• 01-25-2011, 07:27 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Nothing new, just a remainder
    Can you guys tell which one cost $1995, $1600, and $852?

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...dium/Amp31.jpg

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/.../500/Amp21.jpg

    http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/...500/MS300B.jpg
    3rd pic edited.


    I'm not trying to be downer. Like I said this is nothing new, just a remainder.
    Have fun and enjoy your music.

    JRA
  • 01-25-2011, 07:39 PM
    RGA
    The first two look like Grant Fidelity amps - maybe all three. As for prices who knows. I'm surprised any would be under a grand given they're using 300Bs but maybe one is a closeout model.

    If I had any money I'd probably buy some GF amps myself - I really wanted to keep the PM 150 monoblocks but ...
  • 01-25-2011, 07:56 PM
    jrhymeammo
    All 3 are "different" like:

    Crown Jewel & Shelter
    or
    Lexicon & OPPO
  • 01-25-2011, 08:19 PM
    harley .guy07
    This is something I have seen before and we are probably not about to see the end of it soon. When a company can rap there hands around a product that is ready made and engineered that sounds good and can make money on it especially is they up the price the folks in the economics end of the company hold there shot glasses. Audiophiles like us are getting to be a rare breed that we pay enough attention to these details to pick up on this kind of thing and bring it to life where most people would buy any of these units and be happy not thinking that the same thing exists for cheaper elsewhere. I study every purchase I make and make sure that I am getting what I pay for and there is not another version somewhere out there for less money. With that being said most of the brands that I have bought do not re badge with the exception of the Oppo Lexicon thing which to me is more to the bad on Lexicons part than Oppo. I try myself to look for unique products that do not have copies around not to say anything against the sound quality of the ones that do because I have not heard them.
  • 01-25-2011, 08:22 PM
    harley .guy07
    Another thing to consider is that tubes have come back in a big way and a lot of companies aren't geared up to produce these products or have engineers that specialize in these departments even though by circuit theory they are some of the most simplistic of designs but they would rather do this than spend money on r & d and develop basically the same thing that already exists with these units. I am not saying I totally agree with it but I see the business logic.
  • 01-25-2011, 08:28 PM
    atomicAdam
    the second and third photo is of the same thing - so it isn't a fair question.
  • 01-25-2011, 08:37 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by atomicAdam
    the second and third photo is of the same thing - so it isn't a fair question.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they are all the same.
    Did I mix up some pics? I've edited the 3rd pic.

    1st Pic
    Grant Fidelity
    ($1600)

    2nd Pic
    Yaqin
    ($852)

    3rd Pic
    Markhill
    ($1995)

    JRA
  • 01-25-2011, 08:47 PM
    atomicAdam
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they are all the same.
    Did I mix up some pics? I've edited the 3rd pic.

    1st Pic
    Grant Fidelity
    ($1600)

    2nd Pic
    Yaqin
    ($852)

    3rd Pic
    Markhill
    ($1995)

    JRA


    You might have to look a little closer - while the 1st is similar to the other two it isn't the same. Transformers are different, LCD display, and other dissimilarities.
  • 01-25-2011, 09:13 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Where is Waldo
    I guess I need to look into this a bit more to see if I'm comparing apples to oranges.

    LCD screen, and tube cage seem a bit different, but I was under the impression that they all used the same Japanese transformers. Who knows, maybe the one by Markhill is made with Hashimoto Tranny and others are made with generic transformers.
  • 01-25-2011, 09:28 PM
    atomicAdam
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I guess I need to look into this a bit more to see if I'm comparing apples to oranges.

    LCD screen, and tube cage seem a bit different, but I was under the impression that they all used the same Japanese transformers. Who knows, maybe the one by Markhill is made with Hashimoto Tranny and others are made with generic transformers.

    I'm just going off of what I see. But besides the LCD and the dissimilar shaped transformers - i'd be everything is basically the same.

    Now is a remote and LCD display worth several hundred more? .... not sure.
  • 01-26-2011, 07:46 AM
    GMichael
    They all produce sounds that only dogs can hear.



    (Sorry, couldn't stop myself)
  • 01-26-2011, 08:53 PM
    RGA
    The thing with the Chinese made amps is there are some that are pretty much exactly the same and others that look the same but are not. For instance Jungsun, Yaqin, have amps that are similar to the Grant Fidelity amps but are not quite the same. Though Jungsun does make some GF amps.

    The tube Dac 09 I reviewed had identical amps from other makers on the market for less money but you had to ship them direct from Asia (no warranty) so while it is cheaper there is no protection. Servicing and a middle company does add to the cost. But if it's a risk you want to take to save $50 then it's up to you.

    Jungsun also makes amps for other bigger name audio companies at higher price points - so does Shengya.

    It's not that they're old designs - it's just that there are many companies selling the same or very similar amps - with a different silk screen on the front of the box. But this is true of many items - laptops for example. HP, DELL, ACER, Toshiba Sony Apple. None of these have a single part that is made by any of them (and yes that includes apple so don't bother). All of them use the same bits and pieces made by companies you've never heard of - read this http://www.xoticpc.com/who-really-ma...cret-a-47.html

    Very few audio companies talk about internal parts - VERY FEW. They talk about features and processing or woofers, or tweeters but rarely the parts they use inside and if one believes that preamps and CD players sound different then the reason they sound different is not because of the logo on the front but because of the transformers, the kind of sampling the player uses, the capacitors, the wires, the resisters, the voice coils, the magnets, the cabinetry, the crossover, etc.

    Parts matter - so even if you have two amps that look exactly the same and use the same tubes and is the exact same design - like the Audio Note Ongaku and the Audio Note Jinro - the difference is the former uses better parts - it sounds better despite everything else being exactly the same. Same with the speakers - speaker cabinets the same one has better magnets results in better sound sometimes dramatically better sound.