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  1. #26
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    Sorry RGA you lose. On double blind tests no one to date has been able to tell the difference between amplifiers. And that means comparing a receiver amp to any separate amp you care to mention. Many say they can but when put to the test they all lose. When it comes to amplifiers/receivers, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. If you feel you can tell the difference, go and take the $10,000 challenge that is offered to anyone by Mr. Clark. Many have tried, all have failed. As long as a receiver or amplifier is not driven into clipping it will sound so similar that for all practical purposes there are no differences. Please don't argue with me, as I have stated, no one to date has been able to take a double blind test and tell the difference between amps.
    Actually I don't disagree with you about most results in these tests...haven taken psychology which is who should be conducting such tests i have written papers on them and conducted blind experiments -- I am well aware of the bastardized versions being propogated by the Audio Industry and the AES. I am not surprised by the reliabiltiy(in terms of getting the same results over and over). Though Martin Colloms has done DBT's for the AES where people could hear different capacitors in the amplifiers let alone different amplifiers. One can take a receiver and set everything to 2 channel flat -- listen then push the direct button -- you will hear a difference and the ONLY thing that has been done has been to remove two of hundreds of switches from the chain.

    People in DBT's can;t hear lots of things they can hear when not in such wrongheaded tests -- no one can tell the difference between a recorded audio tape versus CD either. People can;t tell the difference between a record and live music which was done in the 1930s. Until you understand the psychology of why the tests don't work beyond the testing environment then it's just another engineering argument where people don;t get the science behind the tool. I'd offer a million dollars if I had it to anyone that can tell the difference between my two cd players in a blind test to statistical significance.

    Trouble is and something you may not be aware of that most of the tests you read about are in the order (and it's invented with no reason behind it) a 10-16 trial set-up.

    To achieve statistical significance so that you PASS the test and are confirmed as hearing a difference you need 9/10 to meet the .05 level of significance. What you don;t get told is that A) small trials are very difficult to succeed in with perception testing which is why Psychologists use in the order of hundreds. now if we did it PROPERLY in audio then did you know that if you scored just 6/10 ten times in a row with an extra mistake and got 59/100 you would ALSO meet the .05 level of significance which would ALSO mean that you could tell the difference and not likely be due to chance.

    They never tell you it because they don't know it and they are too lazy and stupid to pick up the proper textbooks. So yes if you get 6/10 in their test you are a falure who can't tell the difference -- but gee if you score 59/100 then in fact you are deemed credible by science. In fact this is more credible because MORE trials reduces error and more trials is more reliable.

    Part two is that the very definition of the DBT will state that you can never ever prove that unit A sounds the same as unit B.

    You would be amazed at all the things that humans can do in tests and or can;t do in tests that simply do not happen or do happen in the real world. The DBT is a tool -- it is not at fault either and it is very very valuable in a number of applications - but it's used badly most of the time -- and it's not credible as you would like to think.

    Also the magazine hi-Fi Choice has a listening panel review componants in a level matched blind auditioning environment which is closer to normal listneing environments(the closer it is the more Valid any test is -- and validity is a word you won't get from DBT syupporters because if they understood this bit they would not be arguing it ad nauseum.

    You can read their blind level matched reviews of receivers, cables, speakers cd players. Sorry they are distinguishable.

    here is the link to hifi choice of a review of an amplifier in blind listening panels http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=913

    here is another http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1883

    What is really interesting is that they have had in the past the president and chief designers sit in in the blind sessions and they don;t always choose their onw stuff as best!!!

