CD is dead. Long live Vinyl?

[Feanor]

Ah, that recalls the glory days of vinyl by the pound sales and dumpster diving!

...
Now, we're in a market where that stock of high quality low cost vinyl is largely depleted. What remains for sale is generally cheap vinyl is less than stellar condition and quality vinyl that commands a price premium. It's still possible to unearth a choice LP in the used record bins, but my searches as of late have been a lot less fruitful (and more expensive) than before.

There are still a lot of people who insist that vinyl is a great deal because one can buy used LPs for a buck a piece. Oh yeah? Where can you do that? Not in the local shops where I am; not on eBay; not at Audiogon, etc. And certainly not the classical music I'm mainly interested in.

[Luvin Da Blues]

There are still a lot of people who insist that vinyl is a great deal because one can buy used LPs for a buck a piece. Oh yeah? Where can you do that? Not in the local shops where I am; not on eBay; not at Audiogon, etc. And certainly not the classical music I'm mainly interested in.

I just bought a fellow workers vinyl collection, 400 albums, mostly all in great shape, for a G note. Very mixed bag of goods, from Baez to Dire Straits to ZZ Top, with a few audiophile grade disks to boot. 90% have been professionally cleaned.

Now if I can shake this work thing I could be in heaven all day long.

[GMichael]

Okay, Okay

I will give you some hints, which may, or may not guide you in the right direction.

1: It's not Bose, neither are they tiny
2: They're from America, where they are also built.
3: They're out of production since 2003, since then, their new model has continued this range...

Happy guessing, Rep points for who guesses right

no; those 3 who already know are not allowed to give the right answer before anyone else does, It would be kinda unfair

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Sparkomatics?

[nightflier]

There are still a lot of people who insist that vinyl is a great deal because one can buy used LPs for a buck a piece. Oh yeah? Where can you do that? Not in the local shops where I am; not on eBay; not at Audiogon, etc. And certainly not the classical music I'm mainly interested in.

Well I haven't bought from eBay in a while, but here are some promising auctions:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HUGE-LOT-64-CLAS...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/CLASSICAL-COLLEC...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/CLASSICAL-COLLEC...QQcmdZViewItem

And if you're in the bay area, you might want to give this guy a call:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/emd/464202741.html

The problem with buying LPs online is that shipping is never cheap. I prefer to find a used record store and see for myself what the surface looks like, but that does take some time. I also keep tabs on people I know that have decent collections and when they are getting rid of stuff, or they want to trade, I make sure I'm the first person they call.

[shokhead]

The digital delivery of music seems to have absorbed much of the sales of traditional CDs.

However, Vinyl sales are rising and market futures look optimistic. Could Vinyl ultimately be around to see the demise of the CD?

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/m...eningpost_1029

In short,NO!.

[Feanor]

nightflier, thanks again.

Checking out the eBay offerings, I see that it's indeed (most likely) possible to buy LPs at a buck a piece. Maybe I'll watch these lots and see what they actually go for.

But let's say it's $1 per. LPs are pretty heavy and one seller suggested $2 per or a bit more, so we're talking about $3 per, shipped. Shipping into Canada, a large package of records is likely to attract brokerage, tax, and duties, maybe 25% of declared value, so we're at $3.25 per.

With lots like these I've got to take the good with the bad. Of the titles, I'd say at most 50% would be of any interest to me, and of these a few would likely be in bad shape, so let's say 33% are valuable. Do the math and we're looking at almost $10 per. That's not much less than what I pay on average for the CDs I buy, (I'm bargain hunter plus I buy a lot of Naxos). So I think I'll pass.

[jim goulding]

Go to Bis Records and click on About Bis. This is a Scandanavian outfit who may can tell you how to pick a couple of sides. Excellent recordings with a focus on native composers. Happy trails.

[Mr Peabody]

Yip, it must be Thiel. Those also sound very sweet but the models I've heard haven't exactly been bass monsters.

It's interesting that a home speaker would use coaxials when those have been criticized to sell components in car audio.

[bobsticks]

Go to Bis Records and click on About Bis. This is a Scandanavian outfit who may can tell you how to pick a couple of sides. Excellent recordings with a focus on native composers. Happy trails.

