Talk to me about amps

[ForeverAutumn]

Hubby and I are looking at purchasing a new system. We have a decent sounding set-up now that we've pieced together over the years (I'm sure most of you would consider it amatuer), but it's time to spend some dough on a real rig.

We're looking at possibly Paradigm Studio 60s, but I want to hear a few more speakers before making a final decision as the 60s are really stretching the budget.

Let's assume we end up with the Studio 60s or something similar. How much should I be budgeting for an amp? And what should I be looking for? If we end up with, say, Paradigm Monitor 9s or PSB T55s, does that change the amp we should get?

We use our system primarily for music but do have a 5.1 surround set-up also. I don't see us ever moving to 7.1. We watch about a movie a month so its really not worth it. 95% of the time our speakers are used for music.

[GMichael]

Budget? So many choices are based on $$ available.
This would be about your cheapest option http://emotiva.com/upa7.shtm (unless you go used)
But from what I've read, this unit delivers the goods for cheap.
Now, if you've got more cash to throw around, better IS available.

[Mr Peabody]

Is the surround sound a separate system or will this be one system used for both music and movies? Most dealers carry amps that match their line of speakers pretty well, this would be a good place to start. If only one system for everything and on a budget I'd look for a receiver with true preamp outputs and add a good 2 channel amp for the mains. If this can't be done at time of purchase it can always be done as money allows. Another avenue may be to look at good receivers by the likes of NAD or Rotel.

[bfalls]

I purchased the Emotiva XPA-5 about a month ago and couldn't be happier. I have several upper-level AV receiver from Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo and Sony. I had been happy with the sound, but always wanted check out separates. Not wanting to commit too large a chuck of cash, I checked out the Emotiva site.

The XPA-5 has five channels @200w/ch 8ohms, 350W/ch 4ohm. It has both balanced XLR and RCA unbalanced inputs. The power supply has a 1.6KVA transformer and over 60,000mfd in stored capacitance. Build quality is excellent.

The difference was very noticeable. I currently have it connected to my Sony ES series 130W/ch receiver. The sound was effortless, had more air and extended dynamics over the receiver. It's still in the process of breaking in, but I can see it only getting better.

I was so impressed with the quality and value of the amp I purchased a pair of their bookshelf speakers. They are also a great buy at $149/ea $10 shipping. They had a 4th of July sale and added free shipping to the deal. I just couldn't pass it up. They are still breaking in as well. In general, I'm very pleased with both purchases. I'm actually considering the purchase of a third bookshelf since they are being discontinued.

So far I haven't seen anything bad and very impressed. BTW, I'm not associated with Emotiva in any way. I just appreciate an exceptional deal when I see/hear one. Check them out, you won't be disappointed. They do have a return policy.

[kexodusc]

FA are you looking for an amplifier, or a receiver (basically a replacement of the JVC you have now?)

Sometimes the terms are used interchangeably, just want to be sure we know what you want.

[ForeverAutumn]

Is the surround sound a separate system or will this be one system used for both music and movies? Most dealers carry amps that match their line of speakers pretty well, this would be a good place to start. If only one system for everything and on a budget I'd look for a receiver with true preamp outputs and add a good 2 channel amp for the mains. If this can't be done at time of purchase it can always be done as money allows. Another avenue may be to look at good receivers by the likes of NAD or Rotel.

Same system for both. Forgive my ignorance I'm totally new to the gear side of music. Are you saying that I should have two amps?

What's the difference between an amp and a preamp? I embarrassed to ask these questions, but for all the music that I listen to, I've never had the money to pay any attention to gear before now. It's time to get educated.

[ForeverAutumn]

FA are you looking for an amplifier, or a receiver (basically a replacement of the JVC you have now?)

Sometimes the terms are used interchangeably, just want to be sure we know what you want.

I guess I'm looking for something to replace the JVC receiver since I don't think it will be adequate for the new speakers. The truth is that I don't really know what I need. I used to think that any old receiver will do, but apparently that's not the case.

Man, I feel ignorant.

[ForeverAutumn]

Most dealers carry amps that match their line of speakers pretty well, this would be a good place to start.

I'd like to go in there with some knowledge on the topic. The dealer's job is to make a sale and a profit. While I really like the salesman that we're dealing with and I believe that he wants to make us happy, returning, customers, we have slightly different agendas.

[Feanor]

I guess I'm looking for something to replace the JVC receiver since I don't think it will be adequate for the new speakers. The truth is that I don't really know what I need. I used to think that any old receiver will do, but apparently that's not the case.

Man, I feel ignorant.

Yes, FA, you should be ashamed. (Just kidding of course.)

A quality receiver will do -- I can't really recommend a model but you'll probably need to look in the C$800+ range. I'll admit an Emotiva UMC-1 + XPA-5 combo looks darned attractive -- though pricier and, of course, an import from the US.

The Paradigm Studio speakers are actually moderately efficient. You don't need anything like 200 wpc to drive them: it's much more important to have quality power rather than quantity.

[GMichael]

FA , Is there anything wrong with the JVC you have?

[ForeverAutumn]

FA , Is there anything wrong with the JVC you have?

