What about Bob...Carver

[tullymars]

I'm just getting into separates,bought a carver tfm22 2 channel amp,pretty pleased so far...but I really know nothing about carver,I mean I know the name I hear or read the newer stuff isnt as good as older models,I guess Bob Carver is no longer with the company?Can anybody give me info on what were their better models,in the way of amps/preamps,Im going to buy another soon,thinking about M1.5t,they seem to sell the fastes on ebay,if anybody has any input,I would appretiate it.

[RGA]

You want to post this on http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/bbs.html and maybe the tube forum as I believe - not 100% that his best amps were of the tube variety - but i always mix him up with Conrad Johnson.

[DcnBlu]

Bob Carver's equipment is very stable and should offer you years of listening bliss. I started with a TFM-35 amp linked to a set of Kef 103 speakers and sound was great no matter what material I played. Over the years I have stayed with him and now use his Sunfire series equipment. It's in this series that tubes are used (preamp only). For more information you can visit sunfire.com for all the details and download a pdf booklet on the entire line. As for the TFM series equipment, you can visit just about any online store and find info or links to them.

Oh, by the way, welcome to audiophile land

[Woochifer]

Bob Carver sold the company a while ago. He went on to start up Sunfire, which still makes receivers, subwoofers, and amps with his design. Carver's always taken an different approach to audio, which really polarizes people's opinions of him. On the one hand, he's regarded as an innovator who's not afraid to think outside the box, while his detractors view him as quack who sells half-baked ideas as cutting edge innovations.

His claim to fame was the original magnetic field amplifier, which was shaped like a black cube (think Borg mothership) and put out over 200 watts/channel, which back then was a very high output. The cube was small and lightweight, with no capacitors, heatsinks, or fans. Oh, and it blew up on the UL test bench, so it never got certified! A friend of mine was working at a store that carried Carver, and they got notified by the L.A. County fire marshall that because the Carver magnetic field amps were not UL listed, his store had to pull them off the shelves. No question those amps were powerful, but their sound quality was debatable and generated a lot of heated discussion. Carver made a whole series of the magnetic field amps, but wound up creating a lot of interesting hybrid designs with tubes later on.

To give you an idea of the range of products and unusual approaches that Bob Carver took, just look at some of the produces that his company put out during his tenure:

-Sonic Hologram processor (was a precursor to the DSP processors that we now take for granted)
-hybrid amps that used tubes in the preamp section
-a series of amps that were the polar opposite of the magnetic field amp series -- big, heavy, hot running, with gigantic heatsinks
-monoblock tube amps
-a CD player that used tubes in the output section
-a tuner that supposedly minimized multipath interference (I heard mixed reviews of the tuners)
-the Carver Amazing hybrid ribbon speaker, which was designed to compete with the Apogee full range ribbon speakers. Probably their best product IMO, the Amazing was one of the first panel speakers that I saw with an integrated subwoofer, and it worked surprisingly well. This was the only speaker that they made, and it turned out to be a good one.

I believe that anything that was made within the past 10 years or so was made after Bob Carver left the company. He took a lot of the same approaches with him over to Sunfire, where their products are almost as polarizing as the Carver products were (the Sunfire subs in particular have their fans and detractors)

Supposedly, Bob Carver is back with the company after they nearly went under last year, but I believe that they merely got absorbed into Sunfire. I haven't heard of anything new coming out recently with the Carver name on it.

[jt1stcav]

Bob Carver's Sunfire brand is his latest designs; if I was in the market again for used components (and I used to own alot of great Carver gear), I'd consider a Sunfire amp and/or preamp only because they're newer. Some of the older '80s Carver gear may be in need of repairs, and finding a qualified Carver repair facility may be tough, although Sunfire might service them or recommend one in your area. Just my opinion...

[RGA]

"Carver's always taken an different approach to audio, which really polarizes people's opinions of him. On the one hand, he's regarded as an innovator who's not afraid to think outside the box, while his detractors view him as quack who sells half-baked ideas as cutting edge innovations."

Sounds like my kind of audio maker At least it won't be the banal stuff that IS 95% of what is sitting on store shelves

[Woochifer]

Sounds like my kind of audio maker At least it won't be the banal stuff that IS 95% of what is sitting on store shelves

That would depend on which Carver product you're talking about. Compared to the first Carver CD player and its harsh grating sound, give me a banal Sony anyday. At least the Sony's sound is more tolerable and costs far less. His magnetic field amps might have had cool running, high powered, lightweight credentials, but I would much rather have a banal receiver/amp that can pass the UL safety tests.

The thing about Bob Carver is that while he's done things differently, that's a far cry from saying that he's always done things WELL. He's made a lot of very interesting products and taken some wildly different approaches, just compare his magnetic field amps to his tube monoblocks, or his first CD player with a later model that incorporated tubes into the output section -- could not be more polar opposite in design philosophy. Some of his products have been up there with the best of their class, for example, the Carver Amazings were legitimate high end speakers. But, Carver's also made some missteps. He's been equated at times with Bose because sometimes his products seemed to be different for difference's sake, rather than because they contributed to better sound quality; and because he marketed simple design changes, like using a switching power supply, as groundbreaking innovations.

[jt1stcav]

As far as Tullymars' original question is concerned, I also believe that Carver's older amps/preamps from the ' 80s thru the early ' 90s are indeed his finest designs (after the shareholders pretty much booted Bob out of his own company he created in ' 79, all the Carver components afterwards pretty much went downhill fast).

One of his earliest amps (M-500t) are still classics, with their huge dual power meters (and far better looking than any of his earlier Phase Linear amps IMO). The Carver's M-1.0t and M-1.5t (@ 200 and 350 watts respectively) were his finest Magnetic Field power amps as far as I'm concerned, and any of these three amps would do your system justice! I don't know anything about his solid-state and tube monoblocks, but they're closest in circuit design to his Sunfire amps, and highly regarded. Any Carver amps after the ' 94 TFM-75, TFM-55x, and TFM-35x I personally wouldn't waste my time with.

I also owned both his C-1 and C-4000 Sonic Holography preamps...I didn't care much for his Sonic Holography; too finicky to setup and the sweetspot way too critical...Bypass the Hologram circuit and use plain stereo, and both preamps (with very good MM/MC phono preamps built in) sound damn good for mid-fi components.

Stay away from his earliest CD players (transport failure is extremely high...his ' 90s 6DJ8 dual tube output model SD/A-490t was by far his best attempt at CD playback, and still command high prices on eBay. Stay away from all his cassette decks; not worth it...buy a Nakamichi, ReVox, or Tandburg.

Carver's Amazing Loudspeakers are his truely high-end attempt at planar designs; so too are his AL-III ribbons with downfiring woofers. I couldn't afford either at the time, so I bought the more affordable Magnepan MGLR1 planars...beautiful detail and imaging, just like the Carvers, at a fraction of their price.

Just my opinion is all...

[lattybuck]

My brother still has and uses a pair of Carver tube amps and one carver mono tube amp he baught in the 80's and drives 4 DCM Time Frames plus a center speaker I can't remember the name of. A sort of 5.1 or quad system or sorts for his TV and stereo. This is one very very nicely balanced/neutral sounding system. I have borrowed one of the Carver amps before to drive my Maggies just for giggles. It is very very stable as well as every bit as neutral and clean sounding as anything I have heard. My old Maggies were just as unstable as they were clean sounding to me and the Carver didn't breath hard driving them. My brother also uses a Carver preamp he baught at the same time, mid 80's or so, but I can't remember the numbers on it. This stuff is 20 years old, used almost every day on the TV/stereo in the living room and no maintenance. All that was done is the system was moved from house to house 3 times as he made more money over the years. It also went thru 3 kids growing up. Try that with most high end equipment and you will be lucky to get 10 to 15 years before you start shorting out knobs etc.
Some, not all but some, old Carver isn't up to that standard if you ask me. But some is an example of what can be done and done well, I call it classic. I am just not as impressed with the sunfire stuff, but thats me.
That just me though.
Take care all

[jt1stcav]

Is this what your brother owns? If I recall, this is just one monoblock and its power supply in a seperate chassis (for a stereo pair you'd have 4 chassis; I assume your bro is using just one extra set for mono). I'd love to own Carver's tube gear, but with all those KT88s (I think) per monoblock, tube rolling would cost a fortune! I can only assume your Maggies never sounded better with the Carvers. My MGLR1 planars were driven with a SS Carver TFM-35x, and later a McIntosh MC7200...awesome, powerful SS sonics for the money. Wish I had the opportunity to test drive my Maggies with vacuum tubes...Oh well, I've got my 8 watt 300B SET amp driving Klipsch Cornwall horn speakers now (a different sound alltogether, but one I'm very pleased with at the moment).