Abso-frikken-lutely. BIS does some fantastic stuff much of which comes out on SACD. I have several from their eclectic catalogue including three or four from Edvard Grieg, which I regard as the best interpretations of Grieg I've ever heard. "Norwegian Dances", "Slovakian Dances", and "Symphony in C" are all excellent as is the "Peer Gynt" boxed set. Interestingly, many of the multi-channel offerings are in 5.0 so those with sub/sat combos may want to beware. Fullrange is a must.

The Kempf Trio's "Beethoven's Piano Trios", a disc that I have flogged repeatedly, is also from the good fellows at BIS.

[jim goulding]

Bobby- You are full of surprises.

[bobsticks]

Yeah, I'm kinda bougie--like Gatsby but without the problems.

[nightflier]

Feanor,

I can't change the import/export duties across the border. You'll have to mount your own protests (I'm sure the recent governement policies on both sides of our borders are a large part of the reason - so much for that liberals-raise-taxes mantra they're always ranting about). Anyhoo, I don't deny that with shipping, it does make LPs less competitive. That's why for the best deals you have to wander the weekend garage sales and swap meets. It's not the easiest way to buy but it can definitely be rewarding - especially for those of us who buy less-mainstream stuff like classical and jazz.

Speaking of streams, I bough a collection of New Third Stream LPs from a guy two weeks ago and it was all pristine condition - said he got it from an estate sale and he "hated" that stuff. After haggling, I ended up paying $40 for over two dozen LPs (Scorched, SteamTeam, Vitous, etc.). So yes, there's some good stuff to be had, but you have to hunt for it.

Bobsticks, thanks for the link. BIS has a nice selection and good prices, but no way to listen to samples. That's OK for the better known stuff, but I'm always on the lookout for new & modern stuff - and for that I need to hear it. Although I suppose the surprise is OK sometime.

[jrhymeammo]

also comes from lack of availability. I guess it's just a personal tyle, but I love digging, LP stores with a friendly service that has a tinkle facility gets alot more money from me than other that do not. I dont mind going thru hundreds of crates, as long as I can take my time.

Nothing is sweeter than finding a good copy of albums you've been searching for a long time. Maybe that's one of the reasons why reissues do not sound as good as originals. Hmmmm......


NP: Charlie Partker: Now's the Time.(Universal Reissue).


Hey Bas, did you get the pair yet? I've thought you got them by now.
JRA

[squeegy200]

There are still a lot of people who insist that vinyl is a great deal because one can buy used LPs for a buck a piece. Oh yeah? Where can you do that? Not in the local shops where I am; not on eBay; not at Audiogon, etc. And certainly not the classical music I'm mainly interested in.

I usually stop by thrift shops and second hand stores. Estate sales are also great places to find boxes of LPs. Oftentimes I can pick up a box of LPs for around $10. Most are trash but I sometimes find jewels amongst the chaff.

My local audio club also has a software event every year. Every member brings their extras and sells them. These are usually in very good shape and my local club has a few distributors amongst its membership so there's usually quite a selection to choose from.

The best source is friends who no longer own turntables. I've acquired a handful of collections from people I've known who discover that I'm still listening to the spinning wax. They tell me they no longer have a turntable and often are glad to clean out their closets.

[Feanor]

...

The best source is friends who no longer own turntables. I've acquired a handful of collections from people I've known who discover that I'm still listening to the spinning wax. They tell me they no longer have a turntable and often are glad to clean out their closets.

I have a couple of hundred LPs; I rarely, (virtually never), listen to them, and I'd be glad to get rid of them some how other than just pitching them in the trash. Most are in very good to excellent condition.

Buyer pays shipping. Email me if you're interested.

