Tube integrated around $3000..

[jrhymeammo]

Well Bast,

It's not easy getting tube pre-pro for less than $3K. That would give me more options though.

[slowGEEZR]

JRA- this is my first post to this site, as I just found this forum today. I have a Jolida JD 1000RC integrated amp and thought I'd give you my impression of it. First, I don't know if I'm what you'd call an audiophile, but I really like music and really like my system. My system currently contains...

JD 1000RC
Krell KAV 400 (disconnected, will go into second system)
VPI Scout with Clearaudio Aurum Beta S Wood
Bellari phono amp
Pioneer Elite DVD, DVD-A, SACD, CD, etc. player
Straightwire Maestro II interconnects between TT and phono amp and amp.
Tara Labs Reference interconnect from the Pioneer to the amp.
Martin Logan Aerius
Audioquest Bedrock biwire speaker cable

The Jolida is one great amp. I put it in the system seven days ago and am still amazed at the quality of the sound. The Martin Logans are speakers that require a lot of power to sound their best. The Jolida really controls the speakers well. The Krell amp that I disconnected is a Stereophile class A rated amp and is very good. I think the Jolida blows it away. The Jolida is rated at 100 watts across the frequency range and 150 watts at 1K. The Krell is rated at 200 watts per channel and the clipping point in Stereophile's review was actually 290 watts! The Jolida seems to have as much power as the Krell, if not more, subjectively! Krell amps are known for their bass, but the Jolida seems to me to have even more. The Krell is supposed to be very articulate, but I'm hearing things easier with the Jolida. I wrote up a little review on the Jolida on the Martin Logan Club site, in case you want to read more about its sound qualities.

I paid $2260, including taxes for the amp at United Home Audio (aka Jolida, Inc.) in
Jessup, Maryland. Well under your $3000 price limit. There is no phono stage in the amp. This isn't a problem for me, as I really like my cheap little Bellari. You mentioned easy biasing. There are biasing lights for each tube in the Jolida. You simply use a small flathead screwdriver and turn clockwise until the light just lights. Do this for each tube every six months. The amp has a recent upgrade in that the individual biasing lights are right beside their corresponding tube. If you want, you can use a multimeter, as the contact points are near each light. But, I don't think it is necessary at all. There are some amps that have an auto biasing circuit, but remember that the signal has to go through those and therefore sound is degraded to some extent, although it might be almost insignificant.

The Jolida has two pre-outs, one fixed and one variable - nice!

Ok. I think I hit everything. Let me know if you need any more info. - Steve

[bobsticks]

Hey Steve,

Welcome to the forum. That's a pretty nice setup for a cat that "just likes music" Good to have another ML fan on board--don't be a stranger.

J-Murda, c'mon man, bite the bullet. You know you want to. Go with the Tube pre and some big hulking SS monster for the power...maybe big, blue lights...

Cheers to all

[jrhymeammo]

Hello Steve,

Hello to AudioReview. What took you so long to post here. We hope to see you around here more often.

I've curious about the amp for a while now. I appreciate you giving me better idea of the amp than I had before. Do you plan to upgrade caps and other small parts in your amp? I dont think I'm too crazy about upgrades on Jolida products. I think they would spend $1 a piece more on caps if that would result to significantly better sounding amp. Who knows, but I would love to read about your Jolida after 2-3 months. I say this cuz I'm always excited about new gears at first, then start to realize it's shortcomings after couple of months. But always nice to hear people enjoying their new toys.

The only thing keeping me away from it is that it doesnt offer Triode/UL swtich. I dont get it at all, without knowing its complexity.

Thanks again,

JRA

[slowGEEZR]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. JRA, I understand what you are saying about new ownership excitement, will the amp sound as good a few months down the road. I've tried to keep a reign on "over selling" the amp, but who knows, maybe it sounds so good just cuz it's new. I'll report back in a few months. I'll also hook the Krell back in to reassess and compare it as objectively as I can and try to write a reveiw on my perceptions. Right now, my system is in a rather small room, but I am moving to Texas soon (I retire from the government tomorrow). Maybe the sound in the new environment will favor the Krell.

Maybe someone familiar with tube operation can help out with the Triode/UL thing. Is UL the same as running pentode? I can't to wrapped up worrying about the mode, if it sounds good, what difference does it make? I know that the best designs have little or no feedback and the Jolida only has 5db of it. I also know that it has a little transformer hum, which can be mitigated by positioning. The background is dead silent from the speakers with this amp, no hiss or noise. Anyway, good luck in your searching. - Steve

[jrhymeammo]

Thanks for the welcome, guys. JRA, I understand what you are saying about new ownership excitement, will the amp sound as good a few months down the road. I've tried to keep a reign on "over selling" the amp, but who knows, maybe it sounds so good just cuz it's new. I'll report back in a few months. I'll also hook the Krell back in to reassess and compare it as objectively as I can and try to write a reveiw on my perceptions. Right now, my system is in a rather small room, but I am moving to Texas soon (I retire from the government tomorrow). Maybe the sound in the new environment will favor the Krell.

