Pass Labs X150.5 Audition.......Almost

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Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington

Just for curiosity sake. What other amps would you put in the Pass Labs league? Maybe that's a question with too many variables. I would put Bryston, Ayre and Krell on a ladder a couple steps lower. They are the only brands I've listened to so far.

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Bryston, Krell, maybe Parasound JC's, and various other less well-know marques such as MBL would be in the same league of s/s amps as Pass Labs. However the one in particular that I would like to hear is Ayre.

I would speculate that the Ayre X-5xe vs. the X150.5 would be slighty warmer, less bright on the top end, but maybe a tad less transparent and dynamic. I'd for sure like to confirm that though.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Hi Harley...I got the wrong amp.

The xs-300 is $85k...not the Xs-350.5...my bad

Reno Hi-Fi

But with all that, you focused on the review rather than my point which is All those amps are in the same league as far as hifi is concerned. All those amps are great! All those amps have the highest and best engineers, all those amps are built like tanks. All those amps have the highest performance. None of the amps are perfect. It becomes a matter of system matching and preference at that level. Sure you are biased towards Pass Labs, thats understandable but there are trade offs with each and every one of those amps. I would be happy with any one of those amps. And yes....Just because an amp cost $100k and another amp cost $75k they can be considered in the same league.

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I don't think that you are being fair to Harley by calling him biased towards Pass Labs. That would indicate that he can't find any other amps appealing besides Pass, and that is not what he has indicated so far. Should we say you are biased towards Vincent, certainly not. You can still appreciate the products that other companies produce. Now our old friend RGA we could probably say was biased towards Audio Note.

I am not biased toward anything, I just know that for the sound character that I have searched for for many years the Pass designs seem to fit this sound the best out of what I have heard. And you are right when it gets up to that price area a difference of $50,000 does not guaranty better. But my point is that the reviewer should have stated that his reviews for for a certain price max and under and stated that there are better versions of Pass and Plinius designs out there that might be better than anything he had heard in that whole test by a far margin. i would think if I were to do a test like that I would set a price maximum and try to find the "reference" top level products up to the max price and if there were any that were not the best that particular company has to offer I would take note of that mentally and otherwise. I think for a audio reviewer it is a duty to notice and take note of things like this in a review as to not misinform potential customers of these companies of what they can get if they are looking for absolute reference price is no object audio products. I know that most or all of us here have our personal set limitations of how much we can spend on audio and keep everything else going and not be divorced and broke so most of this does not apply to us. I know I love my Pass amp and feel fortunate to be able to find one at a used/more affordable price and I might not ever see myself going up to the XA or XS level and that is fine with me because in my everyday life my X series does my music due diligence. I just think some reviewers don't realize that they have a duty to inform and educate people on products and when true reference products are called for in a review get true reference products and not entry level products facing reference products. That was all I was trying to say.

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Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington

I don't think that you are being fair to Harley by calling him biased towards Pass Labs. That would indicate that he can't find any other amps appealing besides Pass, and that is not what he has indicated so far. Should we say you are biased towards Vincent, certainly not. You can still appreciate the products that other companies produce. Now our old friend RGA we could probably say was biased towards Audio Note.

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Well yes I am biased towards Vincent some what. But that does not mean I cant find other amps that are just as good...because I have. I meant no disrespect.

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Originally Posted by harley .guy07

I am not biased toward anything, I just know that for the sound character that I have searched for for many years the Pass designs seem to fit this sound the best out of what I have heard.

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Well that is biased Harley. Nothing wrong with that

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And you are right when it gets up to that price area a difference of $50,000 does not guaranty better. But my point is that the reviewer should have stated that his reviews for for a certain price max and under and stated that there are better versions of Pass and Plinius designs out there that might be better than anything he had heard in that whole test by a far margin. i would think if I were to do a test like that I would set a price maximum and try to find the "reference" top level products up to the max price and if there were any that were not the best that particular company has to offer I would take note of that mentally and otherwise. I think for a audio reviewer it is a duty to notice and take note of things like this in a review as to not misinform potential customers of these companies of what they can get if they are looking for absolute reference price is no object audio products. I know that most or all of us here have our personal set limitations of how much we can spend on audio and keep everything else going and not be divorced and broke so most of this does not apply to us. I know I love my Pass amp and feel fortunate to be able to find one at a used/more affordable price and I might not ever see myself going up to the XA or XS level and that is fine with me because in my everyday life my X series does my music due diligence. I just think some reviewers don't realize that they have a duty to inform and educate people on products and when true reference products are called for in a review get true reference products and not entry level products facing reference products. That was all I was trying to say.

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I agree...the guy should have been more up front with the reviews.

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Originally Posted by frenchmon

Well yes I am biased towards Vincent some what. But that does not mean I cant find other amps that are just as good...because I have. I meant no disrespect.

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According to the dictionary:

Biased is an inclination of temperament or outlook to present or hold a partial perspective and a refusal to consider the possible merits of alternative points of view.

You don't have a bias and neither does Harley. You may favor Vincent or Musical Fidelity or Music Hall.

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Originally Posted by harley .guy07

I have actually heard of that Chesky disk from a friend that is also into this hobby. He said it helped him immensely with system setup when he moved the last time. I am glad you brought that up because I was going to order that disk back then and totally forgot to do so. I will have to get on that and see how my system measures up too.

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I just listened to the Chesky disc with the Pass and it truly is a marvel at how good the recordings are. It has me rethinking if I really need a new preamp like the X1 or should I just stick with my VA preamp which sounds spectacular. I think that the X1 would just give me a little more detail and resolution with a little more air and TP.

Amazon.com: Ultimate Demonstration Disc: Chesky Records' Guide to Critical Listening: Music

I also listened to this Chesky disc that has some of the same songs that is on the demonstration disc.

Amazon.com: World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings: Music

It is a Hybrid SACD and the CD layer is phenomenol. I wish I had a high end SACD player because I can't imagine it sounding any better.

I am now thinking that maybe I should save my money and buy a pair of Magnepan 3.7's next summer.

yeah I actually found a friend here that actually had that disk and let me borrow it until mine arrived and I can say the same of my system. for me not having upgraded speakers yet my system did really well in this test overall. I don't think it had the depth of some of the super systems out there but for the speakers I am currently running it did rather well and way better than I thought it would do honestly. Raven, that's actually how I feel about my Preamp as well. I wounder how a Pass pre would do with my system but with the Nuforce doing so well its hard to put that up on the list of things to do when I have other things that I need ot address first(speakers for one). Not to say that my speakers are bad because they aren't at all I just believe that the rest of my gear has risen to the point that my speakers are now the bottleneck.

When I went all balanced it was a nice improvement in control and dynamics. I know they say there's a conversion to balanced when using single ended but when I put the last step, going balanced from CDP to preamp things really improved. Read the Pass manual about the patented balanced circuit, it seems to make sense to take advantage of it for optimum performance.

I personally would think the X1 would provide as much improvement as the X250 over an AVA amp. The X1 is older but it's a two chassis quality piece. .

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Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington

According to the dictionary:

Biased is an inclination of temperament or outlook to present or hold a partial perspective and a refusal to consider the possible merits of alternative points of view.

You don't have a bias and neither does Harley. You may favor Vincent or Musical Fidelity or Music Hall.

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Thank Jack. Good to know.