[kexodusc]

Feanor (and any other music buying Canadians) - the way to buy LP's from the US is just to make sure the Value for duty is below $20 on your purchases, or just ensure the shipper is using USPS - you won't be charged brokerage by Canada Post/USPS. I don't always take advantage of "combined shipping" offers just to keep the vfd below $20. Of course sometimes it's not that big a hit in which case going over $20 isn't the end of the world.
On used LP's or used CD's most most ebayers I've dealt with just declare them as "used LP's" at below $20 (unless you're buying a bunch of rare, expensive LP's or something). Customs has a fast-tracked system for sub-$20 imports so they just get courier-remissioned and you don't pay any taxes, duty, brokerage or handling fees. I frequently instruct the shippers to send items in bundles of just under $20 to avoid surcharges (ie, 4 or 5 cd's in one package, 4 or 5 in another) - I might pay more in extra shipping, but I often save 3 or 4 times that additional cost by avoiding the surcharges. Makes buying abroad a lot more attractive. Makes ordering on line a bit more time consuming, but I'll surrender to redundancy to save money.

Sometimes though the import fees aren't all that bad - I bought 12 albums last week, 8 SACD's and 4 CD's. Total VFD was $158 CAD - I took the guy up on the combined shipping rate - think it was an additional $9 total which was pretty good.
I had to pay the tax at 14% but there is no duty on anything made in North America (one nice thing about NAFTA) and no brokerage because the shipper used USPS, which hands it over to the government owned Canada Post, who doesn't impose brokerage levies on the public that UPS and Fed Ex do for reasons I won't get into.
I even had a CD made in Japan but the shipper just assumed USA so that's all he declared. I figure I saved at least $80 over the best rate I could find inside the country - the tax I would have to pay anyway. Quite a bit of wiggle room to still make ordering from the US cheaper. SACD's aren't usually as cheap here and are a bit harder to find in my neck of the woods.

[Feanor]

I frequently order CDs from ArkivMusic.com. Obviously Arkiv charge lower per item shipping when orders are combined, so I order that way. Even though my combined orders are generally much more than $20, I rarely pay any duty or Canada Post changes. How come?

Well, Archiv, despite combined shipping charge, actually ships the constituent items separately from different locations, so the individual package is often <$20.

I believe there is another "unofficial" factor at work. I suspect Canada Post often delivers physically small packages without inspection regardless of declared value -- if true, another advantage of CDs over LPs.

[musicoverall]

I have a couple of hundred LPs; I rarely, (virtually never), listen to them, and I'd be glad to get rid of them some how other than just pitching them in the trash. Most are in very good to excellent condition.

Buyer pays shipping. Email me if you're interested.

I set up an account just to clean out some old stuff I wasn't listening to. It took off so fast and furious that I now have an actual internet business buying and selling. Over the last 120 days, I've sold about 400 CD's. I'm mostly selling CD's but I have a ton of LP's to list when I get the time. It's still just "additional income" - I still have to work!

I tell you this because if you still have the LP's and I buy them from you, I will resell them at most certainly a handsome profit. That profit could be yours!

[Feanor]

I set up an account just to clean out some old stuff I wasn't listening to. It took off so fast and furious that I now have an actual internet business buying and selling. Over the last 120 days, I've sold about 400 CD's. I'm mostly selling CD's but I have a ton of LP's to list when I get the time. It's still just "additional income" - I still have to work!

I tell you this because if you still have the LP's and I buy them from you, I will resell them at most certainly a handsome profit. That profit could be yours!

Well great, moa. Glad you're doing well with it.

When you say "set up an account", what/where are you referring to? I've bought/sold stuff on eBay. Not difficult, but LPs are heavy, so that's some discouragement for selling, and a really big discouragement for buying with any prospect of reselling at a profit.

As for selling mys stuff, the question is whether I can first be bothered digitizing them. Right now I have a post asking for advice about a low cost phono preamp since I don't have one at the moment.

[nightflier]

Well great, moa. Glad you're doing well with it.

When you say "set up an account", what/where are you referring to? I've bought/sold stuff on eBay. Not difficult, but LPs are heavy, so that's some discouragement for selling, and a really big discouragement for buying with any prospect of reselling at a profit.

As for selling mys stuff, the question is whether I can first be bothered digitizing them. Right now I have a post asking for advice about a low cost phono preamp since I don't have one at the moment.

