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Which preamp would you sell?
Well, I've been wanting to get a remote controlled preamp to replace my old Apt Holman purchased in 1979 and still going strong albeit having had a few trips to the repair shop. Don't knock it! As line stage, at least, it's remarkably detail and transparent, and it's full-functioned to say the least (apart from RC operation).
So now two different replacement units are on their way to me! Probably a classic trap: I bought a second unit while the eBay auction was still in progress where I expected to be out bid. I scored two completely different but pretty nice units, viz.
- Adcom GFP-750. Adcom's still-current, top of the line stereo preamp that features selectable active or passive operation. (This is the eBay one.) It got a great review in Stereophile a few years ago. http://www.adcom.com/preamplifiers/gfp750.htm
- McIntosh C712. Discontinued in '98, one Mac's simpler preamps, but, of course, still pretty full featured. And that McIntosh look! I'm a sucker for that: see pics below.
OK, I don't have a use or the space for three preamps. The Apt Holman I might just keep because I'll get essentially nothing for it, and besides, I have a sentimental attachment. But one of the others have probably got to go!
Interestingly, both units are pretty close to the same price, so let's ignore that aspect. Othewise, which unit would you sell and why?
Mac pics, (love the back-lit labels) ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Well, I've been wanting to get a remote controlled preamp to replace my old Apt Holman purchased in 1979 and still going strong albeit having had a few trips to the repair shop. Don't knock it! As line stage, at least, it's remarkably detail and transparent, and it's full-functioned to say the least (apart from RC operation).
So now two different replacement units are on their way to me! Probably a classic trap: I bought a second unit while the eBay auction was still in progress where I expected to be out bid. I scored two completely different but pretty nice units, viz.
- Adcom GFP-750. Adcom's still-current, top of the line stereo preamp that features selectable active or passive operation. (This is the eBay one.) It got a great review in Stereophile a few years ago. http://www.adcom.com/preamplifiers/gfp750.htm
- McIntosh C712. Discontinued in '98, one Mac's simpler preamps, but, of course, still pretty full featured. And that McIntosh look! I'm a sucker for that: see pics below.
OK, I don't have a use or the space for three preamps. The Apt Holman I might just keep because I'll get essentially nothing for it, and besides, I have a sentimental attachment. But one of the others have probably got to go!
Interestingly, both units are pretty close to the same price, so let's ignore that aspect. Othewise, which unit would you sell and why?
Mac pics, (love the back-lit labels) ...
Wow you have quite a decision ahead of you. I would not make a decision until you have heard them both in your system. I have to agree about the McIntosh look. Timeless and classic but the Adcom is also a good looking piece of equipment. I would think the McIntosh would hold it's value. Keep the APT/Holman for the classic it is.
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Thanks, good advice
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Originally Posted by JohnMichael
Wow you have quite a decision ahead of you. I would not make a decision until you have heard them both in your system. I have to agree about the McIntosh look. Timeless and classic but the Adcom is also a good looking piece of equipment. I would think the McIntosh would hold it's value. Keep the APT/Holman for the classic it is.
Yes, I will listen to both before deciding. I think that if it's sound is basically as good as the Adcom's, I'll keep the McIntosh -- it might hold its value better and just I can't resist the look :22: The Mac also has a phono preamp built in.
In addition, I got a really good deal on the Mac because it has a small chip on the glass front panel. Most likely I can get a replacement panel from McIntosh, but it would require additional out-of-pocket to realize the unit's "clean" value. Personally I can live with the chipped panel for a while. (The pic below is a stock photo.)
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Not knocking the Mac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Well, I've been wanting to get a remote controlled preamp to replace my old Apt Holman purchased in 1979 and still going strong albeit having had a few trips to the repair shop. Don't knock it! As line stage, at least, it's remarkably detail and transparent, and it's full-functioned to say the least (apart from RC operation).
So now two different replacement units are on their way to me! Probably a classic trap: I bought a second unit while the eBay auction was still in progress where I expected to be out bid. I scored two completely different but pretty nice units, viz.
- Adcom GFP-750. Adcom's still-current, top of the line stereo preamp that features selectable active or passive operation. (This is the eBay one.) It got a great review in Stereophile a few years ago. http://www.adcom.com/preamplifiers/gfp750.htm
- McIntosh C712. Discontinued in '98, one Mac's simpler preamps, but, of course, still pretty full featured. And that McIntosh look! I'm a sucker for that: see pics below.
