Tube Buffer w/ Receiver

[Enochrome]

Is it possible to run a tube buffer (Grant Fidelity) through a Tape Loop of a vintage receiver?
I have to 2 tape inputs and 2 tape outs. How would one do this?

Thanks

[E-Stat]

Is it possible to run a tube buffer (Grant Fidelity) through a Tape Loop of a vintage receiver?

Yes. A more important question is: why? Most tape monitor loops are already buffered to prevent loading down the preamp stage.

rw

[Feanor]

Is is possible to run a tube buffer (Grant Fidelity) through a Tape Loop of a vintage receiver?
I have to 2 tape inputs and 2 tape outs. How would one do this?

Thanks

Yes, it will work in the sense that you'll hear sound that has pass through the buffer. But what do you expect the tube buffer to do? Grant's explanation is 90% BS (... see it here).

When I tried an inexpensive tube buffer between my DAC and my preamp, all I got was some grain and loss of resolution. But then my preamp is tube; so a person might notice some agreeable "tube effect" in case of a s/s downstream.

Musical Fidelity offered one of the first popular tube buffers. Their explanation for improvement was that the buffer might remove source-amp impedance mismatches by causing the source to see a higher input impedance, and amp to see a lower output impedance.

Other than the above, (which won't be relevant to your receiver), you'll just be inserting more junk in the circuit to cause distortion -- but then again this is possibly the main benefit of typical tube circuits anyway.

[Glen B]

A more important question is: why?

He's probably looking for a "warmer, more tube-like sound".

[harley .guy07]

I agree with the fact that adding more into the stream with putting in this buffer would most likely do more harm than good but you never know until you try it. And I also agree with the distortion aspects to tube circuits as well seeing that their distortion characteristics are higher and a lot of people will say that this is what causes the warmth in the sound that a lot of people find appealing. I myself would suggest that if tubes are of interest and that is the sound that you are trying to achieve the only worthy way to do this is to switch to a tube preamp or integrated. There are some reasonably priced units out there now that are tube that I have heard sound good. But from what I have read most people that have tried tube buffers have questionable results from them. Just my opinion though.

[Mr Peabody]

As to how, you'd hook the buffer up in the same way as a tape deck, monitor out to buffer in and buffer out into monitor in, when tape monitor is on the signal would pass through the buffer, when tape monitor is off signal would bypass the buffer. If you could buy with a return policy it wouldn't be hard to see if there is any difference this way and if there is, is it desirable.

I've not played with one of these. As mentioned, seems reviews, or feedback is mixed from those who have. From what I've gathered any positive effect has been when used on mid to lower level gear.

I agree, with Harley's approach though, if wanting to warm up the sound or get some tube feel I'd try by introducing a tube component to the chain. I personally began experimenting in my system with a tube DAC. You had better be careful though you see what happened to me.

[Smokey]

And I also agree with the distortion aspects to tube circuits as well seeing that their distortion characteristics are higher and a lot of people will say that this is what causes the warmth in the sound that a lot of people find appealing.

Couldn't the same warmth be achived with a good quality Equalizer, without all the distortion

[Enochrome]

Thanks for the responses. I do realize that the warmth is really just distortion. But with my budget I decided to go a more "musical direction" than dead neutral. I have a Luxman 3045 receiver (warm SS), Paradigm Mini Monitors (warm side of neutral as stated by TAS), Denon DL-110 ( most musical and hot of the Denon lineup) and Thorens-TD125 MKll ( don't know what that means except that it is suspended=musical?)

So I feel that my direction is already far from neutral. I have a Cambridge 640p and that is the most neutral component I have and it is beginning to become my least favorite.

I thought the Tube Buffer could add a touch more color. I want a unique warm "thick" tone to put it simply. I'm not seasoned enough with the terminology, but I do not like a dry thin sound at all.

I took the advice of all of you and looked at tube pre's. I just missed out on a CJ PV7 for $360 Does anyone have any opinions of the Jolida tube pre?

[dingus]

i have a GF tube buffer that i like. its meant to be used it between a digital source and the pre/amp and i'm doubtful that using it with analog sources would be of any benefit.

[frenchmon]

Thanks for the responses. I do realize that the warmth is really just distortion. But with my budget I decided to go a more "musical direction" than dead neutral. I have a Luxman 3045 receiver (warm SS), Paradigm Mini Monitors (warm side of neutral as stated by TAS), Denon DL-110 ( most musical and hot of the Denon lineup) and Thorens-TD125 MKll ( don't know what that means except that it is suspended=musical?)

So I feel that my direction is already far from neutral. I have a Cambridge 640p and that is the most neutral component I have and it is beginning to become my least favorite.

I thought the Tube Buffer could add a touch more color. I want a unique warm "thick" tone to put it simply. I'm not seasoned enough with the terminology, but I do not like a dry thin sound at all.

I took the advice of all of you and looked at tube pre's. I just missed out on a CJ PV7 for $360 Does anyone have any opinions of the Jolida tube pre?

I think Jack has a Jolida tube integrated amp...you might want to check with him. I've heard nothing but good things about Jolida. That might be the way to go seeing Jolida has won a law suit against the imposter it seems. Make sure you go to jolida.net and not Jolida of Maryland....but I've heard both are good products. Look at the prices of some of the tube gear at Jolida.net....you cant beat those prices for a good product. Take a look at this integrated amp...Jolida JD1501D seems like a deal. And the Jolida JD9 - JD9A have a big following...many says you cant beat it for a budget product. They even have a passive preamp...wonder what it sounds like...good price to. Jolida JD50A

[E-Stat]

Thanks for the responses. I do realize that the warmth is really just distortion. But with my budget I decided to go a more "musical direction" than dead neutral.