You have a point, but I think if you buy in bulk (sometimes LPs are sold by the crate or palette), and do a little research, you can separate out the valuable pieces and sell them at a decent markup - if you combine that with weekend trips to garage sales, estate sales and swap meets, you could easily make some extra cash.

I have a friend who buys whole stereo systems on eBay and elsewhere, separates out the components and resells them piecemeal - he doesn't even have to buy packing materials since he usually flips most of the stuff right away. The best part is that over the last four years he has been able to put together a very nice hi-fi setup from the gear and it cost him very little. He is a high-school counselor during the day, so he's not rolling in the money, but the extra eBay income has all been going into his "vacation fund" and I'll tell you he's been to a lot of places I would love to be able to go to. If you consider how much longer and healthier he will live as a result... well anyhow, my point is that there's ways to make this work.

Regarding the digitizing of LP's I have to agree that's a painstaking process. I record them onto a CD-RW using a recorder in my rack, then I take the disk to the computer, where I have to copy it to the hard drive and clean up the snaps crackles & pops using audio software, and then re-burn it to a regular CD-R. Some tips I would offer:

- Use good software. I played with Audacity but I get far more mileage out of Sony software. Yes, it's Sony, but it works very well.

- Use a record cleaner. Spring for the NittyGritty base model, it's a whole lot better than a carbon fiber brush.

- Like any project, expect it to take twice as long as you think.

- The ProJect PhonoBox is an excellent bargain-basement preamp, but if you can spring for it, get something better like the Jolida JD9a. I use a Phonomena, but I'm still lusting after that Jolida.

- Use a decent turntable and cartridge. I know this goes w/o saying, but $100 TT isn't going to cut it.

- Make backups - there's nothing like loosing 30Gb of songs to remind you of that. Automate them for when you're not at the computer, if you have to.

And the best tip that has nothing to do with sound quality? Use a Lightscribe CD burner. If you start accumulating CD-Rs like I have, there's nothing more annoying that having to search for that one song by re-checking a bunch of hand-labeled or blank CDs in a stack. Lightscribe burns an image onto the disk after you burn the music w/o needing ink or dies - this feature is priceless.

I hope this helps a little.

[Feanor]

You have a point, but I think if you buy in bulk (sometimes LPs are sold by the crate or palette), and do a little research, you can separate out the valuable pieces and sell them at a decent markup - if you combine that with weekend trips to garage sales, estate sales and swap meets, you could easily make some extra cash.

I have a friend who buys whole stereo systems on eBay and elsewhere, separates out the components and resells them piecemeal - he doesn't even have to buy packing materials since he usually flips most of the stuff right away. The best part is that over the last four years he has been able to put together a very nice hi-fi setup from the gear and it cost him very little. He is a high-school counselor during the day, so he's not rolling in the money, but the extra eBay income has all been going into his "vacation fund" and I'll tell you he's been to a lot of places I would love to be able to go to. If you consider how much longer and healthier he will live as a result... well anyhow, my point is that there's ways to make this work.

Regarding the digitizing of LP's I have to agree that's a painstaking process. I record them onto a CD-RW using a recorder in my rack, then I take the disk to the computer, where I have to copy it to the hard drive and clean up the snaps crackles & pops using audio software, and then re-burn it to a regular CD-R. Some tips I would offer:

- Use good software. I played with Audacity but I get far more mileage out of Sony software. Yes, it's Sony, but it works very well.

- Use a record cleaner. Spring for the NittyGritty base model, it's a whole lot better than a carbon fiber brush.

- Like any project, expect it to take twice as long as you think.

- The ProJect PhonoBox is an excellent bargain-basement preamp, but if you can spring for it, get something better like the Jolida JD9a. I use a Phonomena, but I'm still lusting after that Jolida.

- Use a decent turntable and cartridge. I know this goes w/o saying, but $100 TT isn't going to cut it.

- Make backups - there's nothing like loosing 30Gb of songs to remind you of that. Automate them for when you're not at the computer, if you have to.