OK, I don't have a use or the space for three preamps. The Apt Holman I might just keep because I'll get essentially nothing for it, and besides, I have a sentimental attachment. But one of the others have probably got to go!
Interestingly, both units are pretty close to the same price, so let's ignore that aspect. Othewise, which unit would you sell and why?
Mac pics, (love the back-lit labels) ...
But I like the Adcom better. I guess I'm a sucker for a passive-pre. I can here the difference with mine. I've put it up against some pretty big competition and it's always carried the day.
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I take your point
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Originally Posted by Geoffcin
But I like the Adcom better. I guess I'm a sucker for a passive-pre. I can here the difference with mine. I've put it up against some pretty big competition and it's always carried the day.
Geoff,
I wouldn't be amazed if the Adcom sounds better than the McIntosh, passive, or active for that matter. However if they are very close, (to my decrepid ears), I'll likely keep the Mac.
One reason, as I implied in my earlier response, is that in the short term I can likely realize more cash sellling the Adcom.
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Just remember the old addege;
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Originally Posted by Feanor
Geoff,
I wouldn't be amazed if the Adcom sounds better than the McIntosh, passive, or active for that matter. However if they are very close, (to my decrepid ears), I'll likely keep the Mac.
One reason, as I implied in my earlier response, is that in the short term I can likely realize more cash sellling the Adcom.
Once you go "Mac" you never go back!
What do you want for the Adcom? I just might be tempted....
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Well ...
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Originally Posted by Geoffcin
Once you go "Mac" you never go back!
What do you want for the Adcom? I just might be tempted....
If you're actually interested, I'd be hoping for $750 plus shipping to the buyer. I paid about $685 plus shipping, but the unit's remote doesn't work, (although the unit responds to another Adcom remote that the seller has). So I ordered a replacement from Adcom which cost me another $60.
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Keep both and build a headphone-only system around the Mac!
(But I can't throw away or sell anything.)
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That's pretty much the going rate
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Originally Posted by Feanor
If you're actually interested, I'd be hoping for $750 plus shipping to the buyer. I paid about $685 plus shipping, but the unit's remote doesn't work, (although the unit responds to another Adcom remote that the seller has). So I ordered a replacement from Adcom which cost me another $60.
Have you hooked it up yet? How does it sound?
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We'll see !!
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Originally Posted by dean_martin
Keep both and build a headphone-only system around the Mac!
(But I can't throw away or sell anything.)
Actually my old Apt Holman has a pretty good headphone amp build in. And it's controls are helpful for headphone listening, too.
:12:
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Yep, that's what I figured
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Originally Posted by Geoffcin
Have you hooked it up yet? How does it sound?
Yeah, US$750 is about it; new price is $1500.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...20Preamplifier
No, I haven't heard it yet -- still in transit. Most likely it will arrive tomorrow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Actually my old Apt Holman has a pretty good headphone amp build in. And it's controls are helpful for headphone listening, too.
:12:
That's sweet. I thought it probably did given its age. I have an old Sansui integrated amp with a powerful and clean headphone amp. I have a pair of Grados but I've thought about getting a pair of hard-to-drive Senns to give it a challenge. The Sansui's headphone amp seems to have more power than the ones in my newer gear. What phones do you use with the Apt Holman?
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Don't do much phone listening
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Originally Posted by dean_martin
That's sweet. I thought it probably did given its age. I have an old Sansui integrated amp with a powerful and clean headphone amp. I have a pair of Grados but I've thought about getting a pair of hard-to-drive Senns to give it a challenge. The Sansui's headphone amp seems to have more power than the ones in my newer gear. What phones do you use with the Apt Holman?
Except for portable, that is. In fact the only phones I have at the moment are AKG K26P's that I use with my iPod.
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hey dean, i also have a sansui amp with some grado phones!!!
and feanor, i have some AKG k71's that i sometimes use with my iPod (i use my Shure e2c's now)
as they say, great minds think alike
and feanor, nice to see another member close by, i'm in ottawa!
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GFP-750 impressions
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Originally Posted by Feanor
...