Nothing. It's actually quite a nice unit that has served us well. It's 100wpc. Here are the specs.

[GMichael]

Nothing. It's actually quite a nice unit that has served us well. It's 100wpc. Here are the specs.

Seems like a reasonable receiver. Are you just looking for a step up?

[Feanor]

Nothing. It's actually quite a nice unit that has served us well. It's 100wpc. Here are the specs.

I'd venture to say that you have no urgent need to replace that JVC from the point of view of powering Paradigm speakers to normal volumes -- you'd be better off puting the cash towards replacing your center and surround speakers with matching Paradigms.

I assum you have the RX-6030 version with S-video and Component inputs. However that model does not have the HDMI interface which eventually you are going to want for interfacing with a Blu-ray in a flexible way. (Not all Blu-ray players have Component output.)

[ForeverAutumn]

Seems like a reasonable receiver. Are you just looking for a step up?

I'm not looking for anything if I don't need it. I just assumed that the JVC wouldn't be good enough to power the larger speakers. But if it'll do the job and provide us with good sound, then I'm happy with that.

I guess that I was under the impression that a good receiver makes a big sound difference. If we're going to drop two grand on speakers then I didn't want to be powering them with something that wasn't going to make them sound their best.

I'd venture to say that you have no urgent need to replace that JVC from the point of view of powering Paradigm speakers to normal volumes -- you'd be better off puting the cash towards replacing your center and surround speakers with matching Paradigms.

I assum you have the RX-6030 version with S-video and Component inputs. However that model does not have the HDMI interface which eventually you are going to want for interfacing with a Blu-ray in a flexible way. (Not all Blu-ray players have Component output.)

Define "normal volumes".

Your assumptions about the receiver are correct. There is no HDMI interface, but adding a Blu-ray player is not high on our priority list since we rarely use our DVD player now. I'm hoping that the price on Blu-ray players will drop some more before we get around to that.

My plan was to move our current main speakers to the back. But if we don't need a new receiver then, perhaps you're right and I should look at matching rears. That will free up our current speakers for another room.

This is all good news!

[GMichael]

I'm not looking for anything if I don't need it. I just assumed that the JVC wouldn't be good enough to power the larger speakers. But if it'll do the job and provide us with good sound, then I'm happy with that.

I guess that I was under the impression that a good receiver makes a big sound difference. If we're going to drop two grand on speakers then I didn't want to be powering them with something that wasn't going to make them sound their best.



Define "normal volumes".

Your assumptions about the receiver are correct. There is no HDMI interface, but adding a Blu-ray player is not high on our priority list since we rarely use our DVD player now. I'm hoping that the price on Blu-ray players will drop some more before we get around to that.

My plan was to move our current main speakers to the back. But if we don't need a new receiver then, perhaps you're right and I should look at matching rears. That will free up our current speakers for another room.

This is all good news!

Hmmmm... Need and want are not the same thing. Your JVC will drive those speakers, and they will sound great. A more powerful receiver would make them sound a little better. Step up to a processor and external amp, and you'll have yet another improvement. It all boils down to how much you are willing to put out (see how I slipped that in?).
My suggestion would be to use what you have and see if it fits your needs. If it does, great. If it comes up short, then look to upgrade. Something with HDMI would be best.

What about that center speaker? Does it match your new towers?

[kexodusc]

FA, if nothing else, try the Studio 60's (good choice btw) first with your receiver. They'll probably play plenty loud. What speakers do you have now and how old are they? There's a chance the Studios will play considerably louder...

If you decide there's something lacking, you can always buy a receiver later. Don't let that nasty sales guy tell you otherwise.

[ForeverAutumn]

Wow. I'm glad that I asked you guys first. I was all ready to drop another bundle on a receiver but it doesn't sound like I need to do that yet. Which is great news!

To answer all your Qs. we have a very nice StudioLab centre which we bought about 9 years ago to match our StudioLab bookshelfs which are our mains and were purchased about 10 years ago.

I know that the Studio 60s will be louder and fuller than what we have now. Actually, one of Hubby's concerns is whether they will be too loud (like there's such a thing, ) for the size of the room. When we go to hear them for the second time I want to play them at low volume too.

The sales guy never tried to pressure us into a new receiver. His attitude is that if he treats us well on the speaker purchase now, then we'll come back to him when we're ready to upgrade the rest of our components...and he told us as much. It was me who was thinking that it might be beneficial to do it all at once.

We're not completely sold on the Studio 60s yet. Hubby thinks that we're spending too much and wants to look at a few less expensive options. I don't mind looking around, but I'm pretty certain that we'll end up back at the 60s. I do want to hear them at lower volumes and I want to hear some of my own music on them. I haven't heard any metal on them yet and any speaker that gets through my front door had better be able to drive some progressive metal.

[Hyfi]

Here is a good review of the Studio speakers as an HT system.

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi..._seismic12.htm

As far as amps go, yes your receiver will drive the speakers and for most earbud mp3 listening folks, it will do just fine. If you are going to demo the speakers, have them play them through a receiver first and then switch them to a separates system with a 150-200wpc high current amp and put a pillow on the floor under your chin for when your jaw drops.