A number of inexpensive solid state components are on the thin side of neutral. Getting the lower midrange right is critical. Also, you may be experiencing the artificial brightness (and relative thinness) produced by RFI generated around your house. Do you use any power conditioning for the source components?

Adding an otherwise superfluous component in the signal chain will never provide a net improvement.

rw

[Mr Peabody]

What would you do with a preamp? Do you have a power amp? You said you are happy with most of the system except the 640, so why not look into a tube DAC?

[harley .guy07]

Mr peabody is right why not look at other places in your system to make improvements, A tube DAC might help if you are a digital only guy or just plane reevaluating your system for weiknesses might improve your chances of overall musical sound that you want. My Friend Mr Peabody chooses tube preamp and tube amplification and he seems to love it and I choose class d preamp with SS amplification and love it so it seems tastes are part of the solution here. If you are not satisfied with what you have then by all means change it but go one direction or another because they seldom mix with good results and don't knock your solid state equipment as being like every piece of SS gear because there are fine pieces of SS gear out their as well and to point out I use a class d digital preamp with good results and some day plan to upgrade to class d digital amps as well which the models I am currently looking at has beat some of the best so use your better judgement and if tubes are what you want and the sound of tubes gets you going with your music by all means do it but a tube buffer is probably not going to solve your problems. When I was talking earlier I was referring to a tube integrated amp not a tube preamp. This might get you on the track you want to be on.

[Enochrome]

True. I will look into a tube DAC or Tube integrated overhaul. I think I will look into the Grant Fidelity tube DAC that others have mentioned here on other posts. I am torn between tube and ss. The bang for buck in ss is so much more accessible than tube. I have thought of the Jolida 202. I will sleep on it.

What is a "class d" amp? Is that similar to a "T" amp?

[harley .guy07]

Well it is something of a taste thing. Some people prefer the detail and impact of SS while others like the warm midrange of Tubes. Class D is digital controlled amplification and at first is was not a very viable option and it was only used in subwoofer amplifiers due to this but now several companies have come out with class d amps that are very good in fact there are several people on this forum that use class d preamps or amps that they have built and or bought that love them. My preamp is Class D and to me it gives me the warm midrange that tubes give but with the bass impact and detailed highs of SS. If I was you I would try to go to a better audio dealer in your area and listen to tubes and SS and class D if available and see which you like yourself. I will add that even though tubes are a viable option and many people are tube only listeners they do require a little more upkeep to keep them running at their best. Also there have been people that will pair a tube preamp to a SS amp and like it. Keep your options open and go with what sounds best to you and you will be happier in the end. If you have tube questions Mr. Peabody is a good person to ask in that he owns some of the best tube equipment I have heard in the realistic price class of a normal working person.

[Enochrome]

How do you like your Adcom power amp? I have thought about getting one some day, along with some Maggie MMGs.

[JoeE SP9]

I use a pair of GFA-545's to drive the rear speakers and rear sub with surround material. In the past I've had and used a GFA-535 and GFA-555. I have plenty of time listening to a GFA-585 that a buddy uses to drive Maggy 3.6R's. IMO the GFA-535 is the best sounding of them all. It's only 80WPC but acts like more. Driving a pair of MMG's with a GFA-535 and a powered sub woofer should sound very good.

edit:
I should change my sig to show the 545's instead of the no longer used Hafler's.

[Mr Peabody]

Did some one mention a 535, I just happen to be sitting on one, well, not literally, I'd be willing to sell. Just email or PM if interested.

[harley .guy07]

In my opinion Adcom amps are very good. While not being the best that can be had they do have a very good sound quality as long as the upstream equipment is good and they will not die. they will run for ever and provide you with years of music if you choose to go that route and to me the 545 series 2 is the best sounding of the Adcom amps and that comes from someone that sold Adcom in the 90's that got to play around with every piece of their equipment in different setups and the 545 II always sounded best to me but the 5500 and 5800 where good to and the 535 definitely had its merits as a good amp for the power ability and it was rated under what it could really do in a real world system.

[Enochrome]

How much would a GFA-545 go for, reasonably?

Also, what about a mix of a tube pre and T-amp monoblocks (25-60 watts)?

Is Class-D and Tripaths amps the same thing? Maybe the warmth of the tubes and
the fast dynamics of the t-amps might provide some kind of balance?

Harley now you got me intrigued on class d. I just happen to read some articles on the emergence of Class D into more upscale companies.

Just thinking out loud online.

[Mr Peabody]

You can look on Audiogon to see what a 545 may go for. I'm thinking $300.00 or less.

[aholeab]

I have a pair of luxman mb 3045 with 8045 g NEC tubes original. I lost two tubes 4 days ago and already try to make the modification to kt88 by luxman. I was just wondering if i can use el34 or kt 90 or even kt120 which are more similar to the original 8045g tubes. I dont want to lose quality and sweedness of the original tubes. Also i will change the original capacitators. Any experience abour . Thanks. I run them with a pair of B&W 801 Diamond and the sound is excelent

[Mr Peabody]

I'm not positive but I thought KT-88, 90 & 120 were similar just more power as the number increases. KT88 will provide more bass control and punch. EL34 is a bit different as they typically give up a bit in that bass control area to a more lush midrange.