• 12-10-2005, 07:09 AM
    Mr Peabody
    Well, I switched and love it
    I took the Krell 500i out of my main system with it's 250 wpc of seemingly endless power and all the strengths that you get with Krell and replaced it with Conrad Johnson separates, the PV14 preamp and MV60 power amp with a power rating of 55 wpc. We tend to use adjectives to try and convey what we experience, like "organic" was thrown around by Audio Note users and reviewers and I could only imagine what it meant until I experienced it and "organic" seemed to describe it very well, although I had a pretty good idea what people were trying to say by "musical" I hadn't actually experienced the definitive expression until I put the Conrad Johnson in my system. If you are familiar with what micro and macro dynamics are, this is what the CJ does better than any equipment I have ever heard. The CJ gear I have is definitely not "classic" tube sounding, nor will I belittle it by saying it sounds like solid state. It cannot reach down to those lower bass octaves like my Krell could but the CJ doesn't sound rolled off. I have a hand full of CD's that I know went extremely low and in comparison on the 2 systems I could tell. Actually, I was very impressed that the CJ doesn't sound rolled off at either end of the frequency response. Cymbals exhibit very good hang time and natural decay. The CJ is able to grab the bass line and deliver it without flab or confusion. The CJ breathes emotion or soul into the performance and I found that a big positive. The CJ is able to bring out rhythyms and minor accompaniment I hadn't noticed before, it makes it more part of the performance. Where the Krell seemed to take all the detail and convey everything across the soundstage evenly, the CJ puts the sounds in place, leaving background instruments in the background or I guess a better way to say it is the CJ soundstage has great depth. "Depth" is another word I only guessed at until hearing the CJ. On the soundtrack of The Choir the depth and spacial cues were amazing, it was like sitting in front of a large portal to the real performance. Another amazing thing the CJ does, and this is part of the macro/micro thing, it's able to give you a sense of distinct and separate voices in choir or background singers, you are able to get a since of separate horns or variations between horns while listening to entire horn sections.

    I found the Conrad Johnson gear amazing and an excellent value. I hate to use value, it sometimes incenuates cheap but I mean it in the most positive way because the Conrad Johnson is some of the most amazing gear I've heard at any price.

    It was interesting that when I added the CJ to my signature it changed every signature on previous posts. I'm not sure I like that but maybe it was not meant for us to list equipment there.
  • 12-12-2005, 12:03 PM
    cjpremierfour
    Well Put, Mr. Peabody

    I have had my CJ Premier Four for over 10 years and I can not say enough good things about it. I didn't like the specs on my amp when I first bought it but it throws out a large deep sound stage that I didn't know was even possible after using large solid state units. Conrad & Johnson seems to make a deep sound stage the priority on their amps instead of trying to make them stable at 2 ohms. I would never consider going back to solid state after having the CJ. I really can't add anything, that's how I felt when I replaced mind.

    Hope you enjoy it!
  • 12-12-2005, 03:36 PM
    topspeed
    Congrats Mr. P! There's a reason why CJ has been held in such high regard all these years and it sounds like you've discovered it. I can imagine tubes being a match made in heaven with your Danes. Now it's time to pull out all of your favorite tunes and enjoy the improvements!

    Have fun!
  • 12-12-2005, 04:58 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    If you are familiar with what micro and macro dynamics are, this is what the CJ does better than any equipment I have ever heard. The CJ gear I have is definitely not "classic" tube sounding, nor will I belittle it by saying it sounds like solid state...
    Congratulations. I feel the same way about my VTL MB-450s. I'm not moved by any of the new crop of "digital" amps yet for the same reasons. Real music doesn't sound sterile to me.

    rw
  • 12-13-2005, 02:23 AM
    theaudiohobby
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Congratulations. I feel the same way about my VTL MB-450s. I'm not moved by any of the new crop of "digital" amps yet for the same reasons. Real music doesn't sound sterile to me.

    rw
    Hmm.. If I take a selection of amplifiers (selected for similarity of voicing, performance being the better word) and disguise their identity, will you be able to tell which is the tube, analog SS or Digital amplifer. :eek:? Real music simply sounds like real music, it does not sound tubey, SS or digital or whatever. My amplifier is not "digital", it is digital and simply one of the best amplifiers out there for driving Quad Electrostatics. Of course tastes vary....

    Peabody, congratulations on your new amplifier....
  • 12-13-2005, 01:18 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    Hmm.. If I take a selection of amplifiers (selected for similarity of voicing, performance being the better word) and disguise their identity, will you be able to tell which is the tube, analog SS or Digital amplifer. :eek:?
    What is your definition of voicing? Tell me of a digital amp that is voiced like a VTL, Joule Electra, Manley or Conrad-Johnson.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    Real music simply sounds like real music, it does not sound tubey, SS or digital or whatever.
    No debate there.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by theaudiohobby
    My amplifier is not "digital", it is digital...
    I think something got lost in the translation here. :)

    While I don't profess to have heard all the new kids on the block, the ones I've heard are very lean through the lower midrange and lack harmonic integrity (as compared with the best tubes) using voice and acoustical instruments as the reference. They just don't sound as compelling to me. I haven't heard the Sharp, but Fremer's comments in Stereophile seem similar to my observations regarding the units I have heard. I would very much like to find a SS unit to my liking that doesn't need to have its 20 tubes replaced every four years! Actually, I probably have but cannot afford the $25k price of the ASR Emitter with the battery powered input stage.