  2. #27
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam
    When I first auditioned some Paradigm Monitor 7's, I brought in my own cd's and listened to them powered by an Anthem (can't remember which model) amplifier. I then auditioned the 7's with a Denon 1803 receiver. To my ears, I could not tell the difference. I mean we cranked up both the Anthem and the 1803 and every single cd that I brought in sounded identical. Loudness and SQ to me sounded the same. Maybe my experiece was a little squed since the Paradigm Monitor 7's are 93db efficient and very easy to drive. But I took my test a little further, I brought in my Technics receiver at the time, model sa-dx 1050, and compared it side by side against the Denon 1803 with the 7's. Now, there was a big difference in SQ, especially when pushed hard. The Technics receiver just sucked when compared to the 1803 and the 1803 sounded the same against the Anthem amp. I ended up buying the Denon 1804 because with the 7's, more watts meant nothing in loudness or SQ. Efficient speakers meant more money in my pocket rather then invested in amplification. But don't get me wrong, regardless of my speakers, if I had money to burn, I would buy a big seperate amp whether I needed it or not, and then I would brag about it every day. I guess I would then have turned into an audio snob of some sort.
    all you learned was that not every expensive amplifier is better than cheaper ones. Anthem is overpriced and isn't all that great IMO.

    Take a Bryston home connect it to any Denon.

    Also some differences are not very large and requires a lot of listening. Speakers make the largest noticeable difference -- but the biggest differences are not always the most important differences.

  3. #28
    Forum Regular psonic's Avatar
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    To the original question "why receivers are not as good as amplifiers?" - to put in a nutshell, because they are not designed for the purpose of high quality 2ch stereo. Rather, the common receiver design seems to be geared toward maximum # of gadgets and output channels and sound modes.

    As for your DBTs, throw them in the trash. I don't know what speakers you listen to, but my Dynes easily show a difference in amps. What gear and music are you listening to and do you have experience with? Do you listen to live music? Give some expamples of amplifiers and receivers which sounded the same, not just this blanket statement DBT BS. Yes, that's right, BS - that is exactly what DBTs are. If you cannot distinguish amps in a proper setup, it is likely a hearing issue. BTW, I don't know what fool could not tell live jazz from a recording. I listened to live jazz last weekend...I have yet to hear a speaker that can duplicate that. Maybe sitting 100 rows back one could be fooled.

    Recently I have had 3 amps of same power rating (100w) driving my Dynes - Jolida JD1501RC, NAD C370 and Rotel RB-980. They all have a different sound. I pick the Jolida every time, followed by the Rotel, then NAD. I also did the 50wpc NAD 320BEE vs. my Audio Refinement Complete integrated. The Complete sounds more detailed, less harsh and more natural without sounding one bit more powerful or loud. Watts does not = sound quality. RGA is surely right about that. My little NAD 304 (35w/ch) crushed my H/K 80w/ch receiver in every possible way a few years ago. It also played louder without getting harsh or distorted, with 91db 8ohm speakers. Why would it play louder? Cleaner power, not more power.

    BTW, if you want a cheap amplifier to play music look into a Sonic Impact 10w/ch digital amp - about $35. You need a reasonably efficient speaker, but it can play music quite well, suprising in fact. Read the online reviews, many by audiophiles who have systems littered with $10000 components. So it's not that audiophiles demand something expensive - but something that sounds good.
    Dynaudio Audience 60
    Audio Refinement Complete Integrated
    Sony DVP-NC685V CD/SACD/DVD
    Audioquest Viper Interconnect
    14AWG OFC Speaker cable

    "hey dreaming it up accounts for half the fun - and time"

  4. #29
    RGA
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    Psonic

    The other thing to note about how silly the issue is is that it is very easy to deliberately alter the sound -- it is the manufaturers best interest to do so. I have no doubt that a LOT of stuff sounds pretty much the same and in a test pressure environment that people are less accurate about being able to tell the difference...but basic logic indicates that there are differences -- it is in the makers best interest to make their stuff sound unlike other stuff. The fact that in 1980 they took a Tanberg amp and a reciever and people could not tell the difference does not mean they can't today with different amplifiers.

    Take a Rega Planet and a Sony anything...do a dbt with headphones level matched -- I did.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Why not take a pair home get them in a corner -- you won't need a sub. They ran the E's J's(as center speakers) in a surround system -- No sub required.

