Is this cartridge overkill?

[dean_martin]

I have a Pro-Ject 1.2 turntable. I replaced the stock cart, a Sumiko Oyster, with a NOS Parasound cart with significant improvement in balance. The Oyster favored hi frequencies and sounded thin to me. But the Parasound was only $35.00 and was intended to hold me over until I had the money to get something better. Now that I'm ready to upgrade, I'm considering the Grado Reference Platinum. My table was $285. The Platinum is $270. Is this too much cart for the Pro-Ject?

I was originally thinking of spending about half the cost of the table. My other choices are the Grado Prestige Gold or the Ortofon Super OM 20, both of which I've found for around $130. Your thoughts or other recommendations will be appreciated.

[rb122]

I have a Pro-Ject 1.2 turntable. I replaced the stock cart, a Sumiko Oyster, with a NOS Parasound cart with significant improvement in balance. The Oyster favored hi frequencies and sounded thin to me. But the Parasound was only $35.00 and was intended to hold me over until I had the money to get something better. Now that I'm ready to upgrade, I'm considering the Grado Reference Platinum. My table was $285. The Platinum is $270. Is this too much cart for the Pro-Ject?

I was originally thinking of spending about half the cost of the table. My other choices are the Grado Prestige Gold or the Ortofon Super OM 20, both of which I've found for around $130. Your thoughts or other recommendations will be appreciated.

My experience is that the Pro-Ject arms are good enough to work with more expensive cartridges. I don't think this would be overkill despite the prices. If you were going to get into the stratosphere of cartridges, I'd suggest you upgrade your turntable but I think you're going to be pleased with the improvement. The Grado should sound better balanced and give you some nice bass as well! Enjoy!

[Woochifer]

I've always felt that the cartridge is every bit as important as the turntable itself. I had a 14-year old Ortofon OM body that I'd been swapping out with the 20 stylus every couple of years. Given the age of the cartridge body, I decided try something different and went with the Sumiko Black Pearl, and I've regretted it since then. By comparison, the Sumiko just sounds bland. It has a very fat sounding midrange, but that might be because its high end extension is not all that great. I'm now waiting for the stylus to wear out, so I can either go back to another OM20 or the Grado Prestige Gold.

The OM20 is a very good midlevel cartridge that I thought was too often overlooked until The Absolute Sound made it one of their best buys last year. It tends to extend the highs a bit, and the midrange might be a bit thin, but its overall linearity and coherency is excellent. And I tend to prefer my sound somewhat punchier, and you definitely get that with the OM20. I also like that the cartridge has a fairly high output, and works great with a variety of tonearms because of its lightweight and removable counterweight. But, like you I've also been looking at higher priced options for my next cartridge.

[happy ears]

Years ago I had a Dual turntable that I bought on a clearance sale. Although it came with a basic cartridge and it was not what you would call an exotic turnatable. However when I upgraded to a cartridge that cost as much as the table I was impressed with the improvements. In fact it sounded better than many turntables that cost more if a cheap cartridge was used.

It all starts with the needle and cartridge when it comes to vinyl, although the turntable and arm are also of importance, they each have a job to do. This is one area CD lovers have an advantage and do not have to spend money on.

Presently I am saving my money so that I can get a nice turntable. At least I kept all my records in good shape and boxed them up for storage. Might have been one of my smarter moves, we all get lucky now and then. So go for it and enjoy the music.

[maxg]

I would agree with the others here - go for it. Bottom line - if you want to upgrade the table in the future you will be able to take that cart with you. Hell - my cart costs 4 times what my table cost originally.

As it happens a friend of mine is going to get himself the Project 1.2 as well. To start him off properly he'll take it without a cartridge and I will lend him my spare - a Clearaudio virtuoso 2 which is at least double the cost of the table. It also has the advantage of being a high output MM cartridge and works a dream with my spare project phono box.

