Stereo preamp ideas.

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  • 06-02-2010, 03:20 PM
    brad1138
    Stereo preamp ideas.
    I recently replaced my PS Audio 4.6 preamp & Yamaha RX-V995 (used as preamp) with a Lexicon DC-2. The surround sound is better then the 995. When I compare it against my PS Audio 4.6, which I used for stereo listening, the DC-2 has better bass, cleaner highs, better imaging and detail, but it is also cold and a little harsh, I find myself missing the warmth of the PS Audio, especially for vocals. (The PS Audio 4.6 was a StereoPhile reference preamp in its day)

    When I was first setting up the DC-2 I ran it's record outs to my PS Audio to compare the DC-2s DACs against the SoundStream DAC-1 I had been using. The DC-2 sounded much better. I could try to use the PS Audio with the DC-2 similar to the way I did when I ran it with the 995, but that is a bit complicated for the rest of the Fam to figure out and the PS Audio is old and has some issues.

    I would like to find a warmer preamp, possibly tube, that has HT pass-through. It would also need a built in DAC or I would need to buy one of those also. I want to get an OPPO BDP 83SE which has an excellent DAC, but that is down the road, and I want to wait for the model w/3D enabled.

    I will be looking for used, on Ebay/CL/AudioGon. It is hard to give a price range, under $1000 anyway, hopefully a lot less. I see some highly rated Rotel preamps going for $200-$400, that range would be better, but I think I may want better than Rotel. What Ideas do you have?

    Thanks,
    Brad
  • 06-02-2010, 04:14 PM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brad1138
    ...

    I would like to find a warmer preamp, possibly tube, that has HT pass-through. It would also need a built in DAC or I would need to buy one of those also. I want to get an OPPO BDP 83SE which has an excellent DAC, but that is down the road, and I want to wait for the model w/3D enabled.

    I will be looking for used, on Ebay/CL/AudioGon. It is hard to give a price range, under $1000 anyway, hopefully a lot less.
    ...
    Thanks,
    Brad

    Warm stereo preamp, eh? From what I've heard Conrad Johnson or Cary tube pre's meet that criterion.

    E.g. this CJ PV14 L on the 'Gon, (though this one's linestage only).

    http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just...cts/a-pv14.jpg

    Here's a Cary SLP-308 also on Agon ...

    http://pic3.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1274838539.jpg
  • 06-02-2010, 04:28 PM
    brad1138
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Feanor
    Warm stereo preamp, eh? From what I've heard Conrad Johnson or Cary tube pre's meet that criterion.

    E.g. this CJ PV14 L on the 'Gon, (though this one's linestage only).

    http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just...cts/a-pv14.jpg

    Here's a Cary SLP-308 also on Agon ...

    http://pic3.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1274838539.jpg

    I guess I mean "not cold" as much as "warm", but thanks for the info.

    Brad
  • 06-02-2010, 06:28 PM
    Mr Peabody
    The PV-14 was my prior model preamp and it did good bass as well as decently extended high end. It does feature a HT bypass. I found it an extremely good preamp for the money. It has a CJ signature which is warm but not in a bad way. It gave the music the rhythm or pace it should have.

    When I read your post I was thinking there's a candidate for the Conrad Johnson MET-1, until I saw your budget. The MET-1 is a 5 channel tube preamp. You'd run the Oppo into it using the multichannel analog connections. Nightflier used a similar set up but he chose the McCormack preamp.

    Feanor, did the GFP-750 have a bypass?

    Were you going to replace the Lexicon? If you can stretch the budget Audiophile Liquidator had dirt cheap prices on my Marantz AV-8003. I actually find it fairly neutral but the outcome would probably depend also on what amp you pair it with. What amp do you have any way? I also like the sound of Anthem A/V preamps. Probably again mo DAC but you might also consider Musical Fidelity, although I don't know any particular model.
  • 06-02-2010, 07:32 PM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    ...

    Feanor, did the GFP-750 have a bypass?

    ...

    Yes, it did.
  • 06-03-2010, 06:38 AM
    brad1138
    Let me refine the question a bit, I will be keeping the Lexicon for surround. I just am looking for a quality, 2 chan preamp (possibly but not necessarily tube) Most should sound warmer than my Lex. I want one that is at least as good as my PS Audio was, with HT pass-through and hopefully a good built in DAC (I could get a separate DAC if needed or just use the OPPO when I get it). I only paid ~ $150 for my PS Audio and it served me well for a over decade. I expect to pay more than that for the added features I want and that it will be newer, but that is basically what I am looking for.

    I am currently running my M3s through my Citation 5.1, but I plan on upgrading that also. Either a Parasound Halo A21 or Bryston 4bst or 4bsst
  • 06-03-2010, 09:38 AM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brad1138
    Let me refine the question a bit, I will be keeping the Lexicon for surround. I just am looking for a quality, 2 chan preamp (possibly but not necessarily tube) Most should sound warmer than my Lex. I want one that is at least as good as my PS Audio was, with HT pass-through and hopefully a good built in DAC (I could get a separate DAC if needed or just use the OPPO when I get it). I only paid ~ $150 for my PS Audio and it served me well for a over decade. I expect to pay more than that for the added features I want and that it will be newer, but that is basically what I am looking for.

    I am currently running my M3s through my Citation 5.1, but I plan on upgrading that also. Either a Parasound Halo A21 or Bryston 4bst or 4bsst

    Maybe the trickiest part of your request is a built-in DAC. There some preamps that do, but personally I can't think of a pre that meets all three criteria.

