power amp for proac response d two

[02audionoob]

Would you have an opportunity to audition a totally different amp with ProAc speakers at an audio shop? If so, what manaufacturers do they sell at that shop?

[daspaceman]

Hello,

I think i`m going for a class a integrated, I think the Sugden A21SE , as from what I read it matches very well the proacs.

What do you think?

[02audionoob]

Based on reply #20, paragraph 3, I like that choice. Too bad you don't live in a cold climate, though. The amp could serve double duty as a bathroom heater...

[daspaceman]

Based on reply #20, paragraph 3, I like that choice. Too bad you don't live in a cold climate, though. The amp could serve double duty as a bathroom heater...

I have an airconditioned living room shouldnt be a problem in summer.. and yes in winter it could be used AS a heather :P
Does it really get that hot??

I`m trying to locate a second hand sugden a21se or better still a master class integrated or pre/pow !

will let you know the outcome

[02audionoob]

I have an airconditioned living room shouldnt be a problem in summer.. and yes in winter it could be used AS a heather :P
Does it really get that hot??

I`m trying to locate a second hand sugden a21se or better still a master class integrated or pre/pow !

will let you know the outcome

I'm exaggerating a little, obviously. I ran a Google search on the words Sugden A21SE hot and got some results, so it's apparently a bit of an issue.

[RGA]

The Sugden is a SET amplifier - it's basically a SS version of a Single Ended tube amplifier. SET stands for Single Ended topology. IME Single Ended amplifiers regardless of tube or SS sound better even on tough to drive speaker.

The Sugden runs hot and some report issues with a hot volume knob as well. Used ones also often have the power on light fail - not a big deal but don't forget to turn it off!!

There is no question that the A21a and SE tube amps can be more finnicky - usually offer less features less power, run hot and anytime something runs hot it will likely fail sooner than something that does not. With well designed tube amps there is still the possibility that when a tube fails it will take the board it is sitting on with it. A well designed tube amp is usually a little larger and has separate boards so if the preamp tube goes it takes only the preamp board with it. Still you have to remember there are 60 year old tube amps that are still working just fine to this day. When a SS amp fails in a big complex receiver that you paid $5000 for it will probably end up being better off scrapped because there may not be any replacement parts for it and even fewer who would be able to figure out what failed. Tubes are simply - you look and it's usually either a cap or the tube - replace and your done.

If I were you I would really just try and build a separate 2 channel rig. Home theater is super - I want to build a home theater - I have been meaning to get to it for a decade but things keep coming up. Since you already have the rig - building the 2 channel is probably less expensive and can be a lot of fun.

Why not try another direction and see if tubes would be your thing? You can get cheaper tube amps than even the Sugden. For regular tube amps you could look at Grant Fidelity - they are coming out with a new tube integrated amp that is actually designed by Ian Grant and made in China.

It will be under $2k and called the W30GT after one of his favorite car engines. What makes it a bit of a killer amp is the features it has. It will have a tube heaphone amp section (not the cheap OP headphone out) which means it will be a full on tube headphone amp, it has preamp and power amp outs so you can run it as a preamp or as a power amp making it very versatile as an upgrade - the Sugden A21a has neither feature and costs nearly double. The GF amp also has a full on board digital to analog converter as well as USB inputs and I believe fully Blanced connections (not toally sure on this one) and remote. But it's not out yet. The prototype sounded nice at CES. Their stuff is built like battle ships.

My other favorite sub $2k tube amps is the Audio Note Kit One which expensive for a kit but uses higher quality parts than what you would normally see anywhere near the price. but you need to be able to use a soldering iron. http://www.audionotekits.com/index.html

The Audio Note kit one is a true SET but you would need relatively easy to drive speakes of ~90db sensitive or higher that don't have low impedance characteristics.

Various tube amps have pros and cons - 300b types sometimes sound softer and sweeter and lack a little grip of other types like 2a3 or 211's. So it requires careful speaker matching. KT 88's like in the Grant Fidelity Rita are uber powerful but lack a little nuance. My OTO uses EL84s which are "beautiful" but lack power at the frequency extremes offering a lusher slightly darker perspective - A jazz dream though.

The other thing about tube amps is that like light bulbs you need to replace them. EL84s offer the advantage that they are incredibly inexpensive compared to other types. You can spend a lot too but the cheaper options are many. 300b types can be $300 per tube to many thousands.

So if you think of going down the tube route and you see a tube amp you like - check out what type of tubes it uses and then check this site to see what a replacement will cost - http://thetubestore.com/

Also most tube amps require you to "bias" the tubes like a tune up on your car. The SET amps from Audio Note and some other SET amps autio bias - so you just take it out and stick the new tube in and you're done. With the GF amp you need to connect a volt meter and adjust the bias so you don't blow your new tubes.

Other tube makers I really liked at CES for a lowish price -

Rogue Audio http://www.rogueaudio.com/
Triode audio (japan) http://www.triode.co.jp/index_eng.html
Mystere http://www.mystere-usa.com/

Tubes can be a big pain in the arse - and the reason people put up with the infernal irritating things is, the sound! For most tube guys once you go this route - it's tough to go back - provided it was a good set-up to start with.

[ppat]

I have the Proac Response D Two's. Using them with a Cambridge Audio 840E preamp, and a NAD C275 BEE amp. This is a new amp for NAD, with a bunch of trickle down from their Master series. Sells for $1,500 CDN. It's 150 w/ch at 8 ohms, and 410 w/ch into 4 ohms.

For me this is a really good match. Lots of power, and an even presentation.

Ppat

[frenchmon]

Sugden was making 10 watt amps for a great many years from the late 60's through the 80's with a lot of those British speakers. Some tube amps are certainly "wussy" in that they start to sound like mush but Rogue and Grant Fidelity are in the 50 watt range and sound more like 500 watts. Rogue was driving Wilson Sophia IIs to very loud levels and would have no problem with most of the stuff on this board. I'd rather pay for quality watts than quantity watts. But this seems to be a tough notion for many to accept - two and half decades of marketing to overcome.

RGA...Is Rogue really that good? I had one time thought of Rogue as a possibility, but have read more than one review that said Rogue was noisy. Here is one such review.http://www.10audio.com/rogue_metis.htm

If there is noise, then how audible is it?


fenchmon

[K-High-Fi]

Hello,

I was thinking long ago having ProAc D two for music and 5.1 surrounds, I heard their design similar to Harbeth BBC but little smaller, can anyone please give brief description how they sound? How perform with high volume (I heard show some compression). Also is it good match to Krell KAV-500 amp?

Thank you.

[RGA]

RGA...Is Rogue really that good? I had one time thought of Rogue as a possibility, but have read more than one review that said Rogue was noisy. Here is one such review.http://www.10audio.com/rogue_metis.htm

If there is noise, then how audible is it?


fenchmon

I heard the Rogue gear at CES - heard no noise of any kind. Tube amplifiers though can suffer from noise issues but then so can SS - depends on the amp. Rogue makes many amps - maybe one is noisier or perhaps it was the specific unit.