving to a VPI or anything else. As soon as I did something like that, I'd get 24 opinions that say "Yeah but the Lp-12 is better sounding and more involving".

    The only way to win in this game is to buy what you like the sound of, and not worry who thinks what sounds better. Otherwise it's running on a treadmill after a dangling carrot you will never catch. No matter WHAT you buy...someone always likes something else better. I just met a guy who has a well prepped Rega deck, a p25 I think it was. Some chap asked him at the Bristol show (sneering) "So when are you going to upgrade to the SME?" He replied: "What's the bloody point?, I thouroughly enjoy the Rega. I'd be spending a lot of money just for the sake of change. Then, I'd miss my Rega"

    It seems he doesn't listen to opinions, he listens to music.

    "JANE! Stop this crazy thing!"
    Last edited by Sealed; 03-05-2004 at 12:32 AM.

  15. #15
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    its not so much the transmitted energy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    It's not just a case of tracking, it was also a case of getting over 105db of 20hz bass.

    When those canon shots hit, it answered my question wheather or not this deck setup had bass.

    The problem is, the needle had enough trouble staying in the grooves, but the massive burst of bass energy transmitted it's shock through the cement floor, up my stereo rack and into the table. It was scary.

    NOTE to self: don't do that again.
    as it is the fact that the groove takes about a 90 degree turn (some of the jackets have microphotographs of the groove). IF there are carts that can track it, there are about 2 or so in the world.

    the cd should also be played low enough to not blow your speakers.

    for some REAL music on telarc vinyl try pictures at an exhibition with lorin maazel and the cleveland orch. it is a WONDERFUL performance and the recording is top notch, and sounds better on vinyl than its own cd counterpart.
    ...regards...tr

  16. #16
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy
    as it is the fact that the groove takes about a 90 degree turn (some of the jackets have microphotographs of the groove). IF there are carts that can track it, there are about 2 or so in the world.
    --YIKES!


    the cd should also be played low enough to not blow your speakers.
    My ATC's can handle massive trauma. Volume doesn't worry me, pops, bangs and spendy carts getting damaged do. I can crank the snot out of the telarc cd...it's just the Lp that scares me...

    for some REAL music on telarc vinyl try pictures at an exhibition with lorin maazel and the cleveland orch. it is a WONDERFUL performance and the recording is top notch, and sounds better on vinyl than its own cd counterpart.
    That Lp is on the shelf where I got the LP-12. I am returning there today for a new cart and more vinly. I have one version of Mussorgsky on vinyl, but it's a brass ensemble. I would like to get the Telarc LP or equivalent. Pictures at an exhibition is one of my favorite cd's.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    162

    Well...

    [QUOTE=Sealed]I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard "X" deck beats the LINN Lp-12 sonically. Even Micheal Fremer of stereophile said he liked the LINN better than some decks in the 35-75K range.

    Every time I hear "X" deck, they ALWAYS compare it to the LP-12 as a de-facto yardstick for contest. Notice it's the Lp-12...not other brands/models.

    What arn? what cart? what phonostage ? what amp? etc...
    I highly doubt the lp-12 you heard had a $7k cart, $7k arm and $10k phonostage so you could really compare. The linn is just that flexible.

    And then the argument comes full circle when 12 guys who own the Lp-12 say they like it better than anything VPI makes. Opinions are like a....... and so on.

    It never ends!

    I could have bought a Rockport hyperion, and someone would say "Yeah but the Lp-12 beats it" Noting that they always use the lp-12 as the standard. That says a whole lot.I have no urge/worries/intentions of moving to a VPI or anything else. As soon as I did something like that, I'd get 24 opinions that say "Yeah but the Lp-12 is better sounding and more involving".

    The only way to win in this game is to buy what you like the sound of, and not worry who thinks what sounds better. Otherwise it's running on a treadmill after a dangling carrot you will never catch. No matter WHAT you buy...someone always likes something else better. I just met a guy who has a well prepped Rega deck, a p25 I think it was. Some chap asked him at the Bristol show (sneering) "So when are you going to upgrade to the SME?" He replied: "What's the bloody point?, I thouroughly enjoy the Rega. I'd be spending a lot of money just for the sake of change. Then, I'd miss my Rega"

    It seems he doesn't listen to opinions, he listens to music.

    /QUOTE]

    It takes some of us years to figure out what you already have. There are no absolutes in audio and even if there were, who cares? You love you LP-12 and there's no reason you shouldn't. Enjoy!

  18. #18
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    277

    Sealed, you apparently didn't get my post,

    I really liked my LP12, and have 3 friends that would have nothing else. Two of them are down in basement setups, and the other has no kids. The kids on an upstairs floor are what talked me out of the LP12, otherwise I would still have it and be happy as a pig in slop.

    If you noticed my post, I continually praised the LP12, and even called it "magic".

    I love my VPI, and prefer it's presentation. But it isn't as lush, romantic, and warm sounding as my LP12 was. The VPI is more direct, less colored (color can be a good thing), with more drive. They are two completely different machines, with two distinctly different views into the music. Both are valid choices.

    As I said earlier, you done good. Don't pick out comments and construe them as negatively impacting your choice. An LP12 is a great table, especially with the Ittok arm, which I still think is the best Linn arm. I wish I could have kept that arm, but couldn't have sold the table without it and gotten the money I needed for change. I left because of lack of success with a suspended table in my environment, not because the LP12 was a bad table.

    Lighten up, go buy some good vinyl and sixer of good beer. Enjoy your weekend.
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    Linn

    I am too new to vinyl to trule get upset. I can only state what I have seen and heard. The K-18 cart I had was a bit colored, kind of like a bit rolled on top and lush in the middle. it was musical and pleasent to listen to.

    My current ortofon kontrapunkt cart (along with the dealers masterful alignment and setup) has resulted in something that is very close to neutral.

    I can describe it like this:

    If neutral is 65 degrees and a clear day, this is 74 degrees. The K-18 was more like 82. And I am NOT getting any of that mid bass bloat that people accuse the Lp-12 of. That might have been true of a 70's model, but not 80's or 90's.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    sylmar, ca. in beautiful so cal earthquake country
    Posts
    1,442

    i am familiar with

    the Kb and always wondered if the a was close. sounds as if it is. the first of these i heard was the jubilee in my friends sota sapphire/mmt and was heartily impressed. the Kb came so close and was even preferable in some areas that my friend and i called it a bargain. he bought another for backup.

    now there are the c and h (not associated with the sugar company). it will be interesting to hear the reports of their sound as well.

    as time goes on, let us know how fussy the linn is as to setup and maintaining it. we have all heard that its fussy so let us know what your experience is.
    ...regards...tr

  21. #21
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    189

    Lp12

    The Kontrapunkt A ran me $475 because the dealer cut me a break. The "B" goes for about $900.

    The world of vinyl, (as I quickly ascertained) is much more inclusive of pitfalls than digital. There is only so much you can screw up with a cd player connection.

    Some of the carts I looked at I could not use. A good example would be Grado. The carts may sound superb on other decks, but cannot be used with the light Ittok arm because the carts are really "springy."

    The dealer went through a 90 minute setup, and showed me how lowering the arm emphasized bass, raising it...treble.

    Once all of the adjustments were made, it is going to run that way for many months.

    I cannot recommend the Ortofon cart for other arms, because I have no experiance with what the result will be. Not to mention that certain phono stages may cause certain carts to sound fat.

    It's a lot of things to think about, but the results are worth it. I am glad I opted for a totally modifiable deck, vs a deck that can only accept another cart. I don't feel limited by choices, just budget. What I have now is extremely enjoyable.
    Last edited by Sealed; 03-08-2004 at 06:32 AM.

  22. #22
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,710

    Thumbs up Telarc 1812

    I have the Telarc 1812 on Vinyl and CD. The vinyl sounds better. There is more there there. The LP did snap a diamond right of the cantilever on a Shure V-15 some years back. This was during one of the cannon shots. I have a dozen or so recordings on vinyl and CD. in every instance the vinyl sounds better. The 12" singles sound a lot better than the CD versions although this could be because of different mastering. Incorrect cartridge loading is the main reason cartridges sound different with different phono preamps. This does not mean that all phono preamps sound the same.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  23. #23
    Forum Regular risabet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    177

    Linn & Telarc

    I have owned an LP-12 for nigh on 18 years and have not regretted it once. In that time I have had in my house or sold tables by Oracle, AR, VPI and SOTA. Each of those has much to offer the vinyl fanatic but in the end I have always kept the LP-12, it serves the music the best for my taste. That is the point! Every table will have strengths and weaknesses, some like the drive of the VPI's, the neutrality of the SOTA, the sweet treble of the Oracles. For me the "tune" is the key and none play it like a Linn.

