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Outlaw Mono Block specs
I've been looking at different 2ch amps lately and was considering the outlaw monoblocks. They don't have much listed on their specs except that they are 200wpc at 8ohms and 300wpc at 4ohms. So I emailed tech support and they could not tell me if they were a true high current amp or what the amperage rating was or the dymnamic headroom specs. All they said was that they were rated at 20,000uF capacitance which tells me that they are not truly a quality high current amp. I found it strange that they did not have the specs on this model. They probably have them but don't want people to know.
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Hey Blackraven, I have no input but am following your posts with keen interest as I am considering going with mono blocks also.
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You might be right
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Originally Posted by blackraven
I've been looking at different 2ch amps lately and was considering the outlaw monoblocks. They don't have much listed on their specs except that they are 200wpc at 8ohms and 300wpc at 4ohms. So I emailed tech support and they could not tell me if they were a true high current amp or what the amperage rating was or the dymnamic headroom specs. All they said was that they were rated at 20,000uF capacitance which tells me that they are not truly a quality high current amp. I found it strange that they did not have the specs on this model. They probably have them but don't want people to know.
My Monarchy SM-70 Pro monoblocks are only 120 watts @ 4ohm but have 60,000uF each.
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Audio Research amps which are made here in Minnesota about 30 minutes from meare 200,000uF's! 20,000uF's is kind of low but I guess for $325 monoblocks, you cant complain if you need alot of power 200-300wpc. The people on the outlaw forums really like the monoblocks and many are using them to drive magnepans with out any heat issue's which is impressive since the monoblocks dont use any cooling fans. I think that in itself says alot about them.
I don't have any issues with the rest of the outlaw line up. If you look at their 200wpc multichannel power amps, they weigh a wooping 90lbs.
Just out of interest, I mentioned that Audio Research amps are made here in Minnesota, but so are Magnepans in White bear lake 20 min from me and Anti Cables and Van Alstine Amps are made in Woodbury Minnesota where I live.
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My opinion
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Originally Posted by blackraven
Audio Research amps which are made here in Minnesota about 30 minutes from meare 200,000uF's! 20,000uF's is kind of low but I guess for $325 monoblocks, you cant complain if you need alot of power 200-300wpc. ....
b/r, it remains my opinion that you'd be better off prioritizing a serious amp upgrade ahead of the 1.6 => 3.6 move. I believe as much as anybody about the primacy of speakers, but you just won't get the best from either of these speakers with mid-fi, HT-oriented stuff like the Outlaws.
Contact C.C. Poon at Monarchy Audio. Tell him you're interested in a pair of SE-250's -- 500 watts @ 4ohms -- and ask him if he can suggest anything. The SE-250's have a nominal MSRP of $5000/pair but I'm pretty sure you can get them from C.C. from as little as half that. These amps are highly musical and will overall kick the sh!t out of anything in the $3k price range.
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I've been looking for used equipment and may buy a McIntosh amp. I really like Audio Research amps, maybe even one of their hybrids. I'm in no hurry so I'll just take my time till I find a good used amp. Thanks for the info and I'll be sure to check out Monarchy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
I've been looking at different 2ch amps lately and was considering the outlaw monoblocks. They don't have much listed on their specs except that they are 200wpc at 8ohms and 300wpc at 4ohms. So I emailed tech support and they could not tell me if they were a true high current amp or what the amperage rating was or the dymnamic headroom specs. All they said was that they were rated at 20,000uF capacitance which tells me that they are not truly a quality high current amp. I found it strange that they did not have the specs on this model. They probably have them but don't want people to know.
The specs you are seeking don't tell the whole picture about how an amp will perform. What really matters is the sound. Unless you have Apogee, B&W 8XX series or similar speakers that present a difficult impedance and phase angle, the Outlaws' 4-ohm rating is good enough for all but the most punishing loads. The manufacturer has developed a reputation as a brand that offers very good performance, conservative ratings, and value for the money. As an example, below are the output measurements of the Outlaw RR2150 2-channel receiver reviewed in Stereophile magazine. Is that "high current" enough ?
"The Outlaw RR2150 exceeded its 100Wpc specification by 1dB, delivering no less than 125W into 8 ohms (21dBW) at clipping, defined as 1% THD (fig.6). It gave 190W into 4 ohms (19.8dB), this 0.8dB higher than the specified 160W, and even managed 310W into 2 ohms with one channel driven (18.9dBW). That this $600 receiver managed to survive this high-power testing without blowing fuses or anything breaking is high praise. The RR2150 is a powerhouse!"
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Well lets put it this way. Outlaw cant or wont reveal total peak to peak amps of the monoblocks as well as dynamic headroom which concerns me. In addition 20,000uF's of capcitance is not that high when compared to some high end amps. Also the power rating at 4ohms is not even close to doubling the output a 8ohms. (200wpc at 8ohms vs 300wpc at 4ohms). Compare this to the B&K 200.2 amp which is 75 amps peak to peak and is 225wpc at 8ohms and 375wpc at 4ohms. You better believe that this amp is of higher current and has more headroom because it probably has a much higher capacitance for explosive dynamics with sudden demand of peaks in power. I'm not saying that the outlaw monoblocks cant do the job, they obviously have alot of power. I would just like to know the specs of what i'm buying, especially since many other manufacturers list these specs. And my magnepans soak up power. I've been to the Magnepan factory and spoke with the technical people there and they recommend as much power that you can feed them for the best sound. Thats why when you turn up the volume with these speakers the music gets fuller and why people complain that they dont play loud. As long as you have lots of clean power these speakers will soak it up with out blowing.
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Blackraven,
Where can i get those monoblocks for 325?
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Here ...
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Originally Posted by 2008xle
Blackraven,
Where can i get those monoblocks for 325?
Outlaw sells direct only. Here is the the link ...
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html
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In my more than 39 years in this hobby, including 11 years as a semi-pro DJ, I have owned more high-powered amps than I can count on both hands. Power supply capacitance has ranged all over the place, from a low of 11,800uf to as much as 131,600uf. In my experience, I can't say that raw capacitance alone ever determined how an amp performed. An amp could have modest capacitance but a generously spec'd transformer. One amp I owned was 330 watts per channel, true dual-mono with separate transformers for each channel, power supply caps of only 15,000uf per side yet with dynamic headroom of 2.5 dB. Talk about an effortless sounding amp, which in direct audition bettered some so-called "high-current" designs.
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If you don't have a lot of money to spend, consider a pair of Adcom monoblocks. I had a pair of GFA565s back when I didn't know a good amp from a bad one (which is why I don't have them anymore), but the specs on that amp were amazing: 300W into 8 ohms. I don't know what the uF rating was, but given Adcom's reputation, I doubt it was low.
Another monoblock I have that I simply love (although I will probably have to let go of it because of space/kids) is the PS Audio Classic 250. It rates conservatively at 250/400/600w, and while I don't know what it all means exactly (I'm no engineer), it has 12 separate 10,000uF capacitors in each unit. It also has great THD ratings, an input impedance of 30k Ohms, a slew rate of less than 150 V/microsecond, and high-quality power supplies (something that PS Audio is known for). What I do know about these amps is that they have effortlessly driven every speaker I've ever had in my house and have never broken down (I did replace the fuses). These amps are monsters and I paid a whopping $400 for the pair.
Speaking of PS Audio, I'm a big fan and I've owned many of their amps over the years. I also emailed them several times back when I was thinking of buying a pair of Maggies and they said that even their little Trios would be fine because of how well they handle low efficiency speakers. If you really want an amp that has eye-opening specs, will drive just about anything, costs 1/2 its retail price used, runs as cool as a cucumber, and gets great reviews, you should consider the GCC-500. It's truly an engineering marvel and sounds amazingly transparent.
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I wasnt trying to put down the outlaw monoblocks, I was just pointing out that outlaw wont release very many specs about them, thats all. Hell, the McIntosh MC162 amp I'm looking at is only 25,000uF's and 25 amps peak to peak. For the money at $325 a piece, they are a good bargain for some one with a limited budget or wanting to run rear channels.
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A used Classé CA-200 or CA-201 (112,800 uf caps) should work well with Maggies. Both models are the same electrically, only the cosmetics are different.
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I've been looking at those and the Bryston 4BSST amp as well. I'm trying to find something used. I still may pull the trigger on the McIntosh.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
Van Alstine Amps are made in Woodbury Minnesota where I live.
Run, do not walk, to Frank's and tell him you want to try one of his Fet Valve amps with your 1.6s for 30 days. You can take it back if you don't like it and you will be out for the cost of gas to drive it back to him.... but that won't happen.
You would not believe how well his big amps work with maggies. It is an extraordinary match. Of course, they match up very well with the ARC amplifiers also, and they are in your vicinity as well. If memory serves, Jim Winey used to have a set of ARC monos driving his maggie de jour at the factory.
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