    I refer you once again to the Conrad Johnson. Appart from the DAC would give you what you want in spades. (If I happened to be looking for a new preamp, I'd probably jump on it myself.)
  • 06-04-2010, 08:28 AM
    dean_martin
    Emotiva has a 2ch preamp at $399 list. I think it has everything but the dac.

    http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm

    There are some Emotiva fans on this board. I'm just not sure whether they've tried the preamp.
  • 06-04-2010, 03:30 PM
    RGA
    You know what you are way the hell better off going to your local high end dealer and taking a bunch home with you. You can piss money away guessing and trying several amps but the only person who will know how the preamp will react to your power amp and speakers and "your ears" is going to be you.

    I have a Rotel RC 1082 and it's a fine unit for the price - you'll get one for $500 maybe less. But it's not an elite unit. Although it's probably as good as any ~$1400 preamp. I chose it as a budget review preamp because it is quite feature rich in that it has MC and MM phone stage capability and does a reasonably good job at both.

    You could look into the Benchmark Dac-1 as it is both a preamp and DAC http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/system...erter/dac1-pre

    I liked what I heard from this at CES. I ended up choosing the room this was in as one of the five best rooms at CES. I probably would not spend more than this on a solid State unit.

    Tube can be great but in this price range - not so much. Buying used is an option but IMO you need to listen to them. Some makers make preamps for particular power amps with an end goal sound in mind. As such they may be great preamps but could really stink it up in your system. Something tells me The Benchmark will be highly transferable form system to system. But I can't comment on it in depth.

    However, I will bring something up here. Instead of Bryston - you should look into Odyssey. They sound better IMO (and at worst they will be just as good) and cost considerably less money(in most cases less than half). They also have the 20 year warranty. The money you save there you could probably then double your budget on the preamp and get something extraordinary.

    Another power amp option might be the Shengya PM 150 Monoblocks. They are tube hybrid monoblocks offer considerable power 150 watts and 300 into 4ohms. Yet they don't have the sterile sound common to SS power amps. I have not tried their preamp but the whole set-up would be about $2400. When I reviewed them the monoblocks were $2400 and they are factory directing them and you get the preamp included. The monoblocks are 40lbs each and are uber built units. Tanks. A fellow reviewer recently covered their upper scale preamp - but I would check them out. http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/ca...direct_shengya
  • 06-04-2010, 03:48 PM
    devuonoste
    Check out Space Tech Lab: www.space-tech-lab.com

    You can phone or email the owner named Albert, and he can steer you in the right direction. Not sure if he has all you need but he is probably the most knowlegeable audiophile I have ever talked to and he seems to know about everything. His equipment is top notch and if he doesn't have something you need he can direct you to the best possible options for your needs.
  • 06-04-2010, 07:31 PM
    Ajani
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by brad1138
    Let me refine the question a bit, I will be keeping the Lexicon for surround. I just am looking for a quality, 2 chan preamp (possibly but not necessarily tube) Most should sound warmer than my Lex. I want one that is at least as good as my PS Audio was, with HT pass-through and hopefully a good built in DAC (I could get a separate DAC if needed or just use the OPPO when I get it). I only paid ~ $150 for my PS Audio and it served me well for a over decade. I expect to pay more than that for the added features I want and that it will be newer, but that is basically what I am looking for.

    I am currently running my M3s through my Citation 5.1, but I plan on upgrading that also. Either a Parasound Halo A21 or Bryston 4bst or 4bsst


    Since you are planning to upgrade amps as well... you might want to hold off on get a separate pre. I'd wait and see if the new amp is sufficiently warm to use with the Lex...
  • 06-06-2010, 09:49 AM
    brad1138
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dean_martin
    Emotiva has a 2ch preamp at $399 list. I think it has everything but the dac.

    http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm

    There are some Emotiva fans on this board. I'm just not sure whether they've tried the preamp.

    That one looks interesting, I would like to hear from some people who have it or have heard it. I think I emphasized tube to much earlier though. Basically any analog pre should be warmer than my all digital DC-2. Another forum recommended the Adcom GFP-750 also, I am not a huge Adcom fan but after reading the reviews, it looks intriguing. Between both forums, the tube pres have been just under $1000 (aside from the USP-1) where a good/used SS pre will start closer to $500, maybe less.

    Although I will be getting a more powerful amp, There isn't a lot of variance between quality amps in this area, at least not as much as there is in pres, so I think I will get the pre first. My Citation is a very good amp, it would have enough power but I don't like the sound of it bridged, so I am using 2 of the 4 chans to run my M3's at the moment, the other 2 chans are running surrounds.

    I can't afford to buy new equipment, so I look for the diamonds in the ruff out there and am just trying to get ideas where to look. I will Google whatever suggestions I get here and find 1 or 2 to keep an eye out for. There are so many out there it is hard to know where to start without some help. My PS Audio, was just such a "diamond in the ruff" I paid about $150 for it on ebay over 10 years ago, it has a Stereophile "Class A" rated phono section and was once one of their reference preamps. It was reviewed well elsewhere also and I have loved it, and really still do. Its age (some of the plastic housing for the rca connections are breaking and it has a low level ground hum prob) and lack of a HT bypass are the main reason I am looking to replace it, it also is a bit weak in the bass region (noted by Stereophile also) which in the large room I have leaves me wanting more bass (w/o using sub or EQ).

    So, I've gone on to much, any thoughts you might have on a good non-tube pre (or the USP-1) would be appreciated.

    Thanks again,
    Brad
  • 06-06-2010, 10:46 AM
    Mr Peabody
    Keep in mind the Emotiva has a 30 day return but I don't think that would be the one if you are trying to get away from a sterile sound. The gfp-750 is said to sound much better using it's passive mode.

    If considering a tube preamp and planning to use it with a solid state amp you want one with a low output impedance, this works best when matching tubes and solid state. Low is 500 ohms or better.