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  1. #1
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    Pre Amp to Amps Q

    Hello. Finally building a seperates music/home theater system, I am looking at a THX Pre Amp (marantz av600 or sim), and Carver Main amp. When I mix and match amor main and center/rear it is nessesary to match power? My thought is to have a 250w main amp (for great 2 ch music listening), and then add 3 smaller amps (100w/ch) for the rear and center channel. Any issues with this? Thanks!

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    You do not need the same size power amps as the speaker levels can all be balanced inside the preamps internal set up menu. Many people add large paoer amps for the front mains and let their receiver's amps do the rest of the channels. So no problem with your plan at all.

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    Audio Hobbyist Since 1969 Glen B's Avatar
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    I concur with what Mr. Peabody said. In my HT system I'm using a 210W x 2 amp on the R+L mains, and three channels of a 100W x 5 AV receiver on the center and surrounds. The system does double-duty for secondary 2-channel listening.

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    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Actually, the amp that has the most to do is the front center channel amp.

    When you consider that 80% of what you hear in a movie comes from the center speaker, it makes sense that the front three should have at least equal power, with any extra geared towards the center.

    The surrounds can easily get by with less power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    When you consider that 80% of what you hear in a movie comes from the center speaker, it makes sense that the front three should have at least equal power, with any extra geared towards the center.

    The surrounds can easily get by with less power.
    If you have for example 200 watts to the front L/R and 100 watts to the center and surrounds it really don't matter to a point. You balance all channels to output evenly inside the preamp. So when watching a movie if something happens in the action that all channels are driven to 20 watts there is still reserve and only 20 watts is coming from all channels. 20 watts is pretty loud on most systems. It is also rare that all channels would be driven at the same time. With that being said, it is true that not all watts are created equal, neither are amps. If one did push their system to the limits the center just using the receiver could certainly reach distortion much quicker than the higher quality power amp with more power to the fronts. This could be a big factor if ever considering multichannel music.

  6. #6
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Well. everyone is allowed to have their own opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    If you have for example 200 watts to the front L/R and 100 watts to the center and surrounds it really don't matter to a point. You balance all channels to output evenly inside the preamp. So when watching a movie if something happens in the action that all channels are driven to 20 watts there is still reserve and only 20 watts is coming from all channels. 20 watts is pretty loud on most systems. It is also rare that all channels would be driven at the same time. With that being said, it is true that not all watts are created equal, neither are amps. If one did push their system to the limits the center just using the receiver could certainly reach distortion much quicker than the higher quality power amp with more power to the fronts. This could be a big factor if ever considering multichannel music.
    Well, if you can justify your answer this way, fine, but I still say that given a choice, the channel with the most demand should get the most powerful amplifier. That would be the center channel, and I say it should be at least as powerful as the front right and left channels.

    This echos the generally accepted standards that most knowledgable people follow. It's sort of a GAAP of HT. Since he asked, it was only fair that he should be made aware of this.
    Last edited by markw; 08-24-2008 at 10:08 AM.

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    Mark, first let me say I'd like to keep this a civil discussion. I respect that you have another opinion and there's nothing wrong with that, I also acknowledge that in a movie playback situation that the center channel gets the most work. However the poster said he was adding more power to the mains for a "2 channel" music playback. In most instances I'd think a 100 watts would be good for each channel of a HT set up anyway. He also stated he would be using a preamp processor, so the 100 wpc amp will be external as well. Ideally, I like the front amplification to be the same for tonal equality more than anything else. I don't think what he is planning to do will cause any problems though. I used a 250x2 Krell for my front L/R and an Arcam 100x3 for center and rears for quite a while. I never lacked for power or clarity and my center was a Dynaudio Contour series. I'm sure the Arcam worked much harder but that wasn't audible. When going to a 5-channel amp what was most apparent to me was the gain in cohesiveness across the front. The mix matched amps sounded fine at the time but when switching to the same across the front the improvement was noticeable. In my opinion the tonal balance for movie playback will be more of a consideration than a possible lack of power. In any case, if you hadn't kept this discussion going this point may not have been brought out.

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    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Mark, first let me say I'd like to keep this a civil discussion.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    In any case, if you hadn't kept this discussion going this point may not have been brought out.
    So, you're saying that I had no business making my first post? Who the fluck do you think you are?

    Remember, my initial post said nothing against you even though your statement goes against all logic. I just simply (and politely) offered my humble (and more technically correct) "opinion" without trying to disparage your "opinion".

    Now, had you simply let my "opinion" lie without trying to one-up me with your patented bullshiite trying to justify your stance, we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

    So, try to keep this in perspective, will you? If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

    But, yes, his system will work with those amps. It won't be technically correct, but it will work up to a point. He may never push it to it's limits. Let's hope that's the case.

    The only way to assure this is to make sure the center and mains are turned off when concentrating on two channel music and, even then, there's no guarantee that he won't get "carried away" when availing himself of multi-channel entertainment. Remember, loudness ia an exponential situtaion and a good peak demand can easily put a tremendous draw on an amp. After all, 100 watts is only twice as loud as ten watts, or four times as loud as one watt.
    Last edited by markw; 08-24-2008 at 03:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Fair enough.

    So, you're saying that I had no business making my first post? Who the fluck do you think you are?

    * You read too much into things. It must be in your nature to walk around with a chip on your shoulder.