And the best tip that has nothing to do with sound quality? Use a Lightscribe CD burner. If you start accumulating CD-Rs like I have, there's nothing more annoying that having to search for that one song by re-checking a bunch of hand-labeled or blank CDs in a stack. Lightscribe burns an image onto the disk after you burn the music w/o needing ink or dies - this feature is priceless.

I hope this helps a little.

Could be that in a couple of years, (that's all ), when I'm retired, I'll try some eBay dealing or that sort of thing. Meanwhile my prioritiy is to digitize the LPs, then get rid of them. My collection is small anyway, so I'll have to make do with my old Technics direct drive. The Pro-Ject sounds like a good bit though I'll be looking for used.

I'll try going recording directly to computer since my M-Audio Audiophile USB supports via analog RCA inputs. I have a copy of OEM Nero that I expect to use.

[Mr Peabody]

Musicoverall, do you have a "bluebook" for LP's or similar? In my last collection I obtained there were some Lenny Bruce LP's and I understand they could potentially be worth a pretty penny. I need to dig them back out, check the condition and titles.

Feanor, the Creek OBH-8 is a killer little preamp. I thought about some day getting one of those music servers, cd recorder with hard drive, to use as a transport and toload vinyl favs. But it's still just a thought.

[musicoverall]

Well great, moa. Glad you're doing well with it.

When you say "set up an account", what/where are you referring to? I've bought/sold stuff on eBay. Not difficult, but LPs are heavy, so that's some discouragement for selling, and a really big discouragement for buying with any prospect of reselling at a profit.

As for selling mys stuff, the question is whether I can first be bothered digitizing them. Right now I have a post asking for advice about a low cost phono preamp since I don't have one at the moment.

As Nightflier mentioned, selling the valuable ones individually is the way to go. Ebay works the best for LP's. I sell my non-valuable CD's via Amazon, as the market price is already set and it's pretty simple. Valuable CD's and LP's go up for bid on Ebay. I usually set the starting price fairly low and the demand (or lack of) demand determines the ending bid price.

So the pain then becomes buying boxes and boxing up individual LP's. I'm not aware of anyplace that buys classical LP's but there are a few places in the U.S that buy jazz collections. You might start a post to see if anyone knows of someone that buys classical collections. You may not get a bundle of money but if you're selling in bulk and you get $2 per, that's way better than throwing them away. And if I could trouble you to put a list together, I might be interested as well. No cherry picking - I'd take the lot since you mentioned that they are all in good shape.

[musicoverall]

Musicoverall, do you have a "bluebook" for LP's or similar? In my last collection I obtained there were some Lenny Bruce LP's and I understand they could potentially be worth a pretty penny. I need to dig them back out, check the condition and titles.

Feanor, the Creek OBH-8 is a killer little preamp. I thought about some day getting one of those music servers, cd recorder with hard drive, to use as a transport and toload vinyl favs. But it's still just a thought.

No, I don't. LP values are a crapshoot for me, as they are for most people. But I agree Lenny Bruce LP's should have some value. The deal with LP's for me is unless I know they're valuable, I usually sell them in lots - about, say, five at a time - like 5 Bruckner symphonies or 5 early Miles Davis'. Speaking of Miles, I have a Japanese Columbia issue of Miles only recording with Sam Rivers on tenor (the same Sam in my postscript below). Can't seem to find a value on it but I should think it would be worth at least $25 in its near mint condition.

[musicoverall]

Well great, moa. Glad you're doing well with it.

When you say "set up an account", what/where are you referring to? I've bought/sold stuff on eBay. Not difficult, but LPs are heavy, so that's some discouragement for selling, and a really big discouragement for buying with any prospect of reselling at a profit.

As for selling mys stuff, the question is whether I can first be bothered digitizing them. Right now I have a post asking for advice about a low cost phono preamp since I don't have one at the moment.

If you're just going to use it to copy LP's to CDR (or hard drive) don't spend a lot of money. The Pro-Ject mentioned below will work just fine and then when you're done with it, you won't have a lot of cash tied up in something you won't use.

On the other hand, if you can find the Jolida or Creek used on Audiogon, you might be able to resell it when you're done with it for the same amount as you paid!

Good luck! Email me if you need anything. I still think I'm going to pattern my next system after yours.