    Where do you live? I'm very busy for the next three weeks but aftetr this practicum and course is done I am not busy.
    I went to soundhounds this weekend and heard the AN J's... but not the Spe's... but they had a few pairs of AN/K Spe's left.. i heard them there... for about 5 minutes, and realized that they are VERY good speakers, and bought a pair just for the hell of it for my secondary system. Replaced a pair of Klipsch RB-% MKII's. They're breaking in right now... a bit of sibilance right now though. We'll see. The guy i dealt with was Paul.. he said he's your guy too. The AN J's that were there definately did not have the low end of my Gershmans, but the soundstaging is phenomenal.. they disappear so well.

    At any rate, I live up in the North End.. up in the Dover area by Eagle Ridge/Eagle Point. Would love to have you over for the shootout/gettogether we are having.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  6. #31
    RGA
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    No the J will not produce subwoofer bass to subwoofer levels...and the Gershman X-1Sub combo is basically a directly made subwoofer attachment which is formidable -- better IMO than similar looking speakers and more expensive speakers from Wilson (namely the Sophia).

    Soundhounds' narrow auditioning room needs to get rid of the wall mount because they can't get the speakers back into the corners which is where the bass comes from.

    You should not get treble sibilence from the K -- that is one trait which should not result from any AN speaker -- especially not if the last speaker was any kind of Klipsch

    I can;t recall if I had treble brightness right off the bat or not - but then I ran a smooth integrated in the Sugden A48B in a well damped room. I did hear some treble thinness with the Rotel Soundhounds was using but that was only because we compared directly against the Meishu and 3.1 cd player which makes most cd players look real bad real fast.

    Yeah but did you compare the K against the B&W 705?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    On double blind tests no one to date has been able to tell the difference between amplifiers. And that means comparing a receiver amp to any separate amp you care to mention. Many say they can but when put to the test they all lose. When it comes to amplifiers/receivers, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. If you feel you can tell the difference, go and take the $10,000 challenge that is offered to anyone by Mr. Clark.
    How do you know that "no one to date has been able to tell" differences in amps with DBT's? Are you aware of and become familiar with each and every DBT that's been done?

    See RGA's response regarding the reliability with DBT's with respect to audio.

    Mr. Clark... is that the car stereo dude who will pay someone $10K if they fly out to HIS place, listen to HIS system and substitute amps, and then must score 10 out of 10? I'll tell you what; I'll pay you $10K if you fly out to my place and can discern two subtly different shades of the color blue from a color chart. The kicker is that you must use MY eyeglasses. You must score 10 corrects out of 10. Good luck.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    No the J will not produce subwoofer bass to subwoofer levels...and the Gershman X-1Sub combo is basically a directly made subwoofer attachment which is formidable -- better IMO than similar looking speakers and more expensive speakers from Wilson (namely the Sophia).

    Soundhounds' narrow auditioning room needs to get rid of the wall mount because they can't get the speakers back into the corners which is where the bass comes from.

    You should not get treble sibilence from the K -- that is one trait which should not result from any AN speaker -- especially not if the last speaker was any kind of Klipsch

    I can;t recall if I had treble brightness right off the bat or not - but then I ran a smooth integrated in the Sugden A48B in a well damped room. I did hear some treble thinness with the Rotel Soundhounds was using but that was only because we compared directly against the Meishu and 3.1 cd player which makes most cd players look real bad real fast.

    Yeah but did you compare the K against the B&W 705?
    The Gershman's did not beat the Audio Note's in the soundstaging and off-axis performance department, but for overall enjoyment they came out ahead.. seemed less brittle... my personal opinon on the AN K/Spe's so far is that they definately have some sibilance (I noticed this with the speakers at Sound Hounds too which were driven by 2 very expensive looking silver Audio Note components... integrated and a CD player).. but I also thought the narrow room might have had something to do with it... or perhaps the recording. At any rate, they still sound superb. I am driving them with a pair of Radii KT-88 Monoblocks that are very smooth sounding, so i really don't think it was them.. I even let them warm up for a good hour too.

