Do I need more Juice?

[PAOGORMAN2001]

I just bought B&W CM1 speakers and am runnig them with a NAD C352 80watt integrated amp for two channel cd music only. I read in a review that a 75 watt minimun was the recomended wattage. I play at low to mid volume ( being in a condo) so I was wondering if It would be wise to purchase a NAD c272 150 watt power amp and use my C352 as a pre to give me better sound at the lower volume range which is the normal playing condition. Would there be a noticeable quality increase in sound and detail to justify the purchase in your opinions?/

Thanks Pogo

[NickWH]

Probably not. It's a waste of money in my opinion. Manufacturer's recommended amp power is between 30 and 100 watts. The CM1's are somewhat inefficient at 84dB. But the C352 is rated for 80 watts continuous and 115 watts peak into 8 ohms. This should be plenty.

You'd be better served by upgrading the preamp section.

[PeruvianSkies]

I just bought B&W CM1 speakers and am runnig them with a NAD C352 80watt integrated amp for two channel cd music only. I read in a review that a 75 watt minimun was the recomended wattage. I play at low to mid volume ( being in a condo) so I was wondering if It would be wise to purchase a NAD c272 150 watt power amp and use my C352 as a pre to give me better sound at the lower volume range which is the normal playing condition. Would there be a noticeable quality increase in sound and detail to justify the purchase in your opinions?/

Thanks Pogo

I think you might be surprised at how much delivering good power to those speakers can make, now the question at hand is whether that increase is worth the price of the NAD...well, that's going to be hard for most of us to answer since it's your money and your ears that need to come to that conclusion. I would see if there is a way that you can demo some stuff from a dealer in your setup or if you know anyone in your area that is willing to let you drive those speakers with a power amp.

I was a NAD C372 owner for about a year and a half and thought it was "ok" have you tried or thought about other amp manufacturers? If I had to do it all over again I probably wouldn't have bought my NAD C372, which I ended up selling for $600.

[jim1961]

A lot here depends on what listening levels you are accustomed to. If your a top volume kind of guy, then your probably eating up your dynamic range at high volume levels. Keep in mind that peaks can run 10db above the average level. In a 80watt unit, when you surpass a 8watt average, you could start to compress your peaks. If your speakers are 84db efficient, as another poster suggested, 8 watts would give you about 92.5 db. Thats not very loud. Granted, you probably wont notice this compression until somewhat higher power levels, but the theory is sound.

Their are also better watts than a NAD is going to offer. That is, a better unit may give more transparency, dynamics, and soundstaging.

So unless money is no object, with power amps, you usually have to choose between a very high quality sound with lower wattage , or lots of watts, but at reduced quality. To have both is possible, but at a high cost

[kexodusc]

The need for more power is mostly dependent on your listening levels. If you're speakers have some big impedance swings, more current/power can help.
If you listen in the low 80's dB range (average volume) with musical peaks toping 90 dB, that 80 watt integrated is probably as low as you'd want to go with those speakers. More power probably isn't going to hurt. That said, you've got plenty of juice there to drive those speakers about as loud as most condo's I've been in would allow. 90+ dB is more than enough to piss off your neighbors.

Unless you're room is rather large tend to agree with NickWH. You're unlikely to hear a noticeable sound quality difference at all but the loudest levels just by adding a beefier amp. And adding a higher quality amp would be rather expensive, and still might not make things much better, if at all.

Most speakers I've heard don't really sound better at lower volumes just because an amp has more power capability, but there are some speakers that break the trend - they aren't the most amplifier friendly. Large current draws and low sensitivity speakers aren't a good combo for low wattage amps. As you increase the volume you could be taxing your amplifier and of course your speaker isn't going to perform as well if the amp runs out of current.

Hard to say if that's happening here. 80 watts is still quite a bit of power. I don't have experience with those speakers - might want to ask some other B&W owners. Hopefully you can test an amplifier out before you commit to buying one. I'd hate to drop a bunch of cash on more power only to find out it doesn't make a difference at all, or only made a difference at volumes you never play at anyway.

[dogorman]

I notice that no one has mentioned the subject of "headroom", yet. A bigger amp will provide better sound even if you don't ask for all that power at once in your condo, because the bigger amp will have more power in reserve. So all other things equal, yes, I think you'd probably hear better sound with a bigger amp. The trouble is that you're planning to use your existing integrated as your preamp, and that's going to cancel out any gain in sound quality you might get from the bigger amp, in my humble opinion. People vary on this, but I personally would never use an integrated as a pre unless it was some crazy boutique integrated by someone way up the food-chain from your NAD. I'd consider using one as a power amp, if I liked the sound, but preamps are the core of a system built around separates and any sonic limitations there will occlude everything else.

An opinion worth exactly what you paid for it, no doubt, but I had to reply -- if only because we O'Gorman's have to stick together! :-)

[jim1961]

I notice that no one has mentioned the subject of "headroom", yet. we

I did, but not as such.

[kexodusc]

I did, but not as such.

Yeah, it's implied in most of the posts.

Headroom by itself doesn't contribute to sound quality unless it's taken advantage of. Or put differently, if his current amp still has plenty of headroom at his listening levels, adding more isn't likely to be noticeable.
There's a saying though - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Power is no exception.

PAOGORMAN2001 - are you unhappy with the way things sound right now? Do you feel you're losing dynamics, or hearing distortion?

[dogorman]

I'm afraid the headroom comment (misplaced, retracted for the record) obscured my larger concern -- which is that I'm not sure you'll like the sound of a system in which an NAD integrated amp being used as a dedicated preamp. Integrated amps with "Pre-out / Main-in" loops are, in my limited experience, better suited (and more often used) as dedicated power amps, since the preamplification of the signal is such a hand-embroidered invitation to add distortion. I mean, if you make a small mistake before you amplify, you'll hear a much bigger mistake through the speakers, n'est-ce pas?

[PAOGORMAN2001]

Thanks everyone for feedback. I am going to go with the NAD c162 Pre and a C272 power amp. I'll report back once I have received the equipment and given it a test run
Thanks again

Pete