Adcom GFP-750. Adcom's still-current, top of the line stereo preamp that features selectable active or passive operation. (This is the eBay one.) It got a great review in Stereophile a few years ago. http://www.adcom.com/preamplifiers/gfp750.htm
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The Adcom arrived two days ago and I've been doing some listening; here are my impression -- not a full review by any means.
The Adcom is connect to my Behringer T1951 equalizer hence to my Bel Canto eVo2i integrated. The Adcom I've been using in passive mode; the Bel Canto (which is an integrated) is set at the recommended unit gain setting. I did a very little bit of listening with the Adcom connected directly to the Bel using the balanced connectors, however this is not the way I'll be using it so I didn't spend much time.
My old Apt Holman setup was a bit different. It was also connected to the Behringer and so on, but I did not use the Apt's gain control. Output from the Apt was from its Processor Out connections; however note that the unit has output buffer op-amps so the output is not passive, even without the gain stages. I controlled volumne using the Bel's volume control, so it was usually set below unit gain.
OK, enough about that: what about the sound? Well honestly I wasn't expecting much difference from the Apt Holman. And there isn't much difference, but what there is is good or that's my impression. Contrary to any specific expectation, the bass is the improvement I noticed: quite small, but more dynamic and bit fuller especially at the lowest frequencies. Also I fancy I hear more, or at least less softened, detail from the Adcom -- no, I couldn't pass a standard ABX double blind test! This was most apparent when the Adcom was directly connected to the Bel Canto.
I haven't got the McIntosh yet; middle of next week most likely.
See the Adcom on my rack ...
http://gallery.audioreview.com/showp...&ppuser=199052
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Nice review
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
The Adcom arrived two days ago and I've been doing some listening; here are my impression -- not a full review by any means.
The Adcom is connect to my Behringer T1951 equalizer hence to my Bel Canto eVo2i integrated. The Adcom I've been using in passive mode; the Bel Canto (which is an integrated) is set at the recommended unit gain setting. I did a very little bit of listening with the Adcom connected directly to the Bel using the balanced connectors, however this is not the way I'll be using it so I didn't spend much time.
My old Apt Holman setup was a bit different. It was also connected to the Behringer and so on, but I did not use the Apt's gain control. Output from the Apt was from its Processor Out connections; however note that the unit has output buffer op-amps so the output is not passive, even without the gain stages. I controlled volumne using the Bel's volume control, so it was usually set below unit gain.
OK, enough about that: what about the sound? Well honestly I wasn't expecting much difference from the Apt Holman. And there isn't much difference, but what there is is good or that's my impression. Contrary to any specific expectation, the bass is the improvement I noticed: quite small, but more dynamic and bit fuller especially at the lowest frequencies. Also I fancy I hear more, or at least less softened, detail from the Adcom -- no, I couldn't pass a standard ABX double blind test! This was most apparent when the Adcom was directly connected to the Bel Canto.
I haven't got the McIntosh yet; middle of next week most likely.
Between quality products the subtle differences you've discribed are exactly what I would expect too. I do think that the Mac will sound different than either of your preamps. I can't wait to read your review on that shootout.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Well
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McIntosh C712. Discontinued in '98, one Mac's simpler preamps, but, of course, still pretty full featured. And that McIntosh look! I'm a sucker for that: see pics below.
OK, I don't have a use or the space for three preamps. The Apt Holman I might just keep because I'll get essentially nothing for it, and besides, I have a sentimental attachment. But one of the others have probably got to go!
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The Mac finally arrived and I've been listening to it a lot for a couple days. Believe it, I really do love the McIntosh look -- see the pic below. OK, a lot of people hate it and it probably won't win any industrial design awards perhaps, but the retro looks as a certain je ne sais quoi for me.
As for the sound, I should say that it is a very listenable unit. Smooth yet detailed; very pleasant and easy to live with. Neverthess I found the details just slightly soften versus the Adcom GFP-750. And the Adcom was maybe just a tad more transparent. Nevertheless I could happily live with the Mac except for one thing.
And that is that my computer, attached via my M-Audio Audiophile USB, induced a low but audible, high-pitch whine in the system. I tried different cables and different input connections, but this annoying noise persisted. :crazy: So I swapped the Adcom back in and it was gone. So that was the clincher for me: I keep the Adcom.
As for the Mac, well I ought to sell it but I stil love the look. So maybe I'll hang on to it for a few months and maybe think of somewhere deploy it.
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