Maybe someone familiar with tube operation can help out with the Triode/UL thing. Is UL the same as running pentode? I can't to wrapped up worrying about the mode, if it sounds good, what difference does it make? I know that the best designs have little or no feedback and the Jolida only has 5db of it. I also know that it has a little transformer hum, which can be mitigated by positioning. The background is dead silent from the speakers with this amp, no hiss or noise. Anyway, good luck in your searching. - Steve

I would love to hear about your amp in a couple of months, but dont be shy to teach us a thing or two between now and...... I say this cuz we lose alot of great newbies after 4-5 posts cuz they are "busy"
But, now you got alot of time.

Cograts on your retirement. You shoulda requested for a new cartridge instead of a gold watch. Now, that's a company I wanna work for.

Do you know much about negative feedback?

[bobsticks]

Congrats on the retirement Steve and the upcoming move south. This winter has convinced me that the trek southward that I started a few years ago needs to continue. Lucky guy.

Man, if you're moving keep that Krell. IMO each room has unique synergistic relationships with equipment. Nothing worse than owning a Krell, selling a Krell, and then wanting to buy a new Krell...

Peace and enjoy your last day in the workforce.

[E-Stat]

Maybe someone familiar with tube operation can help out with the Triode/UL thing. Is UL the same as running pentode?

First of all, welcome aboard. As you may have gathered from my moniker, I'm an electrostat guy, too.

Back to the question. Not exactly. Ultralinear is a specific kind of operation that uses the transformer in a slightly different way. My VTL amps offer triode / tetrode switching. Triode (with lower power output) is best on smaller works, acoustical venues, voice, etc. Better inner focus and dimensionality. Ever so slightly rolled off top. Which simply means I run the tweeter level closer to flat. Tetrode is more vivid and offers more power. Better for Stravinsky and Madonna alike. Match the mode to the music.

rw

[Mr Peabody]

Martin Logan's are magic with a good tube amp. I auditioned the Aerius with a Krell 300i and the problem is the Aerius seem to roll off the lower octaves badly and with Krell's iron grip control on bass, that roll off is accentuated. I haven't heard Jolida but some tube amps have a thicker upper bass response that can give an illusion of more bass.

I thought I mentioned this but I didn't see my post here, I saw an ad for a Cayin 100t that costs $2,995.00 and is 100 watts ultralinear and 50 watts triode. The sound signature is said to be made to mimick the famous vintage Marantz 9/7 combo.

[jrhymeammo]

I haven't heard Jolida but some tube amps have a thicker upper bass response that can give an illusion of more bass.

my thoughts exactly. That's helping me out right now with a pair of bookshelf and no sub. And I listened to alot of bass heavy music on the weekends. Too tired for that during the week when I get home from work though. Time like that Triode switch would be magical for Jazz the I love.

[slowGEEZR]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody] I haven't heard Jolida but some tube amps have a thicker upper bass response that can give an illusion of more bass.
QUOTE]

Maybe that's it. The bass just seems better and very musical; not thick or muddy or slow. There may very well be a synergism at work here and I'm the lucky beneficiary! At some point, I'm going to try to use Krell in a biamp configuration to see how that sounds. Trouble is, I'm not sure how to do it. But, I don't want to hijack this thread with that.
- Steve

PS. Thanks all for the welcomes.

[Feanor]

I would like to start searching for a different tube integrated which I wanna acquire arounde summer. I was hoping that you guys can help me expand my options..
...
Please help cuz you guys know best.

JRA

JRA,

Because I like you I'm going to give you the hard advice.

• You're an idiot to buy new -- used is the way to go except for millionaires or status seekers.
• Forget integrated. Too inflexible and too many compromises.
• Forget tubes for the power section. You don't need the hassle.
• For a power amp, go with AbeCollins' favorite amp; (this guy has owned dozens of great amps and is without bias vis-a-vis tube vs. s/s sound). His top pick: Krell KSA 50S.
• Stick with your VTL preamp or go with one with balanced output. You like tubes, so make it a BAT VK-3i. (Or there's the Sonic Frontiers LINE 1 that I've got, but it's not really very tube-like.)

You can get the both the KSA 50S and the VK-3i for under $2500.

Don't blow it, my friend.

[E-Stat]

I haven't heard Jolida but some tube amps have a thicker upper bass response that can give an illusion of more bass.

It's a speaker matching issue. Tube amps have lower source impedance (also called damping factor) that causes speakers with roller coaster impedance curves to vary their response. On a different speaker, those peaks/dips wouldn't occur.

For example, my Sound Labs have a relatively tame curve (as did the Acoustats before them) so my VTLs are neutral. Dead neutral. With careful positioning and a forest of bass traps, I get measured +/- 1.5 db response from 30 hz to 200 hz. On the other hand, the VTLs and my double Advents are not a good match. Thick bass. They are much happier with a Threshold Stasis 3.

The only SS amp I've heard that has the magic of tubes is the ASR Emitter 2 Blue.

rw

[E-Stat]

Forget tubes for the power section. You don't need the hassle.

The hassle is worth it on the 'stats.

rw

[jrhymeammo]

Thanks Bill,

Getting one used will be a must for me. I just thought posting a thread for $3K, I would receive more options that people already know, and I would only spend about $2K.

As long as it's not a TT cartridge, I dont mind buying used... well unless I must have it and can't find it used. IC? Get'em used for sure.

BAT? That'll be sweet. Guess I could go with Tube/SS, cuz I dont plan on selling my current tube int/amp. You are giving me more to think about, and I'm actually starting to listen.

-Idiot