What you should notice is a better midrange, meaning the tone and timbre of each instrument will be more accurate. You will also notice improved bass control and depth as opposed to the normal mush of all three ranges you get out of most receivers.

Those speakers are in line with some JM-Focals and B&W and Dynaudio speakers but luckily the sensativity is a little higher so as not to require the power needed to correctly drive a Dane.

As always, listen for yourself with all options available. Listen to the 60s in the store with both receiver and separate amp. If you do buy the speakers, listen with your receiver and decide if it's good enough or not.

[nightflier]

Not to muddy the waters, but the Axiom M80s (I always think of fireworks when I say that), should probably also be on your list of speakers to audition. Axiom is also Canadian so shipping/fees should be tolerable, and they do make a good performing speaker. Granted it's not a Paradigm on looks, but the savings could be used towards a better receiver (or preamp / amp combo).

I've owned the M80s, and even though that was years ago, that's one speaker I still regret having sold. They excel in dynamic range, and would have made a very good reference/baseline speaker for auditioning and comparing gear. They are especially well suited to pop and rock music, which I'm guessing is your type of music. Yes, Rush, April Wine, Kim Mitchell, and Triumph will definitely sound good on those speakers.

The Paradigms are no slouches. I haven't heard Studio 60s, but I've heard others including the reference series and to my ears they have a more extended and refined treble, but lack the oomph and body you would get from the Axioms. I think the PSBs (other than the Platinum series) tend to be closer to the Paradigms in sound as well. I've been told that the Synchronys are a bit different, so my info may be out of date, but that's been my experience.

Just FYI: the M80s also go a good 10-20Hz lower, will handle an additional 150w of power, and run on as little as 10w. They are slightly larger (just over 3cm wider, really), but that also gives them more internal capacity. And they do all that for about C$1550.

No, I do not work for Axiom or any other A/V manufacturer. I'm just an enthusiastic former customer. If I can add one more plug: their tech support is excellent. They have suffered through quite a few of my lengthy emails to even help me set up HT gear that wasn't Axiom's. The owner, Ian, is also very accessible and will answer emails as well.

Anyhow, that's been my experience.

[Luvin Da Blues]

We're not completely sold on the Studio 60s yet. Hubby thinks that we're spending too much and wants to look at a few less expensive options. I don't mind looking around, but I'm pretty certain that we'll end up back at the 60s.

Have ya listened to the G-Designs yet?

[ForeverAutumn]

Have ya listened to the G-Designs yet?

No. The only PSBs we've heard are the T45s. They had the G-Designs in the store we went to, but I wasn't considering that price range initially. It was only after hearing the Studios that I considered increasing my budget. So now we have to go back and try some others in that higher range. The G-Designs looked quite a bit bigger than the Paradigms (as did the T55s) and we have to be conscous of cabinet size as our room is only 11 feet wide and we don't want speakers that are going to stick out too far from the wall. One of the nice things about the design of the Studios was the rounded cabinet that gave the speakers a much smaller appearance than the squared cabinets of the PSBs and the Monitor series.

Thanks for your input Hyfi and Nightflier. I'll see if I can find the Axioms for sale around here.

[GMichael]

No. The only PSBs we've heard are the T45s. They had the G-Designs in the store we went to, but I wasn't considering that price range initially. It was only after hearing the Studios that I considered increasing my budget. So now we have to go back and try some others in that higher range. The G-Designs looked quite a bit bigger than the Paradigms (as did the T55s) and we have to be conscous of cabinet size as our room is only 11 feet wide and we don't want speakers that are going to stick out too far from the wall. One of the nice things about the design of the Studios was the rounded cabinet that gave the speakers a much smaller appearance than the squared cabinets of the PSBs and the Monitor series.

Thanks for your input Hyfi and Nightflier. I'll see if I can find the Axioms for sale around here.

I think they are an internet only company, but that may just be my view.

[ForeverAutumn]

I think they are an internet only company, but that may just be my view.

Yes, it appears that way. It seems like kind of a hassle to have to buy them without hearing them and then ship them back if we don't like them.

[Luvin Da Blues]

The G-Designs looked quite a bit bigger than the Paradigms (as did the T55s) and we have to be conscous of cabinet size as our room is only 11 feet wide and we don't want speakers that are going to stick out too far from the wall. The Gs are actually considered a small tower.

[QUOTE=ForeverAutumn]One of the nice things about the design of the Studios was the rounded cabinet that gave the speakers a much smaller appearance than the squared cabinets of the PSBs and the Monitor series. The Gs also have rounded corners on the sides and top whereas the front baffle is curved.[QUOTE]

BTW, the T-45s aren't in the same league as the G-designs. The Gs are more neutral and detailed. At first listen you may find them a tab bit boring but after a few minutes of listening the refinment will become aparent. Have a listen.

[GMichael]

Yes, it appears that way. It seems like kind of a hassle to have to buy them without hearing them and then ship them back if we don't like them.

True, but hearing speakers in a store is not the same as hearing them at home.