    I'm glad you're happy with yours. To each his own.

    rw
  • 12-13-2005, 02:08 PM
    theaudiohobby
    Maybe something got lost in translation, I was simply saying that the Sharp is actually SD modulated amplifier, so it is a digital amplifier. As you say to each his own, By the way, the top model costs a cool USD17.5K, which is not chicken change, so Sharp must be pretty happy and confident of their product.

    Quote:
    the ones I've heard are very lean through the lower midrange and lack harmonic integrity (as compared with the best tubes) using voice and acoustical instruments as the reference.
    Well, I will have to know which ones(and that will certainly vary from region to region) and hear what the best tubes do to confirm that. Of the respected European brands that I have heard, none has driven any of the Quads as convincingly as the Sharp, the harmonic ease and top-to-bottom coherence and naturalness of its presentation is top-notch. As I mention here frequently, acoustic jazz and various forms of orchestral music are my reference.

    Thanks, I raised my eyebrows when I read the word sterile. enjoy the VTLs.
  • 12-13-2005, 05:27 PM
    Mr Peabody
    That would be an interesting challenge, I think I could do it.

    I also don't think it's accurate to say "music sounds like music". When I listen to a boombox I can tell a sax from a trumpet but it's far from being a close reproduction of what the original probably sounded like. The Krell and Conrad Johnson present 2 different aspects of a recording with some middle ground. The Krell will give the impact of live instruments but it misses something that fools you into believing they are there with you, the CJ lacks some of the impact and has a less aggressive presentation yet there is a presence that can fool my brain into feeling I'm at the performance. Which is more accurate is subjective in my opinion because how can the CJ be accurate when it doesn't make a kick drum fast and tight like most kick drums I've experienced, and how can Krell be totally accurate when it lacks the ability to allow one to believe their at the performance. If it was possible to merge these two characteristics into one amp, then we would have the perfect amp. The difference between them is very difficult to put into words. Like the Krell gives brass the bite it should have and drums are the best I've ever heard and the closest to reproducing the effects of live music yet you know it's artificial. The CJ takes that artificial feel away yet lacks the speed and impact of what a live instrument would do.

    I heard a Linn Class T digital switching amp and it had a distinct sonic signature. I've also heard some T+A amps that use digital somewhere and I couldn't tell they had any digital technology. They actually sounded very good.

    I can sit and find fault with my tube set up when comparing to my former solid state but after experiencing the CJ I can't go back. And you can't stereotype tube either, I tried some ARC before the CJ and I found it very distasteful.
  • 12-14-2005, 12:03 AM
    theaudiohobby
    Interesting comments...
    Interesting comments, Mr. Peabody,

    When I said 'real music sound like real music', I was referrng to the sound of an acoustic performance (and I think that is what e-stat) understood as compared to it reproduction through any sort of gear. I fully appreciate your comments about the stereotyping, even in tubey world, there are various topologies and each topology has its advocates, I can picture the differences between the CJ and Krell from your comments and I can see that you appreciate what the CJ adds to the mix, it seems to add a sense of naturalness to the proceedings, which you appreciate, I would. Comments about accuracy are tricky and my preferences have changed over time, I simply want a system that I can consistently enjoy across the music genres I listen to. With my current amplifier, if the magic is captured on the recording, you will hear it. By the way, listen to Midnight Sugar by the Tsuyoshi Yamamoto trio, an utterly natural sounding recording. It is superb stuff..
  • 12-14-2005, 08:13 PM
    Mr Peabody
    OK, I'm with you. Especially with the changing over time. My emphasis on SPL and impact has taken a back seat to a more natural and enjoyable presentation. Some day I wouldn't mind having a more powerful tube amp.
  • 12-14-2005, 08:40 PM
    Florian
    Well it looks like that this site and some of its members are taking a turn towards music and not advertising and the best bang for the buck stuff anymore. Its slow, but its getting there. Personally i only like the Conrad Johnson models below the 10. But nonetheless are they great and a start in the right direction. Keep it up guys! :)
  • 12-15-2005, 05:08 AM
    Resident Loser
    Holy bejeebus...
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Florian
    Well it looks like that this site and some of its members are taking a turn towards music and not advertising and the best bang for the buck stuff anymore. Its slow, but its getting there. Personally i only like the Conrad Johnson models below the 10. But nonetheless are they great and a start in the right direction. Keep it up guys! :)
    ...could you be any more of a condescending prig?

    jimHJJ(...my bet's on yes...)
  • 12-15-2005, 05:11 AM
    Florian
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Resident Loser
    ...could you be any more of a condescending prig?

    jimHJJ(...my bet's on yes...)
    Oh yes, much much more. But once you guys find out the rest of the secret to good music reprdoduction i will pat you on the shoulder. :D
  • 12-15-2005, 06:25 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Florian
    Oh yes, much much more. But once you guys find out the rest of the secret to good music reprdoduction i will pat you on the shoulder. :D
    My shoulders are a little sore from carrying the world on my back for so long. Could I have that pat on my head instead?
  • 12-15-2005, 06:56 AM
    Florian
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GMichael
    My shoulders are a little sore from carrying the world on my back for so long. Could I have that pat on my head instead?
    Anything for you my friend !
  • 12-15-2005, 06:58 AM
    GMichael
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Florian
    Anything for you my friend !
    I can't even get my wife to say that anymore. :p
  • 12-29-2005, 06:38 AM
    Mr Peabody
    I've got a few more hours logged in listening to the CJ now and I have to say I like it more and more. Last night I was in a Classic Rock mood. I listened to Heart's first Greatest Hits album, the one that was 2 vinyl albums that fit on one CD. It was interesting to hear the difference in production on various songs. At first I was a little disappointed because the first song, Barracuda, didn't sound as I had heard before, the kick drum was somewhat buried. As the album went on though other songs were good so it must be how the CJ interpretted the production. Dire Straits first album was very good. The one that blew me away and puts all doubts to rest as to if tubes can rock was Rush's Moving Pictures. I remember this album as average at best on my Krell but through the CJ this album was amazing. Getty's bass line was easy to follow and the various textures and notes were there, Pert's drums and percussion was all there and just amazing. Why this album was so amazing on the CJ and just average on Krell, I'm not sure. Maybe the Krell had too much control and the bass lines came through too thin. Maybe the way Krell puts most sounds out evenly rather than leaving subtlties remain subtle or maybe it's that Moving Pictures is full of the micro and macro dynamics that CJ is king, in my book. Radio has pretty much burnt me out on Moving Pictures but I found my ears glued to each song as if I was hearing them for the first time.
  • 01-01-2006, 09:20 PM
    spacedeckman
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I took the Krell 500i out of my main system with it's 250 wpc of seemingly endless power and all the strengths that you get with Krell and replaced it with Conrad Johnson separates, the PV14 preamp and MV60 power amp with a power rating of 55 wpc. We tend to use adjectives to try and convey what we experience, like "organic" was thrown around by Audio Note users and reviewers and I could only imagine what it meant until I experienced it and "organic" seemed to describe it very well, although I had a pretty good idea what people were trying to say by "musical" I hadn't actually experienced the definitive expression until I put the Conrad Johnson in my system. If you are familiar with what micro and macro dynamics are, this is what the CJ does better than any equipment I have ever heard. The CJ gear I have is definitely not "classic" tube sounding, nor will I belittle it by saying it sounds like solid state. It cannot reach down to those lower bass octaves like my Krell could but the CJ doesn't sound rolled off. I have a hand full of CD's that I know went extremely low and in comparison on the 2 systems I could tell. Actually, I was very impressed that the CJ doesn't sound rolled off at either end of the frequency response. Cymbals exhibit very good hang time and natural decay. The CJ is able to grab the bass line and deliver it without flab or confusion. The CJ breathes emotion or soul into the performance and I found that a big positive. The CJ is able to bring out rhythyms and minor accompaniment I hadn't noticed before, it makes it more part of the performance. Where the Krell seemed to take all the detail and convey everything across the soundstage evenly, the CJ puts the sounds in place, leaving background instruments in the background or I guess a better way to say it is the CJ soundstage has great depth. "Depth" is another word I only guessed at until hearing the CJ. On the soundtrack of The Choir the depth and spacial cues were amazing, it was like sitting in front of a large portal to the real performance. Another amazing thing the CJ does, and this is part of the macro/micro thing, it's able to give you a sense of distinct and separate voices in choir or background singers, you are able to get a since of separate horns or variations between horns while listening to entire horn sections.

    I found the Conrad Johnson gear amazing and an excellent value. I hate to use value, it sometimes incenuates cheap but I mean it in the most positive way because the Conrad Johnson is some of the most amazing gear I've heard at any price.

    It was interesting that when I added the CJ to my signature it changed every signature on previous posts. I'm not sure I like that but maybe it was not meant for us to list equipment there.
    Nice. My boss is all CJ. I told him to remember me in his will. I've been in and out of tubes over the past 15 years, but have seriously been in for the past 6. Running Audioprism system, but have a Cary SLP88 preamp home for audition. I really like 6SN7s. A bit dark, but detailed and muscular. I like it.