    Actually the Klipsch RB-5 MKII is really nice and non-fatiguing speaker. It reproduces a bit of a hump in the midrange from what I can tell.. perhaps horn coloration or something from the tractix horn.. reminds me a bit of listening to Tannoy's with the dual concentric tweeter/woofer... great for Jazz. If you make it out to our shindig i'll display Email me at ddood at dood.ca so I can add you to the mailing list of the people that are coming to decide on a date and which components everyone is bringing. You can tell me if you think the K's are sibilant or not then too

    I didn't even bother with the B&K's... they did get a HUGE pair of those new 700 series B&K's with the diamond tweeter... something like $15,000 a pair... less than what i thought they might be, but they were out front with the Maggies... looked nice.. sounded nice but i didn't really sit down and listen. The only B&K's i remember liking were an older pair of those Robot looking ones.. the matrix series i think... don't remember which one or generation.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  9. #34
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    The Amp Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by musicoverall
    How do you know that "no one to date has been able to tell" differences in amps with DBT's? Are you aware of and become familiar with each and every DBT that's been done?

    See RGA's response regarding the reliability with DBT's with respect to audio.

    Mr. Clark... is that the car stereo dude who will pay someone $10K if they fly out to HIS place, listen to HIS system and substitute amps, and then must score 10 out of 10? I'll tell you what; I'll pay you $10K if you fly out to my place and can discern two subtly different shades of the color blue from a color chart. The kicker is that you must use MY eyeglasses. You must score 10 corrects out of 10. Good luck.
    If anyone had been able to reliably tell the difference between the sound of amps on blind testing it would be all over these forums with the winner bragging his a-s-s off.

    RGA is blowing lots of smoke when he says that double blind testing is faulted, it isn't.

    Incidentally, Mr Clark "the dude as you call him" offers an honest test. You can bring you own speakers if you like and compare any amplifiers you wish. Compare a Technics to a Lexicon if you think they are that different. If you wish further edification you can email Mr. Clark at a2000rich@aol.com for complete details. I am not about to do all your legwork for you since I don't believe that there is any vast difference in the sound of amplifiers and know for certain that I couldn't tell the difference even in a sighted test.

    And yes, if there were that much of a difference between the sound of amps you should be able to tell 100% of the time double blind or otherwise.

  10. #35
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corwin99
    That's quite the feat.. i'm skeptical about those numbers myself though. I've heard the speakers and I'll be in Victoria this weekend so maybe i will hear them again.

    Which leads me to this.. how bout bringing them over for a gear shootout sometime? I have already assembled a small group of "audiophiles" from Victoria, Duncan and Campbell River to come down to my place for day to hang out and talk gear and music. BBQ, beer, the whole nine I fully expect you to decline, but hey, never hurts to ask
    I would put in my Graz rebuild Scintilla, but at 231lbs a piece and a biatch to drive it wont happen. But then again, i dont need a shootout ......
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    I would put in my Graz rebuild Scintilla, but at 231lbs a piece and a biatch to drive it wont happen. But then again, i dont need a shootout ......
    Florian, would LOVE to hear the VMPS (or the Scintillas!) but the drive (and consequent swim) would likely be too much for you and the speakers.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  12. #37
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Thats true. But you are more than welcome to stop by if you ever are visiting germany-

    Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  13. #38
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    Thanks for the invite, Flo. You are also welcome to drop by here if you're ever on the Canadian west coast! I remember reading about your problems trying to stay in the US on AC.. and I am glad to see that you managed to get those VMPS speakers back out to Germany with you.

    Gershman Acoustics X-1/SW-1 / Odyssey Stratos Extreme Monoblocks / Edge Electronics Si-1m Preamplifier / Sony DVP-NC555ES Transport Modded Caps and Opamps / Pro-Ject Debut II with Shure M97xE / Carver TX-11 Tuner / SonoCable and Harmonic Tech Cabling / Monster Power HTS1000 MKII / Monster Power HTS3500 MKII / Audio Note AN-K/Spe / Radii MSKT88 Monoblocks / SonoSilence One / Akai Reference Master

  14. #39
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Thanks, i think that most people online know my life story
    I am very glad i took the VMPS, i sold one 2 days ago after only a 30 minute listening session on MalValve electronics.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    If anyone had been able to reliably tell the difference between the sound of amps on blind testing it would be all over these forums with the winner bragging his a-s-s off.

    RGA is blowing lots of smoke when he says that double blind testing is faulted, it isn't.

    Incidentally, Mr Clark "the dude as you call him" offers an honest test. You can bring you own speakers if you like and compare any amplifiers you wish. Compare a Technics to a Lexicon if you think they are that different. If you wish further edification you can email Mr. Clark at a2000rich@aol.com for complete details. I am not about to do all your legwork for you since I don't believe that there is any vast difference in the sound of amplifiers and know for certain that I couldn't tell the difference even in a sighted test.

    And yes, if there were that much of a difference between the sound of amps you should be able to tell 100% of the time double blind or otherwise.
    Why brag about passing a faulty test? Nothing to brag about! And unless I can also bring my listening room and the rest of my ancillary equipment, Mr Clark's test is designed to produce a null result. No "legwork" necessary - the guy is blowing the usual ABX smoke. I'd take the Possibility of a false positive with sighted testing over the Absolute false negative with DBT any day. Finally, there is very little in this world that deal with sensory perceptions that is 100%.

    If you can't tell the difference, then you can't. I have no problem with that and obviously you don't, either. But don't presume to know what the rest of us can and can't hear.

  16. #41
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    If anyone had been able to reliably tell the difference between the sound of amps on blind testing it would be all over these forums with the winner bragging his a-s-s off.
    That's r-e-a-l-l-y old news

    http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_data.htm


    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    If you wish further edification you can email Mr. Clark at a2000rich@aol.com for complete details.
    At last look, there were still lots of catches and restrictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    And yes, if there were that much of a difference between the sound of amps you should be able to tell 100% of the time double blind or otherwise.
    No doubt, the debate will continue. Here's a link to a recent debate between John Atkinson of Stereophile and Arnie Krueger of the pcabx.com website.

    http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

    rw

  17. #42
    RGA
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    Arny Kreueger the king opf the DBT support group ADMITTED differences do exist between just 5 power amps they selected off the shelf...and he's the guy who invented the freaking ABX comparator. It just does not hold to scrutiny in the fieldof psychology -- the top engineers agree differences do exist -- it is the people on forums not getting it and making assumptive conclusions that because people didn;t hear ti in a test it doesn;t exist in the real world -- that jump is wrong.

  18. #43
    RGA
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    If all amps sound the same why is Pioneer not advertising that their receiver sounds as good as a $50k amp...reason they cannot prove this with a DBT, reason two the scientific community and Pioneer knows the limitations and they would get sued and LOSE.

  19. #44
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by corwin99
    The Gershman's did not beat the Audio Note's in the soundstaging and off-axis performance department, but for overall enjoyment they came out ahead.. seemed less brittle... my personal opinon on the AN K/Spe's so far is that they definately have some sibilance (I noticed this with the speakers at Sound Hounds too which were driven by 2 very expensive looking silver Audio Note components... integrated and a CD player).. but I also thought the narrow room might have had something to do with it... or perhaps the recording. At any rate, they still sound superb. I am driving them with a pair of Radii KT-88 Monoblocks that are very smooth sounding, so i really don't think it was them.. I even let them warm up for a good hour too.

    Actually the Klipsch RB-5 MKII is really nice and non-fatiguing speaker. It reproduces a bit of a hump in the midrange from what I can tell.. perhaps horn coloration or something from the tractix horn.. reminds me a bit of listening to Tannoy's with the dual concentric tweeter/woofer... great for Jazz. If you make it out to our shindig i'll display Email me at ddood at dood.ca so I can add you to the mailing list of the people that are coming to decide on a date and which components everyone is bringing. You can tell me if you think the K's are sibilant or not then too

    I didn't even bother with the B&K's... they did get a HUGE pair of those new 700 series B&K's with the diamond tweeter... something like $15,000 a pair... less than what i thought they might be, but they were out front with the Maggies... looked nice.. sounded nice but i didn't really sit down and listen. The only B&K's i remember liking were an older pair of those Robot looking ones.. the matrix series i think... don't remember which one or generation.

    I suppose it's a matter of taste my reason for not buying the X1 was because I found it subdued and restrained in the treble - Though I still say it's one of the best $1500.00cdn speakers around because I would prefer a speaker to err this side than err on the bright side.