[jbangelfish]

I have always spent more for a cartridge than for the tt and never regretted it. The cartridge is in many ways the most important piece in the puzzle. You should be able to hear an improvement and as someone else stated, if you decided to upgrade your tt later, the cartridge would be good enough to do so. If my cartridge was still being made, it would cost at least 5 or 6 times what I paid for my tt. This might be extreme but even if I bought everything new, I'd probably spend as much or more for my cartridge as I did for my turntable and tonearm. It seems the only way to get the most out of your turntable. This little formula would probably change if you got into the 10k and above tt's.
Bill

[zappafreak]

I have always spent more for a cartridge than for the tt and never regretted it. The cartridge is in many ways the most important piece in the puzzle. You should be able to hear an improvement and as someone else stated, if you decided to upgrade your tt later, the cartridge would be good enough to do so. If my cartridge was still being made, it would cost at least 5 or 6 times what I paid for my tt. This might be extreme but even if I bought everything new, I'd probably spend as much or more for my cartridge as I did for my turntable and tonearm. It seems the only way to get the most out of your turntable. This little formula would probably change if you got into the 10k and above tt's.
Bill

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE SHELTER 901?
WHAT DO YOU USE?
THANKS,

ZF

[skeptic]

I have a Pro-Ject 1.2 turntable. I replaced the stock cart, a Sumiko Oyster, with a NOS Parasound cart with significant improvement in balance. The Oyster favored hi frequencies and sounded thin to me. But the Parasound was only $35.00 and was intended to hold me over until I had the money to get something better. Now that I'm ready to upgrade, I'm considering the Grado Reference Platinum. My table was $285. The Platinum is $270. Is this too much cart for the Pro-Ject?

I was originally thinking of spending about half the cost of the table. My other choices are the Grado Prestige Gold or the Ortofon Super OM 20, both of which I've found for around $130. Your thoughts or other recommendations will be appreciated.

There are several major considerations when buying a phonograph cartridge. The turntable, tonearm, and cartridge work together as an integrated system. It is critical to match the cartridge with the characteristics of the tonearm. An expensive cartridge demands a tonearm with well damped resonance well below audibiity, excellent bearings (jeweled are better than ball bearings), both static and dynamic balance, and good geometry. The ability to adjust vertical tracking angle is useful also. It is useless to try to install the best cartridges in lesser tonearms because you can't get the benefit of the added performance capability you paid for. As for the turntable, not only should it be able to turn at exactly the right speed with no audible wow, flutter or rumble especially if you have a wide range sound system, but it should have a well shielded motor so that hum doesn't become a factor. Some cartridges, especially low output cartridges are susceptable to audible hum from poorly shielded turntable motors. Usually, the manufacturer of the cartridge or the turntable can recommend suitable cartridges for a particular turntable model.

As for sound, the main difference between the "sonic signiture" of most cartridges is the high frequency resonant peak present with many cartridges. Some audiophiles like this, others don't. It's not onlly a matter of taste but of the other equipment you own. However, in addition to a well damped high frequency resonance and extended flat response, I personally value trackability, that is the ability of the cartridge to track heavily modulated records without distortion and at low tracking force. In this regard, I have always been pleased with Shure. I know many audiophiles do not like this line of cartridges because it doesn't have a "zippy" high end. But IMO, this can be easily compensated for if necessary through equalization.

[RGA]

I use a basic little Shure M97Xe with my NAD 533(a Rega 2 mod made by Rega). I can attest to the cartridge making a difference because the NAD came with a Goldring cart which was bloody awful. Light on finance then led me to the Shure because it supposedly is easier on the vinyl for one and tracks better...which I figured would help compensate for the fact that the NAD is no high end table and the Rega 250 arm is no high end arm.

The results are pleasing - still not quite where I would like but I need a proper stand. Right now the table is on the top shelf of one of those old 70s stereo racks - which is a bit jiggly. But I don't want to spend HUGE money on isolation platforms.

Shure makes a highly regarded Cart V15xMR which Stereophile raved about...and was one of the cheapest available - well cheap for expensive carts. http://www.shure.com/catphono_hifi.html

Most I have talked to about cartridges have said that Shure is a bit of a "SAFE" cartridge in that it tracks well, wears out your disc less, and rarely has issues of noise. At least compared to the goldring the M97Xe lives up to that.

[dean_martin]

my original plan was to go with the Ortofon OM20 because 1) I had an old Dual that came with a cart made by Ortofon that I liked and 2) the Pro-Ject tables come with Ortofon carts in Europe. I've also heard good things about Grado carts (except for the hum issue w/Rega tables) and considered the Grado Gold because I can get it for about the same price as the OM20. When my Christmas bonus was a little more than expected, I thought the Grado Reference Platinum for a little over $100 more would be interesting. It's $270 from audioadvisor with their 30-day guaranty. I can't justify going over $270 at this time - too many albums left on my wish list.