[O'Shag]

That would depend on which Carver product you're talking about. Compared to the first Carver CD player and its harsh grating sound, give me a banal Sony anyday.

Clearly you haven't heard the Carver SD/A 390t tube stage CD player. With 2 6DJ8 tubes in the output stage, and a very sophiticated soft EQ circuit, this CD player stands out from the rest of the Carver line of CD players. I've owned and listened to many CD players. The SD/A 390t is in my opinion, an excellent CD player. It will certainly beat the pants of most of the CD players that Sony has made. I also own the Sony SCD-777es. Although the sony tranport is better, the Carver is clearly the better player, with more detail, more natural sound, and excellent dynamics.

[DcnBlu]

Woochifer, I think you are sliding off base here . His early products had problems just like any other companies. I can remember when McIntosh had problems with there CD player back in 1987. It was that reason the I bought the Mission PCM 7000. Carver equipment, and I have 12yrs of experience with their equipment, has performed flawlessly for me. Alot of the equipment that you mention I have had, sold, ect., moving on my audio journey to the Sunfire Series. His TFM series is an excellent series hands down. I think the creater of this thread would do well by the series. I would suggest using a different preamp (hafler, Adcom, Sumo, Counterpoint) ect. I used a Counterpoint SA-1000 preamp with my TFM-35, and I have to admit, it was very appealing on the ears.

Tullmars, check out the carver TFM equipment for yourself. I don't think you will curse my name for the advice. To be honest, I would suggest a different preamp, but that is my friendly opinion. Let me know what you think of the series

[lattybuck]

Is this what your brother owns? If I recall, this is just one monoblock and its power supply in a seperate chassis (for a stereo pair you'd have 4 chassis; I assume your bro is using just one extra set for mono). I'd love to own Carver's tube gear, but with all those KT88s (I think) per monoblock, tube rolling would cost a fortune! I can only assume your Maggies never sounded better with the Carvers. My MGLR1 planars were driven with a SS Carver TFM-35x, and later a McIntosh MC7200...awesome, powerful SS sonics for the money. Wish I had the opportunity to test drive my Maggies with vacuum tubes...Oh well, I've got my 8 watt 300B SET amp driving Klipsch Cornwall horn speakers now (a different sound alltogether, but one I'm very pleased with at the moment).

The equipment had a champagn silver finish and 2 great big/oversized power meters on the two dual amp's and one on the mono amp. The preamp is pretty bare bones looking, same finish and some sonic weirdness controll I never really liked using. I know he got it around 80 or so. I was too busy getting wasted and chasing the ladies back then to pay that much attention. And yes, that stuff sounds great on the DCM time windows, and much better on the maggies before the cat wasted them as well.
Some Carver is Awsome, some not so much I think. It's like old Macintosh and Audio Research tube stuff I heard years back, some I loved the sound they created and some was just real good. They all seemed to have a personality to me, tonally mechanically or both. i.e. somoother, warmer, crisper, overheating, eating tubes, loud fans etc.
Just my thoughts.Take care

[Rycher]

I own a few Carver products from the early days which I still use to this day - 1 TFM 1.5 amplifier, 1 TFM 55 amplifier (non x for THX), and 1 pair of Carver Amazing speakers. The 1.5 and 55 amps have never needed repair and have served me well. They are a terrific sounding amp which I really can't find fault in. The Amazing's are simply just that - amazing. I use them in my main HT setup and have never needed repair. These will be my last speaker until they give up. They sound that sweet. I also have the original cube amp - a 200 watt amp the size of 10 inches square. Looking at the rear sticker I have to say it is indeed UL certified. I used it in mono form for several years pushing my subwoofer until it woofed no more. It has since been in my attic. It won't cost much to repair, but I have too many amps around the house right now and no need for another. Maybe one day. Sunfire Corp. is still handling all Carver repairs, btw.

[spacedeckman]

'nuff said.

[Rycher]

'nuff said.

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