    Just goes to show you that not everyone hears it the same way. The Maggies are great speakers for the money -- I may consider them as a second system for home theater that does justice to music -- but I'd want to listen longer because I wasn;t convinced by the ribbons totally -- never have really been thrilled with ribbons...but Maggie's 1.6 was better than I heard from others over the years including the SMG which to be frank stunk IMO.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    ...but I'd want to listen longer because I wasn;t convinced by the ribbons totally -- never have really been thrilled with ribbons...but Maggie's 1.6 was better than I heard from others over the years including the SMG which to be frank stunk IMO.
    FYI, the 1.6s do not have the ribbon tweeters as found on the 3.6s and the 20.1s.

    rw

  21. #46
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    In my humble opinion, if you cant tell the difference between amps than your speakers are not good enough to show the difference. I can change an interconnet and the Scintila will tell you. Also if you switch AMPs you hear a huge difference.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

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    The Professionals Can't Tell The Difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    In my humble opinion, if you cant tell the difference between amps than your speakers are not good enough to show the difference. I can change an interconnet and the Scintila will tell you. Also if you switch AMPs you hear a huge difference.

    My speakers are excellent, thank you. Extensive listening tests were done by both Julian Hirsh of Hirsh/Houck Labs and also Ian G. Masters regarding the sound of amps. Neither of these professionals or the people doing the listening tests could detect any difference between the sound of numerous amps tested. I seriously doubt that your listening conditions could have been anywhere near as controlled nor do you have the expertise that these people had. After listening to numerous amps it was concluded, as I had stated, that no differences could be discerned. If you know more than these people more power to you.

  23. #48
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    My speakers are excellent, thank you. Extensive listening tests were done by both Julian Hirsh of Hirsh/Houck Labs and also Ian G. Masters regarding the sound of amps. Neither of these professionals or the people doing the listening tests could detect any difference between the sound of numerous amps tested. I seriously doubt that your listening conditions could have been anywhere near as controlled nor do you have the expertise that these people had. After listening to numerous amps it was concluded, as I had stated, that no differences could be discerned. If you know more than these people more power to you.
    Well if you are so convinced why bother to get beaten on in a thread? Seems like you need other people to tell you whats right and what not. I have "big" friends in the industry too that will eat your friends....but thats like kindergarden. Have fun listening to what others tell you, i listen to the truth. AMPS do sound different, and if you would own a Scintilla or a speaker is similar performance you would hear it too.

    To put more fuel in the fire...

    " Hitachi 65S700 Yamaha RX-V1400 Speakerlab SL7's M&K 12" Sub Infinity Center Cambridge In Wall Surrounds JVC DV-SA75 DVD" <----with that system you wont hear the difference between Norah Jones and Joe Cocker.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  24. #49
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    133

    Your Diatribe Is Not Appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Well if you are so convinced why bother to get beaten on in a thread? Seems like you need other people to tell you whats right and what not. I have "big" friends in the industry too that will eat your friends....but thats like kindergarden. Have fun listening to what others tell you, i listen to the truth. AMPS do sound different, and if you would own a Scintilla or a speaker is similar performance you would hear it too.

    To put more fuel in the fire...

    " Hitachi 65S700 Yamaha RX-V1400 Speakerlab SL7's M&K 12" Sub Infinity Center Cambridge In Wall Surrounds JVC DV-SA75 DVD" <----with that system you wont hear the difference between Norah Jones and Joe Cocker.
    Incidentally, I seriously doubt that you have ever heard a Speakerlab SL7 speaker. Interesting that you could cut down a speaker that you have never even listened to.

  25. #50
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    727

    I 100% agree

    Quote Originally Posted by ruadmaa
    Incidentally, I seriously doubt that you have ever heard a Speakerlab SL7 speaker. Interesting that you could cut down a speaker that you have never even listened to.
    One should not pass judgment on or against a component they haven't listened to. Furthermore, one should not make claims of sonic differences or lack thereof unless they've listened to all the components within the scope of their claim.

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