Pro-Ject and Sumiko are distributed in the US by the same company so I haven't asked them to recommend a cart thinking they would probably recommend a Sumiko cart.

The first cart I purchased was a Shure M92e for a Technics table (it's on an old Marantz table now), but I haven't really looked at their line lately.

Anyhow, I think I have a handle on my choices. Part of the fun for me is narrowing the field before I lay down the cash. Unfortunatley, living in a rural area makes it hard to audition fine audio gear. Thanks again.

[DMK]

my original plan was to go with the Ortofon OM20 because 1) I had an old Dual that came with a cart made by Ortofon that I liked and 2) the Pro-Ject tables come with Ortofon carts in Europe. I've also heard good things about Grado carts (except for the hum issue w/Rega tables) and considered the Grado Gold because I can get it for about the same price as the OM20. When my Christmas bonus was a little more than expected, I thought the Grado Reference Platinum for a little over $100 more would be interesting. It's $270 from audioadvisor with their 30-day guaranty. I can't justify going over $270 at this time - too many albums left on my wish list.

Pro-Ject and Sumiko are distributed in the US by the same company so I haven't asked them to recommend a cart thinking they would probably recommend a Sumiko cart.

The first cart I purchased was a Shure M92e for a Technics table (it's on an old Marantz table now), but I haven't really looked at their line lately.

Anyhow, I think I have a handle on my choices. Part of the fun for me is narrowing the field before I lay down the cash. Unfortunatley, living in a rural area makes it hard to audition fine audio gear. Thanks again.

Auditioning cartridges at a dealer is nearly impossible. First of all, the chances that they have the turntable you'll be using is often remote. Second, even if they do, you're still in unfamiliar territory with probably unfamiliar ancillary gear. Third, if you want to compare two different cartridges, bring your lunch while they swap! And going back and forth will be out of the question for all but the most accomodating and/or bored salesman.

Add to this the fact that playing around with different cartridges is confusing at first because nothing except speakers has as many possible sonic differences. MC's don't sound like MM's, most MM's sound different from one another as do most MC's. I don't find too many of the high frequency peaks that Skeptic mentioned. Rather, I find the "fast" cartridges are fast because of an unveiling of the midrange. Anyway, as you travel up the price structure within a certain brand, you'll start out with fairly large diffs until you hit a certain price point, around $1000. Then they get extremely subtle. I'm not saying the diffs aren't worth it to many people but they really aren't to me anymore. But the cartridges at the low price points are the most annoying - not because many of them don't sound good but because they have such magnified sonic signatures. RGA mentions the Goldring Elektra that came with his NAD. It was a lousy choice for NAD to use unless their point was to push an upgrade! The Goldring Elan that comes with the Music Hall MMF-2 is likewise a piece of crap. But the jump to the Goldring G1012 that comes with Music Hall's MMF-5 is very nice. RGA also mentions the Shure which isn't much more expensive than the Elektra but is at least 3 times better sounding. My point is you'll go bonkers as I have trying to piece this all together at once. I play around with different cartridges because it's been a guilty pleasure of mine for years. There's no set of rules among cartridges using measurements or even within the same brand. You just have to hear them over time and even then your memory is likely to fail.

P.S The Grado woodbody cartridge will make your Pro-Ject sing like a bird! An acquaintance of mine replaced his Shure (which was no slouch, but I can't recall the model - it wasn't their top of the line, though) on that same table and he's one happy camper with no further thought of upgrading. He's not only happy, he's wise!

[RGA]

DMK

My weakest point in this hobby is turntables because I grew up on tape and cd. So I'm a late comer.

If there is an upgrade to make with the NAD set-up which way should I go? It's certainly good enough so I may just wait and make a bigger move one day to the Audio Note TT1 which was rather amazing actually. Well I should not say amazing since the owner there has over 35,000LPs so you'd figure he'd like something nice to play them on.