    Remember, my initial post said nothing against you even though your statement goes against all logic. I just simply (and politely) offered my humble (and more technically correct) "opinion" without trying to disparage your "opinion".

    * Actually, your answer is not more technically correct. As long as you have ample power to each channel it doesn't matter what the power rating of the amp is. The balance set up will only allow so much from any of the channels. If you wanted to set it up this way, you could make it to where it was virtually impossible for the amp to clip by setting a low internal output on the preamp. . So this fact would actually make your answer down right wrong.
    Though you claim it defies logic, adding an external 2 channel amp is a very popular configuration.

    Now, had you simply let my "opinion" lie without trying to one-up me with your patented bullshiite trying to justify your stance, we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

    * Poor Mark, everyone is always picking on him.

    So, try to keep this in perspective, will you? If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

    * I didn't realize anything was dished out. If you jump into the middle of a conversation giving an answer that is off base to what the OP asked and then claiming your superiority whether correct or not, whether your answer was relevant or not, then I guess we have perspective.

    But, yes, his system will work with those amps. It won't be technically correct, but it will work up to a point. He may never push it to it's limits. Let's hope that's the case.

    * As stated above, it's not really the power of the amp that will dictate that. An A/V preamp or receiver has a master, or main, volume which could be turned up all the way but if the internal set up volume is very low an amp may not use but a fraction of what it's capable of. So if done correctly the amps power rating really don't even matter. You are making much to do about nothing.

    The only way to assure this is to make sure the center and mains are turned off when concentrating on two channel music and, even then, there's no guarantee that he won't get "carried away" when availing himself of multi-channel entertainment. Remember, loudness ia an exponential situtaion and a good peak demand can easily put a tremendous draw on an amp. After all, 100 watts is only twice as loud as ten watts, or four times as loud as one watt.
    * I believe if you turn off the center and mains while listening to 2 channel you'd have silence. Recognizing you as the genious you are I'll assume that was a Froydian slip.
    So are you trying to say he is better off with all 3 front channels at 100 watts or everyone into home theater should have 200 plus watts to the front 3 in order to have a proper HT set up? You are so big on logic, perhaps you should step back a moment and engage in some yourself. In addition, he will have at least two separate power amps each having their own power supply so he will already be ahead of the game on reducing "amplifier strain". Even if some one added a larger 2-channel amp to a HT receiver, just taking the burden of the mains off the receiver's power supply would help that set up. So I really didn't try to one up you or make this any competition but the more we discuss the matter the more I realize you are really just wrong all the way around. The fact that the center gets most of the movies emphasis is really irrelevant to amplifier size and made so by proper set up of the system. Using your logic 5-channel amps would have double the power in one channel for the center. But in the real world all 5 channels are created equal.
    Last edited by Mr Peabody; 08-24-2008 at 06:25 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    * I believe if you turn off the center and mains while listening to 2 channel you'd have silence. Recognizing you as the genious you are I'll assume that was a Froydian slip.
    Thank you. It should have said "center and surrounds"

    BTW. it's "genius" amd freudian", and it's more of a misstatement as opposed to a freudian slip. Since you're callng me on it, I would have hoped you know the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    So are you trying to say he is better off with all 3 front channels at 100 watts or everyone into home theater should have 200 plus watts to the front 3 in order to have a proper HT set up?
    That's how you read it? Figures.... As I said earlier, and quite plainly I believe, that the center should he at least as powerful as the mains. Did you not get that from my first post? After all, it's not that difficult a concept to grasp, is is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    You are so big on logic, perhaps you should step back a moment and engage in some yourself. In addition, he will have at least two separate power amps each having their own power supply so he will already be ahead of the game on reducing "amplifier strain". Even if some one added a larger 2-channel amp to a HT receiver, just taking the burden of the mains off the receiver's power supply would help that set up. So I really didn't try to one up you or make this any competition but the more we discuss the matter the more I realize you are really just wrong all the way around. The fact that the center gets most of the movies emphasis is really irrelevant to amplifier size and made so by proper set up of the system. Using your logic 5-channel amps would have double the power in one channel for the center. But in the real world all 5 channels are created equal.
    Don't talk to me about logic. You lack the facilities. As I said before, and which you seem incapable of grasping, is that one should put the amp with the most reserve in the channel(s) that place the most demands on the system.

    It's kind of like putting the smartest kids in the spelling bee or sending them off for academic competition, something with which you're most likely not familiar.

  11. #11
    Audio Hobbyist Since 1969 Glen B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Well, if you can justify your answer this way, fine, but I still say that given a choice, the channel with the most demand should get the most powerful amplifier. That would be the center channel, and I say it should be at least as powerful as the front right and left channels.

    This echos the generally accepted standards that most knowledgable people follow. It's sort of a GAAP of HT. Since he asked, it was only fair that he should be made aware of this.
    You are correct that it is the accepted practice for the front channels to have equal power, but in my system as I stated above, I use a 200+ watt amp on the R+L front channels and three 100W receiver channels on the center and surrounds. The 100 watts on the center is more than adequate for my HT use at the loudest levels I ever listen to, and the fact that there is 200 watts on the R+L channels does not make one iota of an audible difference to my ears. I could maybe see this being a problem if I were maxing out the 100 watts on the center or close to it, but that is not the case. I just wanted to add my $.02.

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    Thanks Guys!! White Power! (white noise that is!)

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