• 01-16-2006, 01:00 PM
    mika
    which power amp with Vandersteen?
    Hello.I have bought the Vandersteen 2CE Signature speakers.Great speakers but they need current.I want to drive them with a power amp but i dont know anything about which one to buy.Does anyone have a clue?
    Currently i am listening them with an av receiver,Denon AVR-2106. :(
  • 01-16-2006, 06:45 PM
    audiomadness
    Excellent speakers and am seriously considering upgrading my beloved Phase Techs to the Vandersteens. I've auditioned the Vandersteen lines extensively over the past few weeks from different dealers and have heard them powered by different amplifications(ie. McCormack DNA-500 power amp, and NAD C-372 integrated). I've heard them through other amps, but I chose these two to make a point. I'd have to say that the sound was incredible with both amplification with a slight edge going towards the McCormack in soundstage and overall detail, but w'ere talking minimal differences here but a lot in terms of price(for the amps that is).

    I'm sure they sound pretty good with your Denon Receiver, but you really do need some serious current to get them to come out. I wouldn't worry to much about which power amp to get, because I think the Vandersteen's will sound good with any respectable power amp and judging from what I heard between a $1K int. amp vs. one that's several thousand, the difference was there but not enough for me justify spending the extra dollars. Have fun with your search.
  • 01-17-2006, 12:39 PM
    topspeed
    I'm a little confused; The 2ce's have a minimum impedence of 4ohms, which isn't tough to drive at all. Why do you think the Vandy's need a lot of current? What is it about the Denon that you don't like? What improvements are you trying to achieve? I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but the more information you give us, the better we'll be able to answer your question. A budget would be good too.
  • 01-17-2006, 05:32 PM
    mika
    Well first of all they sound great even with the denon.
    But i have auditioned them at a dealers store with Thule power amp(not the best around,but better than denon) and everything sounded better.The soundstage,the bass control,the midrange,the high frequencies...everything.The speaker seemed to be bigger!

    I was thinking a price range from 1200-1500$.

    P.S.I was going to buy the Audiovector Mi3 standard,i had the money with me,but the dealer insisted that i should at least auditioned the vandys.Thank God i listened to him!
    It was love at first hear,not sight! :D After all they are not the best looking speakers around.But their sound....OH MY GOD!!!!
    I think everybody who wants to buy a speaker in this price range,should give them a look!
    :D
  • 01-17-2006, 06:16 PM
    audiomadness
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by topspeed
    I'm a little confused; The 2ce's have a minimum impedence of 4ohms, which isn't tough to drive at all
    Well, considering the 4 ohm rating, it would be difficult to drive with lesser capable receivers with poor power supplies. What I mean is that there are impedance dips that can occur where actual impedance drops to less that the rated impedance depending on the frequency. If the impedance drops below 4 ohms for a substantial portion of the frequency range, then the speaker will not be driven to its full potential by a current limited solid state amp.
  • 01-18-2006, 04:38 PM
    jocko_nc
    They do need a high current amp. Not that you have to go overboard to get the good sound, but the output from a typical AV receiver will not cut it. Been there, done that. Had a pair of 2Ce's for 14 years.

    I am probably going to rebuild them (at least a good go-through) and use them in the basement. I'd really like to know what actual upgrades came with the "signature", maybe make some modifcations myself.

    jocko
  • 01-18-2006, 04:41 PM
    jocko_nc
    I recently ran 2Ce's with a Yamaha RXV650, Adcom 545, and Carver Receiver (130 watt). The Yamaha just couldn't do it. The best scenario was using the Yamaha as a preamp, into either the Adcom or the power section of the Carver. Of the combinations, the Yamaha / Carver was best. The difference is clear. I think it has to do with the power supplies and current draw.

    I like to play loud.

    jocko
  • 01-18-2006, 04:41 PM
    jocko_nc
    It may also be that Vandersteens are notorously inefficient. To get some punch out of them, you have to push a lot of electrons.
  • 01-18-2006, 05:02 PM
    topspeed
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by audiomadness
    Well, considering the 4 ohm rating, it would be difficult to drive with lesser capable receivers with poor power supplies. What I mean is that there are impedance dips that can occur where actual impedance drops to less that the rated impedance depending on the frequency. If the impedance drops below 4 ohms for a substantial portion of the frequency range, then the speaker will not be driven to its full potential by a current limited solid state amp.
    2ce's are 8ohm nominal, 4 ohm minimum (which is why I stated so). I know how impedence curves work, but thanks anyway.

    Mika,

    You've got a healthy budget. I'm of the belief that amps do indeed sound different. Therefore, you're going to have to decide which one matches your speakers and your tastes best. If you're really concerned about current, you should consider a switching amp. Switching amps are load invariant, meaning they deliver the same amount of current regardless of the impedence. A few of the more notable manufacturers of these amps are Bel Canto, PS Audio, and Spectral. Jeff Rowland also makes them, but you'll have to go used (which is a good idea) and even then, I doubt it will fall into your price bracket. Many consider switching amps to meld the magic of tubes with the slam and depth of ss. I tend to agree but YMMV.

    You should also consider tubes. Cayin, ASL, and Jolida all should have something within your budget and may have the sound you're looking for. Richard's factory is a stone's throw from where I live and his fans are legion. I know many of them extol the synergy of the Vandys + tubes.

    Finally, buying a used amp is a real option for you. They have no moving parts and many have transferrable warranties. Check audiogon and see if anything tickles your fancy. Pass, Threshold, BAT, Rotel...the list goes on. You'll get excellent bang for your buck and most audiogon'rs treat their equipment better than their mother.

    Hope this helps.
  • 01-19-2006, 08:34 AM
    jocko_nc
    Do what Topspeed says and you ought to have a great sound...
  • 01-19-2006, 10:05 AM
    Feanor
    2 Attachment(s)
    Check out digitals
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mika
    ...
    I was thinking a price range from 1200-1500$.
    ...
    :D
    I'd start with the Bel Canto S300 from their new, ICEpower-based eONE series. 150 wt > 8 ohm, 300 > 4; MSRP is US$1600.
  • 01-19-2006, 12:34 PM
    topspeed
    When did Bel Canto switch topologies? I thought they were Tripath based? Where did the eVo's go?!?
  • 01-20-2006, 07:07 AM
    Feanor
    eVo's are gone
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by topspeed
    When did Bel Canto switch topologies? I thought they were Tripath based? Where did the eVo's go?!?
    The ICEpower power amps have been out for only 2-3 months. The eVo's were dropped from the current products listing only in the last month or less.

    I heard a unconfirmed rumor that Tripath is having financial problems hence might not be a reliable supplier. Thus the ICEpower switch might have anything to do with superior sound.

    On the other hand, it does come with a substantial price reduction, ($1600 for an eOne/S300 versus $3200 for an eVo2). This might because the eONEs use a switching power supply, likely the one that can be had integral with the ICEpower module.
  • 01-22-2006, 04:00 AM
    mika
    Thank you guys.You've been very helpful.
    I really have to buy a power amp because i have heard what the vandys can do with more current.Thanks a lot.