[happy ears]

35,000 LP's is just a few more than me, well actually over 34,000 more than me. Maybe he should send some to me so that they get more often. Just tell him that they will go bad if they are not used, the notes will float right off the vinyl, or something like that.

Could not tell you about upgrades for your NAD but if it is a modded Rega 2 I would look at what is available for the Rega. Skeptic pretty well says what a turntable and it's parts must do. You could try a better cartridge such as the Shure you have mentioned, as this is where it all starts. But then you could save up for the big jump.

With all it's flaws I still like the sound of vinyl. As well I am saving my money up for a new turntable. Just wish new records did not cost so much but there are some great deals on used records.

Spin that vinyl and enjoy

[rb122]

DMK

My weakest point in this hobby is turntables because I grew up on tape and cd. So I'm a late comer.

If there is an upgrade to make with the NAD set-up which way should I go? It's certainly good enough so I may just wait and make a bigger move one day to the Audio Note TT1 which was rather amazing actually. Well I should not say amazing since the owner there has over 35,000LPs so you'd figure he'd like something nice to play them on.

I actually like the NAD table but I agree the stock cartridge was pretty bad. You've done yourself a service by replacing it with the Shure. I suppose you could upgrade cartridges further but I think your setup is good enough until you decide to go with the Audio Note. I was lucky enough to hear one of those with a Lyra Lydian something or other cartridge and it was, as you say, "amazing". I don't know what DMK might say but I think you've already come up with the best advice anyone could give you.

[Woochifer]

DMK

My weakest point in this hobby is turntables because I grew up on tape and cd. So I'm a late comer.

If there is an upgrade to make with the NAD set-up which way should I go? It's certainly good enough so I may just wait and make a bigger move one day to the Audio Note TT1 which was rather amazing actually. Well I should not say amazing since the owner there has over 35,000LPs so you'd figure he'd like something nice to play them on.

Knowing your preferences, I would suggest trying out a moving coil cartridge. That would probably give you the most dramatic difference from what the Shure delivers. Ortofon makes several high output MCs that don't require an outboard preamp. The disadvantage to MC is that the stylus cannot be swapped out when it wears out like you can with a MM cart. You typically have to have the cartridge retipped or traded out. Also, a lot of the higher end models require an outboard step up preamp.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money, you should just verify the setup on your turntable. Things like the overhang, the VTA, anti-skate and stylus force, and tonearm counterbalancing all have an immediate effect on what you hear.

[DMK]

DMK

My weakest point in this hobby is turntables because I grew up on tape and cd. So I'm a late comer.

If there is an upgrade to make with the NAD set-up which way should I go? It's certainly good enough so I may just wait and make a bigger move one day to the Audio Note TT1 which was rather amazing actually. Well I should not say amazing since the owner there has over 35,000LPs so you'd figure he'd like something nice to play them on.

35,000 LP's??? Whoa! Obviously, the call of convenience (Redbook CD) hasn't hit him. Well, his ears are all the better for it.

I recall the NAD as being a pretty decent turntable. I suppose you could upgrade the cartridge but if the Audio Note isn't too far off - say, less than a year or so away - you might just save your funds for that. I've never heard that 'table but it got a killer review in one of the Brit audio mags a couple of years ago. Good build quality - I have seen one even if I didn't get to hear it. Your Shure is a fine cartridge in its price range as well. If you could find a great deal on a Benz Glider, they do well with Rega arms and Rega-sourced arms such as what is on your NAD. But best price I've seen on those is $550. That may be something to consider after you pick up the AN. The NAD isn't the best turntable around but who owns "the best"? Not me! Well, I do consider the speakers I own to be the best I've ever heard but you own an integrated amp made by the company that makes the finest SS integrated I've ever heard - the A21A. I'm not familiar with yours but if it sounds like the A21A, you own the best!

To sum up, unless you found a deal on a higher end MC cartridge, I wouldn't take the plunge until you're ready for the AN. Quite honestly, the AN is purported to be a finer 'table than the one I currently own - the VPI HW-19 jr. I use the Rega RB300 arm but I'm considering upgrading to a Morch DP-6.

[RGA]

The Audio Note designer owner, Peter Qvortrup, at 35,000LPs+ has one of the largest if not the largest collection in the world.

