Parasound & PSB...

[PeruvianSkies]

Sup gangstas....

As many of you are well aware I have posted before saying how I have thought about upgrading my current Parasound Halo A23 amp to help drive my PSB Platinum T6's. My long-term goal is to drive them with a pair of Classe monoblocks, but until I round up that type of cash I have thought about a mid-term upgrade. Essentially my first thought was to buy another Halo A23 and do one of two things...

Either I could bi-amp the PSB's with two A23's or I could double my output by running each amp in bridge mode and use one amp per speaker.

So here's my question...

I am not a big fan right now of doing the bi-amping method because I don't really want to invest in more cables, especially running another set of speakers TO the speakers themselves when right now my PS Audio Xstreams are doing great and are so darn thick that running another set would prove difficult.

So was really considering driving them with 1 amp each, but I ran into a slight snag...maybe.

I was reading the manual for the Halo A23 and it specifically says that you should not connect a speaker with an impedance of less than 8 Ohms when you are in bridge mode. My PSB's are rated 4 ohms nominal and 4 ohms minimal.

I guess this means a NO NO....right?

[Dusty Chalk]

Yup, sounds right.

You could impedance match with those things from anti-cables...these...but I don't know if you're a minimalist or not, they might defeat the purpose of what you're trying to do. It's too bad your white zombie audio don't make speaker cables...

[anamorphic96]

Out of curiosity. Have you ever tried your T6's with the C372 driving them ? Thats a really stout amp with a killer sound and reputation.

As to your original question. I would not suggest driving your T6's with the A23's bridged. I have tried this in the past in a couple of theaters I worked at and it caused the amps to clip way to soon. Bi-amping IMO is the way to go in your set up. You should definitely hear a very noticeable improvement all the way around.

[PeruvianSkies]

Out of curiosity. Have you ever tried your T6's with the C372 driving them ? Thats a really stout amp with a killer sound and reputation.

As to your original question. I would not suggest driving your T6's with the A23's bridged. I have tried this in the past in a couple of theaters I worked at and it caused the amps to clip way to soon. Bi-amping IMO is the way to go in your set up. You should definitely hear a very noticeable improvement all the way around.

I did actually try the NAD instead of the Parasound and there was a huge difference. I thought for sure that the NAD would be about the same if not better, but was wrong. The Parasound amp is super smooth and seems more accurate to me, while the NAD feels more aggressive but did not seem to have as much punch overall. That is not to say that the NAD is weak, but I like using it for my surrounds. I think I am going to bi-amp, but still not sure...I am currently on the lookout for a few amps on eBay. I am actually thinking about going with something from PS Audio for my mid-term phase until (hopefully) getting either Parasound JC-1's or a set of Classe Audio monoblocks. So we shall see. I recently had the chance to check out a few places that had PS Audio amps and I was blown away by how much of a workhorse they are, yet they have hardly any heat and it's almost like they aren't even working if you didn't hear such great results.

[PeruvianSkies]

I decided to give this a whirl again after your post. It made me think about it just to try again. So for the past hour I went back and forth between the two and the difference was obvious. Again the Parasound is super clean and smooth, while the NAD seemed to have a bit of trouble during quicker passages in the music. While it certainly had a presence of power it was unable to really deliver the super tight and clean sound that I have grown accustomed to.

However, I am still aiming for the Classe's as they were able to really take the Platinum's to a whole new level of sonics. They were able to accurately give them both power and refinement. I am still curious how the PS Audio amps would sound in my setup, so I might give that a shot in the next week or two. If that goes well than I will probably use my Parasound amp to drive my center channel, which I am looking to upgrade in the next year to the Platinum C2.

[PeruvianSkies]

While in the process of doing this I decided to change up the banana plug connections on my amp-end of the T6's speaker connection on the PS Audio Xstreams, which simply screw off and replaced them with the spades instead. I use spades at the speaker end already for a tighter connection, but was not doing so at the amp end. I wish I had done this earlier!!!! The immediate difference of this is ...well, I am still shaking my head. I happened to have a Sarah Brightman* CD in and within milliseconds I knew something was different. The highs are even more distinguished and the music even feels more alive. It's almost like getting new speakers again!!! I don't know how this could be with just changing from the bananas to the spades, but my ears are not fooling me on this one. If it were a microscopic detail than I might think so, but this difference is so IN YOUR FACE that it's impossible to not notice. I wonder if the banana's were just not making as solid of a connection and I was missing some detail? Hmmmm.

*On WHITER SHADE OF PALE there was something different within the first few seconds. During the instrumental opening I was actually able to detect or actually hear the separation between a female vocal that is blending in with the orchestral notes. Before when I was hearing this I actually thought that it was a synthesized blending sound that linked the orchestral sounds, but never did I realize that it was a female vocal blending so tightly together until now. This only goes to show that you need the ability with your equipment to hear that level of separation, which oddly enough I wasn't even hearing and now (just by going to spades) seems to be quite distinguished. Crazy eh??? I have the SACD of this same song and I am going to give that a whirl too.

[Feanor]

I'm loving my Monarchys located very close to my Maggies and driving them through very short speaker cables, i.e. 3 foot. My cables are cheapos -- unlike the Xstreams which are a major investment -- Monster 14 ga. bi-wire. (My question: are short, relatively cheap cables actually an alternative to significantly longer, more expensive ones?) The Monarchys, on the other hand, are driven by relatively long, 6 foot balanced interconnects.

For me the bigger deterent to bi-amping is the crossover issue. What to do?

• Passive or active bi-amping? That is, two amps, (or four monoblocks), driven full range with crossover provided by the speakers own, passive network?
• Or an active crossover between the preamp amps with two subalternatives:
  • Leave the speakers' crossover as-is, or
  • By-pass the speakers' own crossover networks. This raises important issues. Often the speakers network provides unbalance crossover charateristics, (viz. high-pass is 2nd order while low pass is 3rd order), and/or the network provides response equalization, such as notch filters, that can't be provided by the active crossover hence would probably require, in addition, and active equalizer.

[PeruvianSkies]

I'm loving my Monarchys located very close to my Maggies and driving them through very short speaker cables, i.e. 3 foot. My cables are cheapos -- unlike the Xstreams which are a major investment -- Monster 14 ga. bi-wire. (My question: are short, relatively cheap cables actually an alternative to significantly longer, more expensive ones?) The Monarchys, on the other hand, are driven by relatively long, 6 foot balanced interconnects.

For me the bigger deterent to bi-amping is the crossover issue. What to do?

• Passive or active bi-amping? That is, two amps, (or four monoblocks), driven full range with crossover provided by the speakers own, passive network?
• Or an active crossover between the preamp amps with two subalternatives:
  • Leave the speakers' crossover as-is, or
  • By-pass the speakers' own crossover networks. This raises important issues. Often the speakers network provides unbalance crossover charateristics, (viz. high-pass is 2nd order while low pass is 3rd order), and/or the network provides response equalization, such as notch filters, that can't be provided by the active crossover hence would probably require, in addition, and active equalizer.

I am probably going to consult with PSB about what to do and what would be best with their speakers.

[anamorphic96]

Just a thought. When you used the NAD did you use it with it's pre-amp stage or did you use the Pioneer as the pre-amp ?

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm a big believer in biamping, even without the crossover (leaving the one on the speaker side). Just having the reserves the woofer needs should improve things somewhat.

It also allows one to progress in steps -- first without the crossover; then if one observes sufficient benefit, move on to adding a crossover.

[PeruvianSkies]

Just a thought. When you used the NAD did you use it with it's pre-amp stage or did you use the Pioneer as the pre-amp ?

Funny you ask that...I did try both ways and tested it out, the NAD just can't seem to compete with the Parasounds smoothness and quick handling. The NAD definitely had the power there, but it wasn't what I prefer when it comes to accuracy in the source. I am learning how to notice things like this and I have become much better over the past year and especially over the past 6 months with my new speakers.

BTW....I just bought a Parasound Halo D3 Universal Player and it will replace my Denon 2910, which has been a great unit. The purchase came unexpectadly as I was given an offer I was UNABLE to refuse. I shall keep you posted on how this player compares.