Pre-Amp, Integrated Amp

I was wondering what you gain by having a pre-amp and a amp as compared to just an integrated amp?

...each power supply can "concentrate" on it's specific task...flexibility is another. You can change/upgrade components easier...insert processors without using tape loops...if your pre- goes south you can plug your high-level sources directly into your power amp, as long as they have a volume control, that is. Perhaps you like features on a pre-amp that aren't available on an integrated, might be another. Maybe mono-block amps located close to your loudspeakers are what drives you...separate components are the only way to fly in that case.

I have a "vintage" integrated I use as a pre-amp/control center...two tape mon loops and other switching functions...wouldn't trade it for anything...started out using it as an integrated...upgraded with a higher powered power amp and used the internal stereo amp and an ambience enhancement unit to drive my rears...that worked out best for my purposes...

There are strong arguments for recievers and other combinations, it really depends on your long term goals.

Nowadays, with multi-channel and processing, it's gonna' get a little hairy wiring things up if you go separates...but you do retain that flexibility IMO.

jimHJJ(...just my take on things...)

At one time, the weight and size of a power transformer and two output transformers plus the heat generated by four high output power pentodes made it difficult and even impractical to put a preamp on the same chasis as a power amplifier especially for the higher power models. Look at a photo of for example a McIntosh MC275 power amp and a C 22 preamp and imagine the size and weight of combining them. A kind of high end mentality for separates was created, even for more modestly powered units. Today with transistors and intgrated circuits, there is no technical reason why an integrated amplifier can't be built to the same standards as separates. There is also no reason why removable jumpers can't allow you to electrically separate the preamp from the power amp and some receivers and integrated amplifiers allow just that. The additional power requirements for a solid state preamplifier are minimal so adding one to a high quality power amp should not present a packaging problem. However, the mind set that sees separates as inherently superior persists and so many manufacturers market them that way.

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Originally Posted by RobertKruz

I was wondering what you gain by having a pre-amp and a amp as compared to just an integrated amp?

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Usually it's power. For instance take the YBA integre DT integrated amplifier - if you had that amp on my speaker versus their 10K spearates chances are you are not going to hear a difference because 50 watts from the integrated is more than you will need with my speakers.

Most speakers 50 watts is more than enough but if you love to crank it then separates are key or you run some ridiculous 1ohm speakers.

Now there is also a curious issue with Bryston because their B60 integrated is very nice and all but if you compare their separate preamp and 3BST power amp you hear a much quiter overall noise factor and seemingly a tremendous amound more air. It's like going form a very very good 2d sound to 3 dimensions where there is just more there. On a very senstive speaker perhaps you would not hear it.

But some no doubt you may. But ALWAYS look at their integrated. My delaer always recommends an Integrated amp because he said they usually always sound just as good are cheaper take up less space on your rack - and they have the preout jacks anyway. Plus with all the passive preamps out - interconnects now actually take on a HUGE role in the sound you get - and hits the pocket book more as a result.

Air is a funny issue because it's less definable to me. I figured naively that separates would do it better - it has a visual cue as well since the preamp and amp are spearate and had more AIR around the physical boxes - that lack of internal interference then must mean that the soudn would not get clutterred up. Of course this is what dealers want you to think and I have not doubt they rig it all up to get this sound.

But I have heard integrated amps - one recently - the Audio Note Meishu and a NuVista Tube integrated that blows the myth/stereotype of integrated amps being inferior to the four winds - as well as tube amps but that's something else again. Admittedly both these amps probably cost more than most separates but still.

Power amps matter more for bass it appears which is why there are so many powered subwoofers. Receivers are not up to it - they can barely drive 2 speakers properly let alone 5 and then a sub? Forgettaboutit!!

With about 250 watts per channel, monster receivers like Marantz 2550 and 2600 could power a dozen pairs of Audio Note speakers all at once to deafening levels.

At least for solid state equipment, integrated or separate is almost invariably a marketing decision.

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Originally Posted by RobertKruz

I was wondering what you gain by having a pre-amp and a amp as compared to just an integrated amp?

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As has been suggested, the advantages to using separate SS equipment today is added flexibility and practicality when using high powered amps. While weight alone is certainly not a performance indicator, it does correlate to power supply capability. The 300 watt/channel Marantz receiver weighs 60 pounds. A current Pass Labs power amp of the same power runs 100 pounds. My tube monoblocks are 75 pounds each. As an old guy with vinyl, I use a phono source in addition to my CD source. I am aware of few integrated amps with high gain phono stages capable of driving a low output moving coil cartridge. While my preamp has six additional inputs and two separate tape monitor loops, I use none of that stuff nor the five position "mode" selector. With CD, I use high quality passive attenuators instead. When / if I retire vinyl, the preamp will go with it as well. Don't need one.

rw

The heaviest single item in a power amplifier, an integrated amplifier, or a receiver is usually the power transformer. There is no getting away from the fact that if you need a powerful amplifier which doesn't uses some kooky digital switching power supply but uses and honest full wave bridge, you need a large power transformer. It may be a tossup whethe a good strudy chasis or the electrolytic filter capacitors come next in weight. In a tube amplifier, output transformers and tube add a lot more weight, especially the transformers. By contrast, many preamps and tuners stripped of their cabinets and gingerbread weigh next to nothing and often ss units don't take up much space either. mm phono gain stage hardly adds any size or weight at all.