The TT1 is based off of a SystemDeck II and the Arms for the units are modified co-ventures with Rega based off of the Rega 300 and 600 arms but have been re-wired with An's Silver wiring among other things.

The Dealer here has the TT1 which he claims ot be a lot better than the more expensive Linn Tables and he also carries Linn's line so that is interesting. The TT1 comes with the AN Cartridge.

Basically Audio Note makes the entire audio Chain though they basically take proven designs they like best and make them better. My speakers are based off of the very original Snell speakers, The turntables as I said are based off of the System Deck and Rega arms, their amps are their own and the probably make the most expensive and widely considered BEST integrated amp and DAC available at 90kUS and 50KUS respectively.

The A48b sounds more tube like than the A21a is a high bias Class A class A/B design and is ~70Watts. The A48 was selling for 20+ years but was less competitive as all the new tube amp companies came out making the A48B a little redundant...plus the A21a is a better unit overall at the same retail level. Sugden probably felt that people would go for the A21a on sound despite average looks to get class A. The A48B looks exactly the same as they use the same chassis but because it isn't pure class A people would likely shift to a more functional unit.

I bough the A48B because it had a phono board and was a mere $400.00Cdn used circa 1997 and retailed at around $1899.00. I compared it to the 3k MF integated and anctually preferred it with the Paradigm Stuudio 100. Very pleased with the amp and have considered going with the Sugden Headmaster as preamp because I'd like to upgrade my tube headphone amp one day.

I think I will hold off for the Audio Note because A) it sounded awesome and Audio Note front ends are designed using their speakers. Few companies make excelent stuff front to back and geared to be used as a complete system, LINN and Quad are two others that come to mind. Hell AN makes their own soldering material and glues.

Interesting side note. One of the AN designers works at Sugden and Peter Qvortrup knew Jim Sugden and was a dealer for Sugden's original products which he sold with Snell Type E, K and J speakers.

I find it kind of amusing that I came to both Sugden and Audio Note products by simnply listening and after buying all that find out these tidbits later.

People who claim to hate Solid state I often sggest to give a listen to Sugden. Incidentally both AN and Sugden use the same Transport/Dac to this day which is TDA1541Crown DAC which was in the 80s and both companies prefer the units.

I dunno I found it interesting that I gravitated to these companies which have gravitated to eachother. And the NAD is really a Rega and they too co-venture with Audio Note. Weird and wild stuff.

[Jimmy C]

...the table, cart, arm and phono pre work as a unit... I'm certainly not intimately familiar with many different set-ups, but my a friend of mine went with a Gold on a 2.1.

This combination is miles ahead of the stock cart (which I found quite lifeless). Everything across the board is better, including a big reduction in surface noise. In my mind, there is no question that the $160 was well spent.

Now - is it woth moving up to the Platinum? How much difference would there be? Not sure, but I have the Platinum on a Perspective... again, there are improvements in weight and scale along with the LPs appearing quieter yet. I can't say if it's the table, the cart, etc. Nevertheless, it sounds good.

Another poster said the arm would be good enough to appreciate the cart differences, subtle or not. I agree.


The wood body Grados have a great midband, always mellow and rich. Go for it!

[skeptic]

Shielding is very important for reducing hum induced by the motor. The best material for shielding is mu metal because it effectively shields both electrical and magnetic fields from the inside of the cartridge. IMO, wood is a very poor material for cartridges. Not only doesn't it offer any sheilding at all, it is not consistant from one unit to the next unlike metal.

One important consideration that can affect performance in regard to surface noise is stylus geometry. You don't hear much about that on these boards. The more complex geometries of Shibata and Micro Ridge types are far more expensive to manufacture and align in the stylus assembly than conical or eliptical shapes. The payoffs though are many including better tracking including less lateral angle offset error, less stress on the record groove due to greater surface contact area, and it generally sits higher in the groove not coming into contact with the smallest particles of dust in the bottom of the groove. Some manufacturers claim that the orientation of the crystaline grain structure of the diamond is important too. While I am not at all knowledgable about this aspect of styli, it is at least plausible and I would assume that with proper orientation, stylus wear rate could be reduced. I like the little brushes Shure puts on the front of the V15 Type V. It adds a gram to the force you dial up required on the tone arm but this force is strictly for the brush. The stylus force remains at a gram or less.