    The onle TT I have owned that would track the Telarc 1812 was an old HK table with a Shure v15. That album is a system wrecker for sure. I leave mine on the shelf where it belongs. It never gets near my TT anymore.

    Linn LP-12 (Origin Live Advanced PS w/DC Motor) Benz "ACE" medium output*TAD-150*Tube Audio Design TAD-1000 monoblocs*Parasound CD-P 1000*NAD 4020A Tuner*Velodyne F-1000 Subwoofer*Toshiba SD-4700 DVD*Motorola DTP-5100 HD converter*Pioneer PDP-4300*Martin-Logan Clarity*Audioquest cables and interconnects* Panamax 5100 power conditioner

  24. #24
    RGA
    RGA is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,539
    I am relatively new to the turntable game and there is certainly an upgrade in my future as my dealer is a HUGE turntable supporter - a lot of other dealers carry one line of table usually Rega because they have a name at a lower price.

    My dealer has a lot of excellent turntable companies all over the price map from Pro-ject, NAD and Rega to Linn and Audio Note. The latter two will be the ones I'll be looking into. The store owner has AN TT3 (A Void Reference) which is my favorite of the tables I've heard - but for the money way out of my league. ~2kcdn price range will place me in the Linn and TT2 range and of course depending what pops up used.

    For really cheap I liked the Pro-Ject better than my table stock - and the Pro-Ject (a new pick-up for this dealer) is IMO better - lean but crisp and cleaner sounding. Not sure I agree with the Turntable being better than CD - the Audio Note CD player with its no times oversampling was astonishingly 3dimensional full bodied clearer open etc.

    I'm hooked on the all analog set-up these guys believe in - and when they do go digital they want it as pure digital as possible.

    I'm always hoping some fool leaves a Linn at my used record shop - always have the eye out - the Linn was made me take notice of what good LP can do.

  25. #25
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    727
    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I am relatively new to the turntable game and there is certainly an upgrade in my future as my dealer is a HUGE turntable supporter - a lot of other dealers carry one line of table usually Rega because they have a name at a lower price.

    My dealer has a lot of excellent turntable companies all over the price map from Pro-ject, NAD and Rega to Linn and Audio Note. The latter two will be the ones I'll be looking into. The store owner has AN TT3 (A Void Reference) which is my favorite of the tables I've heard - but for the money way out of my league. ~2kcdn price range will place me in the Linn and TT2 range and of course depending what pops up used.

    For really cheap I liked the Pro-Ject better than my table stock - and the Pro-Ject (a new pick-up for this dealer) is IMO better - lean but crisp and cleaner sounding. Not sure I agree with the Turntable being better than CD - the Audio Note CD player with its no times oversampling was astonishingly 3dimensional full bodied clearer open etc.

    I'm hooked on the all analog set-up these guys believe in - and when they do go digital they want it as pure digital as possible.

    I'm always hoping some fool leaves a Linn at my used record shop - always have the eye out - the Linn was made me take notice of what good LP can do.
    It's been at least a decade since I've heard a Linn turntable. There are no Linn dealers in my area. I use the same SOTA I've had for awhile but have upgraded it to SOTA's new standards. It's as good or better than any I've heard. I haven't shopped around because my vinyl playback system was never a soft spot in my overall rig. Now the digital front end... that was another matter!

    I just scored an Audio Note Dac 3.1X on the secondary market and for the first time in my life, I'm beginning to question which format sounds better. Digital could never do before what it does with the AN. Man, nothing for me to ***** about now! I'd say that on some recordings, vinyl sounds better and on some, I prefer the CD. For years I thought it CD was just a lousy format and it still does some things I don't care for but the AN made it clear that a good CD player will bring out the virtues of the medium.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. help! i'm doing research for my degree
    By jemmamartin in forum Analog Room
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 01-01-2008, 12:20 PM
  2. Vinyl is still KING
    By DMK in forum Analog Room
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 05-09-2007, 05:32 PM
  3. LINN Classik with Dali Grand Coupe Speakers???
    By ASHamburg in forum Speakers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-02-2004, 12:51 PM
  4. Which speakers to succeed LINN Keilidhs?
    By ASHamburg in forum Speakers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-28-2004, 10:43 AM
  5. Buckingham Nicks (a vinyl review)
    By 3-LockBox in forum Rave Recordings
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-15-2003, 06:18 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •