Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 131
  1. #101
    300A
    Guest

    Both ways

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckman
    So you smoke joints when listening to music? Otherwise how would you know.
    Last time I smoked was May 24, 2002 at about 2 pm.

    I just think that if you are listening to a tube amp and expect it to sound better than solid state it will.[/QUOTE]

    I would think the opposite would be true too. There are alot of both types of amps that sound nasty.

  2. #102
    DMK
    DMK is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    332
    I just think that if you are listening to a tube amp and expect it to sound better than solid state it will.[/QUOTE]

    Expectations can account for a lot when it comes to amplifier sonics, no question about it. But the first time I heard a tube amp, I expected it to sound worse. I WANTED it to sound worse. But it was better. After some further searching, I found a few tube amps that sounded clearly superior to anything I'd ever heard that used transistors.

  3. #103
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106
    I just think that if you are listening to a tube amp and expect it to sound better than solid state it will.
    .


    That is an idiotic POV as related to audio replay. Are there any experienced enthusiasts on this board that have fallen prey to this? I'm sorry but how in the hell does this happen? I understand how expectations can cloud your judgment but if you have a blind date with someone you presume to be beautiful and when you met they are something less than expected wouldn't the expectations be outvoted by the processing of factual information? And while not as important or dramatic as related to our audio experience, the process's used would be the same.

    How's this for expectations. I had considered making the jump from EL34 PP to 300b/2a3/45 SET for two years before doing so. There were a number of compatibility and preference issues that needed to be sorted out first as well as educating myself on SET. The biggest question? Was this for me and would it satisfy me as it had many of my on-line contacts. I needed to ask myself many questions before proceeding. Eventually, the decision was made and the manufacturer chosen, and then I had to wait three [3] months while he built it [it was a custom project]. So we're talking a lot of wait time.

    The expectations were extremely high when I opened the shipping crate and looked inside, and I wasn't the least disappointed... with the build quality or aesthetics - fantastic! But what did it sound like? Honestly, I wasnít terribly impressed by those initials impressions. Sure, I'd forgot to bias the OPTs and the image was pulled to one side and but even when corrected I wasn't "blown away". This BTW is all documented in my "listening notes" on another forum. This wasn't my first SET experience but it was the first time I'd used one in my system. And it took awhile to appreciate exactly what this amp, and SET, was all about. There was the burn in factor and the fine-tuning of tubes / supporting devices involved that played a vital role in getting the amp to sound itís best but the biggest hurdle was me. I needed to re-learn exactly what I wanted from replay, and the amp helped me do that. I realized, even more so that I didn't live for "pyrotechnics". Instead, nuance and delicacy were what moved me, and the SET did more of this than PP. Forget SS. And Iíll admit, I do have a bias against SS but that didnít stop me from recognizing the very musical qualities in a friendís system what uses a highly tweaked McCormick dna-1. I will never argue the benefits of one type over another, that is your choice. And if you're happy that's what matters. If our associations are not connected by experience we have little relevant info to share.

    For those of you that really think you can't be trusted to make an informed decision I feel for you. How do you make it through your day? You must have a house filled with remorseful purchases to haunt you.

    MikE

  4. #104
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106

    Dank

    Always good to hear from you, hope you and your's are well. I'm not saying I've not benefited from those that share another POV. I have and I'd like to think I'm open to learning. I'm able to recognize a well presented argument, and many of the Objectivists are good at it. And I also believe that any forum benefits from having all opinions presented. That I feel is a weakness of AA. There is too much congratulating and not enough fresh viewpoints. Much of the debate entails arguing the finer points of our shared passion, not the questioning of it's validity.

    I'm checking out the new Beatles remix [or unmix] "Naked" album myself. Happy Holidays!

    MikE

  5. #105
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583
    Quote Originally Posted by FLZapped
    Okay, but then I also think if you go look at the specs and compare the two, you'll probably finds the 200 watt amp isn't rated for the same load range as the 100 watt amp, correct?

    -Bruce
    Both were rated into 4 ohms, but the McCormack was rated into 2 ohms.

  6. #106
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583

    explain this please.

    Quote Originally Posted by FLZapped
    He was saying his 100 watt amp put out more current than his 200 watt amp originally, so I was trying to get a clarification......besides he fact that each running at the same power output would produce the same current flow into the same load impedance.

    -Bruce
    MacIntosh makes an amp that puts out them same power into 8,4, and 2 ohm loads. The difference,voltage and current output. Less voltage and more current into lower impedance loads, yet same power.

  7. #107
    300A
    Guest

    final thoughts

    Some final thoughts since this is the last page.

    1) I saw alot of different opinions, I think some more valid than others. I think most here are totally sincere in their beliefs.

    2) I find it difficult to understand how so many believe that turntable rumble, tube distortions, 25-70db down, etc are obviously heard in a system, yet some major distortions from electrolytic capacitors isn't? We are only talking about distortions, which are not part of the music, of 1/10th to 1/20 down from the music, but it isn't heard according to DBT testing? Quite obviously, something is seriously wrong with the testing in my opinion. As a suggestion, when listening at a store, ask someone who you don't know what there opinion is between two components you have already listened too. See if the differences are in your head or true. Make sure he doesn't know your opinion beforehand though.

    3) Frankly, both tube and SS amps have good points and poor points. I think tube amps have more substantial good points.

    4) Advances in technology will obsolete current Tube and SS products, older types too, and is already doing so.

  8. #108
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    240
    Quote Originally Posted by Mwalsdor_cscc_edu
    .


    That is an idiotic POV as related to audio replay. Are there any experienced enthusiasts on this board that have fallen prey to this? I'm sorry but how in the hell does this happen? I understand how expectations can cloud your judgment but if you have a blind date with someone you presume to be beautiful and when you met they are something less than expected wouldn't the expectations be outvoted by the processing of factual information? And while not as important or dramatic as related to our audio experience, the process's used would be the same.



    For those of you that really think you can't be trusted to make an informed decision I feel for you. How do you make it through your day? You must have a house filled with remorseful purchases to haunt you.

    MikE
    Idiotic point of view?
    An informed decision?
    Did I strike a nerve?
    Should I go out and spend $2000 on a tube amp and read discussion forums on why tube amps are so great to make me feel better about my purchases?

  9. #109
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by 300A
    Read an article and checked out the depth of tube and SS amps. Used a soundstage mapping recording. Interesting the SS amps didn't have near the accurate depth the tube amps did, althought there was some overlapping. And how does distortion produce the sound reflections, little nuisances in a recording? Distortion obviously doesn't do it. And SS doesn't do it.

    So you smoke joints when listening to music? Otherwise how would you know.

    Of course that article was under DBT conditions, right?
    No? What do you mean? Then it is worthless, has no meaning, zero. End of story.
    mtrycrafts

  10. #110
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by 300A
    By the way, me, my friends, everyone I know who have tested have come to the same conclusion. Electrolytic capacitors alter the sound alot. That is my data. If you don't like it, too bad. Prove to me that DBT tests are factual, proof.
    Hearsay anecdote. Worthless, has no meaning. Sighted listening for audible differences is junk science. Get a grip.

    Proof of DBT? You cannot handle the truth. You had the citations and yet you refuse to read them.

    Please keep following Walt Jung, he will lead you down the rabit hole.
    mtrycrafts

  11. #111
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by 300A
    Having listened to alot of both the best SS and tube components, the SS components always seem to be veiled and some inner detail is missing when compared to the good tube components.

    To me, tubes give a sense of realism, not only with accurate timbre, but the inner detail, that extra dimension that SS just doesn't do.
    But you are biased. How would you know which sounded what? No idea, zero. Sheer speculation on your part. Garbage in, garbage out.
    mtrycrafts

  12. #112
    Forum Regular FLZapped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by bturk667
    Both were rated into 4 ohms, but the McCormack was rated into 2 ohms.

    Okay, that would explain it then.....-Bruce

  13. #113
    Forum Regular FLZapped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    740
    Quote Originally Posted by bturk667
    MacIntosh makes an amp that puts out them same power into 8,4, and 2 ohm loads. The difference,voltage and current output. Less voltage and more current into lower impedance loads, yet same power.

    Probably a transformer output with multiple taps.

    -Bruce

  14. #114
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106

    Talking Son, you got to do better than this

    You only repeat my statements but offer no rebuttle. Why is that? As other members of this forum have pointed out to me many times, when you make sweeping statements and do not support them don't be surprise when there criticized. You offer no factual information, you share no personal experience.

    Should I go out and spend $2000 on a tube amp and read discussion forums on why tube amps are so great to make me feel better about my purchases?
    How did you pencil this disjointed comment from what I wrote? Here's a recap.I said, "I will never argue the benefits of one type over another, that is your choice. And if you're happy that's what matters." You have some distain for tube amplification. Fine, enjoy listening to circuit boards, I don''t care what your preference is just don't crap on everyone else's. And educating yourself before purchase is always advized but all the knowledge in the world won't help you if you're not honest with yourself.

    The crux of my argument against your blanket "if I expect it to be better it will" statement is "For those of you that really think you can't be trusted to make an informed decision I feel for you. How do you make it through your day? You must have a house filled with remorseful purchases to haunt you." The key word is TRUST.
    .

    MikE

  15. #115
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    240

    Smile Mike

    Sorry for misunderstanding your last post. No hard feelings.

  16. #116
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Joliet, Ill.
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Mwalsdor_cscc_edu

    Rule Number One: It's not about music or audio... it's ALL about winning. Welcome to AR!

    MikE

    Ain't that the truth. (now where's that puke smilie?)


    perhaps discussions like this would be better described as being a how-to thread. Basic arguements 101 using audio as your topic.
    Last edited by gonefishin; 12-08-2003 at 11:31 AM.
    __________________
    I found the spoon
    __________________


    enjoy the music!

  17. #117
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106

    "No hard feelings"

    Ditto. MikE

  18. #118
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106
    perhaps discussions like this would be better described as a "How to thread. Basic arguments 101 using audio as your topic".
    Indeed. Why do I get the feeling that Audio is just a pawn, for the players to use as props for their agendas. Thanks goodness we have AK! Off-topic, what did you buy as your Secret Santa gift? I did a search for my recipiant but can't find any leads for a possible gift. I was thinking music but no idea what he likes.

    MikE

  19. #119
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Joliet, Ill.
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Mwalsdor_cscc_edu
    Indeed. Why do I get the feeling that Audio is just a pawn, for the players to use as props for their agendas. Thanks goodness we have AK! Off-topic, what did you buy as your Secret Santa gift? I did a search for my recipiant but can't find any leads for a possible gift. I was thinking music but no idea what he likes.

    MikE

    MikE...I'm working on that now...as soon as I get the website...I'll let you know (PM)

    If you want...PM me who you've got...I may (or may not) have some ideas???


    oh...ok...back on topic. Beans Vs Cornbread? I think they go hand in hand :P
    __________________
    I found the spoon
    __________________


    enjoy the music!

  20. #120
    Forum Regular thepogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Va
    Posts
    490

    HEY can you two love birds take it elsewhere...

    we're attepting to run a war-room here...





    Nice ta see two ole faces...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    • Mark Levinson No. 27
    • Musical Fidelity 308cr
    • Martin Logan Prodigy's
    • Ariel Acoustics 10-T
    • Rega Planet CD
    • CJ Premier 9 DAC
    • Linn LP12 - Basik Plus - Valhalla
    • Benz Micro Cart.
    • Akai GX 747 Reel to Reel
    • Straight Wire Virtuoso Interconnects

  21. #121
    Forum Regular Mwalsdor_cscc_edu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Columbus
    Posts
    106

    Talking Looks like the pogue and bone

    ... after an all nighter! MikE

  22. #122
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by Mwalsdor_cscc_edu
    You only repeat my statements but offer no rebuttle. Why is that? As other members of this forum have pointed out to me many times, when you make sweeping statements and do not support them don't be surprise when there criticized. You offer no factual information, you share no personal experience.



    How did you pencil this disjointed comment from what I wrote? Here's a recap.I said, "I will never argue the benefits of one type over another, that is your choice. And if you're happy that's what matters." You have some distain for tube amplification. Fine, enjoy listening to circuit boards, I don''t care what your preference is just don't crap on everyone else's. And educating yourself before purchase is always advized but all the knowledge in the world won't help you if you're not honest with yourself.

    The crux of my argument against your blanket "if I expect it to be better it will" statement is "For those of you that really think you can't be trusted to make an informed decision I feel for you. How do you make it through your day? You must have a house filled with remorseful purchases to haunt you." The key word is TRUST.
    .

    MikE

    Mike. It is hard enough to follow this new board, let alone this long thread on this new board. Then you post under mine intended for another? Now I have to go back and retrace who said what to whom. I need more Tylenol
    mtrycrafts

  23. #123
    300A
    Guest

    Better than a DBT test

    Quote Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Of course that article was under DBT conditions, right?
    No? What do you mean? Then it is worthless, has no meaning, zero. End of story.
    How does he know what you are thinking? ESP? LOL.

    So your position is that if we hear any sonic differences, then an expensive DBT test is necessary. Otherwise it all sounds the same. LOL

    Everyone remember to bring your PHd friend along to run sofisticated DBT tests every time you go to the audio store. LOL.

  24. #124
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    583
    Quote Originally Posted by FLZapped
    Probably a transformer output with multiple taps.

    -Bruce
    Yeah, that's probably it.

  25. #125
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    3,326
    Quote Originally Posted by bpaulovich
    Can somone tell me why the tubes are so highly thought of yet the WPC are so much lower than solid states? In other words, why such a high price for only 25-35 watts with a tuber? How can such a low wattage give such a great sound. Want something (sterio) good for medium voulume classical/jazz in a fairly large room, currently have JBL Decade 26's, may upgrade them, but I just like the accurate highs. Currently have an intergrated Yamaha A-500 (100 watt I think? -bought used) Novice here of course. Thanks in advance, bobpaulo
    If they still made them like this, I might want to reconsider my big SS amp.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=39783
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. What, No Tube Audio Forum?!!!
    By Mwalsdor_cscc_edu in forum General Audio
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 11-24-2003, 11:09 AM
  2. Michigan rocks Ohio State! Life is good.
    By Swish in forum Rave Recordings
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-24-2003, 10:38 AM
  3. A few questions.
    By Beckman in forum General Audio
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-21-2003, 07:51 PM
  4. Michigan vs Ohio State
    By Over50 in forum Off Topic/Non Audio
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-21-2003, 06:46 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •